Some who don't Pastor, or once Pastored....

[Tarheel Baptist]

Captive audience?

Yes, captive.  Sure, they don't have to show up.  But once they're there, they are not allowed to do anything but sit there and listen.  That makes them a captive audience. 

Since today's churchgoers are anywhere from 20-60% unbelievers, depending on who you ask, it's no surprise they'd keep showing up even if you're teaching crap.  They wouldn't know the difference.  And it doesn't really matter to them, anyway.  They probably forget everything you've said minutes after they leave (assuming they were paying attention to begin with). 

Which brings us back to one of the big problems with today's "go to church" model.  Instead of the Biblical purpose, it has turned into a twisted outreach program -- twisted because instead of evangelizing to the masses, you're outreaching to the same group of unbelievers week after week who aren't there to get saved.  They're there to "go to church".

You remind me of Balaam....

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

If only Mater could find a way to get a captive audience.....

 

[subllibrm]

Since this seems to be a catch all thread:

Why do pastors study and prepare for 3 lessons per week and get paid exponentially more than his hired teachers who study and prepare for 7 lessons per day, five days per week?

Well, normally, they also do the administration of the church duties, visit the sick, perform funerals and weddings, visit members and visitors, etc, etc, etc.

Wouldn't those be deacon duties?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Since this seems to be a catch all thread:

Why do pastors study and prepare for 3 lessons per week and get paid exponentially more than his hired teachers who study and prepare for 7 lessons per day, five days per week?

Well, normally, they also do the administration of the church duties, visit the sick, perform funerals and weddings, visit members and visitors, etc, etc, etc.

I have been on pastoral staff in 6 states.  Never did I have a pastor in my life that led in these duties.  Sad, isn't it?

I'm trying to find scriptural support for hiring (salary and benefits) pastors to visit the sick, perform funerals and weddings, visit members and visitors, etc, etc, etc.  Can anyone help me find it?

Find a captive audience...but you'd better bring chains and padlocks! 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

Get a real job.  Let us know how that works out for you. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Since this seems to be a catch all thread:

Why do pastors study and prepare for 3 lessons per week and get paid exponentially more than his hired teachers who study and prepare for 7 lessons per day, five days per week?

Well, normally, they also do the administration of the church duties, visit the sick, perform funerals and weddings, visit members and visitors, etc, etc, etc.

I have been on pastoral staff in 6 states.  Never did I have a pastor in my life that led in these duties.  Sad, isn't it?

I'm trying to find scriptural support for hiring (salary and benefits) pastors to visit the sick, perform funerals and weddings, visit members and visitors, etc, etc, etc.  Can anyone help me find it?

I don't know if you are home church or elder church.  I don't really have a big problem with either of those.  I understand the viewpoint and appreciate those who hold to it.  I also understand the desire for a hired pastor who dedicates his life to pastoral duties rather than the pursuit of business.  He trusts in the Lord to care for the needs of himself and his family.  He is simply one of us who dedicates his life to the study of the Word for the edification of himself and the rest of us.  In response, we care for his needs as we see them.  The concept comes from the Levitical priesthood (which has been done away) and the offering Paul collected for other churches (different, I know, but the line is drawn).  I personally don't have a problem with any of these opinions.

I do have a HUGE problem with the guy who believes himself to be God's mouthpiece for his (lower case intended) people who lives in extravagance and complains to his people about his heavy workload to prepare and deliver 3 sermons.  This deceiver tells the people how fortunate they are to have him, how they are so blessed because he prays for them and will direct their lives because he knows God's will for them.  This deceiver will then tell his men that they need to give him an all expenses paid vacation for he and his wife (since his kids are now grown and married) so that he can rest (Just try to find that concept in the Bible) from the weariness of studying the Bible, preaching and praying for them.  Oh, and try to find this guy when you need a friend to talk with - good luck - his schedule will keep him from any actual pastoral care.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I also understand the desire for a hired pastor who dedicates his life to pastoral duties rather than the pursuit of business.  He trusts in the Lord to care for the needs of himself and his family. 

Yeah, we who have real jobs don't trust in the Lord for the needs of ourselves and our families.  We do it all ourselves.  We are the masters of our own destiny!!!  And it's only because we're not pastors!!!!!111! 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I also understand the desire for a hired pastor who dedicates his life to pastoral duties rather than the pursuit of business.  He trusts in the Lord to care for the needs of himself and his family. 

Yeah, we who have real jobs don't trust in the Lord for the needs of ourselves and our families.  We do it all ourselves.  We are the masters of our own destiny!!!  And it's only because we're not pastors!!!!!111! 

I get it, I get it.  poorly worded.  You do understand where they are coming from though, and so do I.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I also understand the desire for a hired pastor who dedicates his life to pastoral duties rather than the pursuit of business.  He trusts in the Lord to care for the needs of himself and his family. 

Yeah, we who have real jobs don't trust in the Lord for the needs of ourselves and our families.  We do it all ourselves.  We are the masters of our own destiny!!!  And it's only because we're not pastors!!!!!111! 

I get it, I get it.  poorly worded.  You do understand where they are coming from though, and so do I.

No.  Seriously.  I understand where they think they're coming from.  But we all have to trust the Lord for our needs. 

 

[rsc2a]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

And how do you propose to measure success?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

And how do you propose to measure success?

I wouldn't propose a measure of success....let us know how it works out for you.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

And how do you propose to measure success?

The number of notches on your soul-winning belt.  Oh, wait, no, that's outreach again. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

And how do you propose to measure success?

The number of notches on your soul-winning belt.  Oh, wait, no, that's outreach again.

Arguing against a position you wish I held.... :

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

Get a real job.  Let us know how that works out for you.

When I came to the church I Pastor (1982), there were about 12 people meeting in a home. I worked painting and cleaning houses for a college friend's rental agency. We also sold our furniture on 2 occasions to pay the rent and buy groceries for our 2 children. I went out almost every night and Saturdays visiting and contacting people about our new ministry.

Go thou and do likewise and let us know how it works out for you.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

Get a real job.  Let us know how that works out for you.

When I came to the church I Pastor (1982), there were about 12 people meeting in a home. I worked painting and cleaning houses for a college friend's rental agency. We also sold our furniture on 2 occasions to pay the rent and buy groceries for our 2 children. I went out almost every night and Saturdays visiting and contacting people about our new ministry.

Go thou and do likewise and let us know how it works out for you.

This story can't possibly be true.  Home churches never amount to anything. 

...or...

So you came in and spoiled a home church?  Way to go. 

 

[prophet]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

Get a real job.  Let us know how that works out for you.

When I came to the church I Pastor (1982), there were about 12 people meeting in a home. I worked painting and cleaning houses for a college friend's rental agency. We also sold our furniture on 2 occasions to pay the rent and buy groceries for our 2 children. I went out almost every night and Saturdays visiting and contacting people about our new ministry.

Go thou and do likewise and let us know how it works out for you.

Been there, done that, left it in the hands of the elders I ordained, started a new one the next month.
Repeat.

 

[subllibrm]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

Get a real job.  Let us know how that works out for you.

When I came to the church I Pastor (1982), there were about 12 people meeting in a home. I worked painting and cleaning houses for a college friend's rental agency. We also sold our furniture on 2 occasions to pay the rent and buy groceries for our 2 children. I went out almost every night and Saturdays visiting and contacting people about our new ministry.

Go thou and do likewise and let us know how it works out for you.

Been there, done that, left it in the hands of the elders I ordained, started a new one the next month.
Repeat.

^this works for me^

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

For those who would like to tell pastors how to pastor or ridicule them because they do Pastor, I'd suggest this:

Since there is no 'call' to pastor, just start a church this week...around your kitchen table.
Gather a captive audience and see what you have or what is accomplished in 6 months or 6 years.

It's easy to do...anybody can do it!
LET US KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU....

Get a real job.  Let us know how that works out for you.

When I came to the church I Pastor (1982), there were about 12 people meeting in a home. I worked painting and cleaning houses for a college friend's rental agency. We also sold our furniture on 2 occasions to pay the rent and buy groceries for our 2 children. I went out almost every night and Saturdays visiting and contacting people about our new ministry.

Go thou and do likewise and let us know how it works out for you.

Been there, done that, left it in the hands of the elders I ordained, started a new one the next month.
Repeat.

We've also been involved in planting about 150 churches over the years...and counting.

 

[subllibrm]

We've also been involved in planting about 150 churches over the years...and counting.

How many still going?