Standards of dress

[Bruh]

Raider: I know I am quoting Paul   when he says, "Women adorn themselves in modest apparel".  From your posts I take it you are saying that being appropriate trumps that?

You make the all too common mistake to take scripture at its plain sense, using reasonable hermeneutic principles.

And, you begin by assuming that Scripture is Scripture.

Rookie mistakes!

When mean like this?

"not with broided hair,"

Please, explain.  Thanks!

 

[cast.sheep]

This topic is a perfect example of how good Christian people have different interpretations on the exact same verse in the Bible. Who's right? Who's wrong? I think it is an issue of the heart.  If people can see Jesus in me, and it is the thing they notice when being around me/speaking with me, and my clothing doesn't distract them from seeing Him in me, then who cares what I'm wearing??? We want to have lists of specific items of clothing that are YES and NO and it doesn't work that way!  Just because a woman has on a skirt doesn't mean that people can see Jesus in her! Just because she has on pants doesn't mean people CAN'T see Jesus in her!  A woman in white capris pants and a pink top changed my life forever....and she never said a word to me.  She was talking to my mother and I SAW Jesus in her.  She had on pants...and I had on a skirt.  And I was a MESS. And she had it all together. 

Further, teaching little boys from birth that a woman wearing pants is "immodest" is programming him to believe that when he sees a woman in pants/shorts/etc. it is perfectly natural/he is SUPPOSED to have sexual thoughts or he isn't a "red-blooded man". That is just WRONG. It is his OWN personal responsibility to keep his mind clean no matter what a woman is wearing.  We are guilty of programming our own boys to be perverts.  I feel sorry for guys that were brought up like that.  I really do.  I have come to realize that the only people who really care about this issue are the ones that were taught to judge based on what someone is wearing.  It is a LEARNED behavior.  It's not natural. 

Why don't we just teach our kids HOLINESS?  If we have a right relationship with the Lord, the rest takes care of itself! Inner beauty trumps outerwear.  Inner holiness trumps everything else that Satan throws at us.  I honestly doubt that any thirsty person really cares what a woman is wearing who is handing her a cup of water, a loving hug, and the gift of Jesus. 

Just sayin'......

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Raider: I know I am quoting Paul   when he says, "Women adorn themselves in modest apparel".  From your posts I take it you are saying that being appropriate trumps that?

You make the all too common mistake to take scripture at its plain sense, using reasonable hermeneutic principles.

And, you begin by assuming that Scripture is Scripture.

Rookie mistakes!

When mean like this?

"not with broided hair,"

Please, explain.  Thanks!

No, that's not what I was referring to....rather I was making a general statement, using sarcasm, as to what passes for Biblical literacy on the FFF. 

But to your specific reference, I agree mostly with John Chrysostom, one of the early church fathers, who wrote:
“And what then is modest apparel?”  Commenting on this passage.  “Such as covers them completely and decently, and not with superfluous ornaments, for the one is decent and the other is not.  What?  Do you approach God to pray with braided hair and ornaments of gold?  Are you come to a ball?  To a marriage feast?  To a carnival?  There such costly things might have been seasonable.  Here not one of them is wanted.  You are come to pray, to ask pardon for your sins, to plead for your offenses, beseeching the Lord and hoping to render Him propitious to you.  Away with such hypocrisy.”

 

[cast.sheep]

Raider: I know I am quoting Paul   when he says, "Women adorn themselves in modest apparel".  From your posts I take it you are saying that being appropriate trumps that?

You make the all too common mistake to take scripture at its plain sense, using reasonable hermeneutic principles.

And, you begin by assuming that Scripture is Scripture.

Rookie mistakes!

When mean like this?

"not with broided hair,"

Please, explain.  Thanks!

No, that's not what I was referring to....rather I was making a general statement, using sarcasm, as to what passes for Biblical literacy on the FFF. 

But to your specific reference, I agree mostly with John Chrysostom, one of the early church fathers, who wrote:
“And what then is modest apparel?”  Commenting on this passage.  “Such as covers them completely and decently, and not with superfluous ornaments, for the one is decent and the other is not.  What?  Do you approach God to pray with braided hair and ornaments of gold?  Are you come to a ball?  To a marriage feast?  To a carnival?  There such costly things might have been seasonable.  Here not one of them is wanted.  You are come to pray, to ask pardon for your sins, to plead for your offenses, beseeching the Lord and hoping to render Him propitious to you.  Away with such hypocrisy.”

This is good.  I like the word "decent" too. 

 

[RAIDER]

This topic is a perfect example of how good Christian people have different interpretations on the exact same verse in the Bible. Who's right? Who's wrong? I think it is an issue of the heart.  If people can see Jesus in me, and it is the thing they notice when being around me/speaking with me, and my clothing doesn't distract them from seeing Him in me, then who cares what I'm wearing??? We want to have lists of specific items of clothing that are YES and NO and it doesn't work that way!  Just because a woman has on a skirt doesn't mean that people can see Jesus in her! Just because she has on pants doesn't mean people CAN'T see Jesus in her!  A woman in white capris pants and a pink top changed my life forever....and she never said a word to me.  She was talking to my mother and I SAW Jesus in her.  She had on pants...and I had on a skirt.  And I was a MESS. And she had it all together. 


Why don't we just teach our kids HOLINESS?  If we have a right relationship with the Lord, the rest takes care of itself! Inner beauty trumps outerwear.  Inner holiness trumps everything else that Satan throws at us.  I honestly doubt that any thirsty person really cares what a woman is wearing who is handing her a cup of water, a loving hug, and the gift of Jesus. 

Just sayin'......

I absolutely respect what you are saying.  Any time the subject of dress comes up there are those who immediately turn the topic to "weightier matters".  I agree that the issues of the heart are the most important.

One of my best friends attends a non-IFB Baptist church.  He and his family love the Lord and do much to help others.  He has a heart for sharing the Gospel.  His wife and daughters wear pants.  They attend country music concerts.  The teen and married girls wear shorts.  They will skip church to attend a professional baseball game.  I could go on.

My wife and I have often spoke about how much this family loves the Lord.  We have spoken about how much they do for the Lord and others compared to some other friends we have who dress modestly, are faithful to church, and have stricter music standards.

While I believe we would all consider the first group of friends stronger on what we would call the "weightier matters".  But, on the other hand, does this mean that their lack of standards is pleasing to God?  I don't believe so.  I believe both are important. 

Many of us on the HAC FFF have seen people who are seemingly "clean" on the outside turn out to be wicked on the inside.  Because of this it seems to embitter many toward those who hold to standards of dress and entertainment.  The inside and outside should be clean, holy, and pleasing to God.

 

[Bruh]

This topic is a perfect example of how good Christian people have different interpretations on the exact same verse in the Bible. Who's right? Who's wrong? I think it is an issue of the heart.  If people can see Jesus in me, and it is the thing they notice when being around me/speaking with me, and my clothing doesn't distract them from seeing Him in me, then who cares what I'm wearing??? We want to have lists of specific items of clothing that are YES and NO and it doesn't work that way!  Just because a woman has on a skirt doesn't mean that people can see Jesus in her! Just because she has on pants doesn't mean people CAN'T see Jesus in her!  A woman in white capris pants and a pink top changed my life forever....and she never said a word to me.  She was talking to my mother and I SAW Jesus in her.  She had on pants...and I had on a skirt.  And I was a MESS. And she had it all together. 


Why don't we just teach our kids HOLINESS?  If we have a right relationship with the Lord, the rest takes care of itself! Inner beauty trumps outerwear.  Inner holiness trumps everything else that Satan throws at us.  I honestly doubt that any thirsty person really cares what a woman is wearing who is handing her a cup of water, a loving hug, and the gift of Jesus. 

Just sayin'......

I absolutely respect what you are saying.  Any time the subject of dress comes up there are those who immediately turn the topic to "weightier matters".  I agree that the issues of the heart are the most important.

One of my best friends attends a non-IFB Baptist church.  He and his family love the Lord and do much to help others.  He has a heart for sharing the Gospel.  His wife and daughters wear pants.  They attend country music concerts.  The teen and married girls wear shorts.  They will skip church to attend a professional baseball game.  I could go on.

My wife and I have often spoke about how much this family loves the Lord.  We have spoken about how much they do for the Lord and others compared to some other friends we have who dress modestly, are faithful to church, and have stricter music standards.

While I believe we would all consider the first group of friends stronger on what we would call the "weightier matters".  But, on the other hand, does this mean that their lack of standards is pleasing to God?  I don't believe so.  I believe both are important. 

Many of us on the HAC FFF have seen people who are seemingly "clean" on the outside turn out to be wicked on the inside.  Because of this it seems to embitter many toward those who hold to standards of dress and entertainment.  The inside and outside should be clean, holy, and pleasing to God.

From what you say, it seems that the first couple walk with the Lord and are close to Him.

That being said, it seems that if this couple thought their "lack of standards" were displeasing to the Lord they would change.  Or, are they not as close as they appear therefore their "lack of standards"?

 

[RAIDER]

I absolutely respect what you are saying.  Any time the subject of dress comes up there are those who immediately turn the topic to "weightier matters".  I agree that the issues of the heart are the most important.

One of my best friends attends a non-IFB Baptist church.  He and his family love the Lord and do much to help others.  He has a heart for sharing the Gospel.  His wife and daughters wear pants.  They attend country music concerts.  The teen and married girls wear shorts.  They will skip church to attend a professional baseball game.  I could go on.

My wife and I have often spoke about how much this family loves the Lord.  We have spoken about how much they do for the Lord and others compared to some other friends we have who dress modestly, are faithful to church, and have stricter music standards.

While I believe we would all consider the first group of friends stronger on what we would call the "weightier matters".  But, on the other hand, does this mean that their lack of standards is pleasing to God?  I don't believe so.  I believe both are important. 

Many of us on the HAC FFF have seen people who are seemingly "clean" on the outside turn out to be wicked on the inside.  Because of this it seems to embitter many toward those who hold to standards of dress and entertainment.  The inside and outside should be clean, holy, and pleasing to God.

From what you say, it seems that the first couple walk with the Lord and are close to Him.

That being said, it seems that if this couple thought their "lack of standards" were displeasing to the Lord they would change.  Or, are they not as close as they appear therefore their "lack of standards"?

I am judging his love for the Lord by his care for others and his desire to spread the Gospel.  I have never discussed their standards with them.  Knowing the church that they attend it would not surprise me is they have never been taught about separated living.

Does that give you enough to fire back at me? 

 

[cast.sheep]

This topic is a perfect example of how good Christian people have different interpretations on the exact same verse in the Bible. Who's right? Who's wrong? I think it is an issue of the heart.  If people can see Jesus in me, and it is the thing they notice when being around me/speaking with me, and my clothing doesn't distract them from seeing Him in me, then who cares what I'm wearing??? We want to have lists of specific items of clothing that are YES and NO and it doesn't work that way!  Just because a woman has on a skirt doesn't mean that people can see Jesus in her! Just because she has on pants doesn't mean people CAN'T see Jesus in her!  A woman in white capris pants and a pink top changed my life forever....and she never said a word to me.  She was talking to my mother and I SAW Jesus in her.  She had on pants...and I had on a skirt.  And I was a MESS. And she had it all together. 


Why don't we just teach our kids HOLINESS?  If we have a right relationship with the Lord, the rest takes care of itself! Inner beauty trumps outerwear.  Inner holiness trumps everything else that Satan throws at us.  I honestly doubt that any thirsty person really cares what a woman is wearing who is handing her a cup of water, a loving hug, and the gift of Jesus. 

Just sayin'......

I absolutely respect what you are saying.  Any time the subject of dress comes up there are those who immediately turn the topic to "weightier matters".  I agree that the issues of the heart are the most important.

One of my best friends attends a non-IFB Baptist church.  He and his family love the Lord and do much to help others.  He has a heart for sharing the Gospel.  His wife and daughters wear pants.  They attend country music concerts.  The teen and married girls wear shorts.  They will skip church to attend a professional baseball game.  I could go on.

My wife and I have often spoke about how much this family loves the Lord.  We have spoken about how much they do for the Lord and others compared to some other friends we have who dress modestly, are faithful to church, and have stricter music standards.

While I believe we would all consider the first group of friends stronger on what we would call the "weightier matters".  But, on the other hand, does this mean that their lack of standards is pleasing to God?  I don't believe so.  I believe both are important. 

Many of us on the HAC FFF have seen people who are seemingly "clean" on the outside turn out to be wicked on the inside.  Because of this it seems to embitter many toward those who hold to standards of dress and entertainment.  The inside and outside should be clean, holy, and pleasing to God.

So, I ask this question in all sincerity:  Do you think the woman in capris pants and a white top was NOT pleasing the Lord because of what she had on?  All I know is that the woman's unspoken testimony changed my life.  This is something I experienced....not something someone told me about.  God used her in my life....unlike any other woman in the entire world.  It made absolutely no difference whatsoever that she wasn't wearing a skirt. 

Do you consider any female who wears pants, etc. as having a lack of standards?  This is a sincere question.

I don't believe that people who disagree on this issue are necessarily embittered.  But that is for another conversation.

 

[RAIDER]

So, I ask this question in all sincerity:  Do you think the woman in capris pants and a white top was NOT pleasing the Lord because of what she had on?  All I know is that the woman's unspoken testimony changed my life.  This is something I experienced....not something someone told me about.  God used her in my life....unlike any other woman in the entire world.  It made absolutely no difference whatsoever that she wasn't wearing a skirt. 

Do you consider any female who wears pants, etc. as having a lack of standards?  This is a sincere question.

I don't believe that people who disagree on this issue are necessarily embittered.  But that is for another conversation.

I did not see the woman you are describing so I cannot answer your question.  Regardless of what she was wearing, her testimony made a major difference in your life.  The Lord can use anyone anytime do do his will.

A woman that wears pants is a stinkin' Jezebel!! 

 

[Bruh]

So, I ask this question in all sincerity:  Do you think the woman in capris pants and a white top was NOT pleasing the Lord because of what she had on?  All I know is that the woman's unspoken testimony changed my life.  This is something I experienced....not something someone told me about.  God used her in my life....unlike any other woman in the entire world.  It made absolutely no difference whatsoever that she wasn't wearing a skirt. 

Do you consider any female who wears pants, etc. as having a lack of standards?  This is a sincere question.

I don't believe that people who disagree on this issue are necessarily embittered.  But that is for another conversation.

I did not see the woman you are describing so I cannot answer your question.  Regardless of what she was wearing, her testimony made a major difference in your life.  The Lord can use anyone anytime do do his will.

A woman that wears pants is a stinkin' Jezebel!! 

And wouldn't that be the whole argument?

I have never heard someone say, she changed my life because she had a dress on....Is the point.  LOL!!

 

[Bruh]

I absolutely respect what you are saying.  Any time the subject of dress comes up there are those who immediately turn the topic to "weightier matters".  I agree that the issues of the heart are the most important.

One of my best friends attends a non-IFB Baptist church.  He and his family love the Lord and do much to help others.  He has a heart for sharing the Gospel.  His wife and daughters wear pants.  They attend country music concerts.  The teen and married girls wear shorts.  They will skip church to attend a professional baseball game.  I could go on.

My wife and I have often spoke about how much this family loves the Lord.  We have spoken about how much they do for the Lord and others compared to some other friends we have who dress modestly, are faithful to church, and have stricter music standards.

While I believe we would all consider the first group of friends stronger on what we would call the "weightier matters".  But, on the other hand, does this mean that their lack of standards is pleasing to God?  I don't believe so.  I believe both are important. 

Many of us on the HAC FFF have seen people who are seemingly "clean" on the outside turn out to be wicked on the inside.  Because of this it seems to embitter many toward those who hold to standards of dress and entertainment.  The inside and outside should be clean, holy, and pleasing to God.

From what you say, it seems that the first couple walk with the Lord and are close to Him.

That being said, it seems that if this couple thought their "lack of standards" were displeasing to the Lord they would change.  Or, are they not as close as they appear therefore their "lack of standards"?

I am judging his love for the Lord by his care for others and his desire to spread the Gospel.  I have never discussed their standards with them.  Knowing the church that they attend it would not surprise me is they have never been taught about separated living.

Does that give you enough to fire back at me? 

LOL!!  Yes, plenty. 

 

[RAIDER]

And wouldn't that be the whole argument?

I have never heard someone say, she changed my life because she had a dress on....Is the point.  LOL!!

If you look through Scripture you will find that God used some people who had some major issues to do great things for Him.  That doesn't mean that God was ok with the wrong they were doing.  It means he used them in spite of it.

 

[cast.sheep]

So, I ask this question in all sincerity:  Do you think the woman in capris pants and a white top was NOT pleasing the Lord because of what she had on?  All I know is that the woman's unspoken testimony changed my life.  This is something I experienced....not something someone told me about.  God used her in my life....unlike any other woman in the entire world.  It made absolutely no difference whatsoever that she wasn't wearing a skirt. 

Do you consider any female who wears pants, etc. as having a lack of standards?  This is a sincere question.

I don't believe that people who disagree on this issue are necessarily embittered.  But that is for another conversation.

I did not see the woman you are describing so I cannot answer your question.  Regardless of what she was wearing, her testimony made a major difference in your life.  The Lord can use anyone anytime do do his will.


Ok...wait a doggone second...ha!  So, in your opinion, whether or not He was pleased with her is based on what she was wearing and NOT on the fact that her unspoken testimony reminded me of Jesus, His Son?  So...He could use her to do His will, because He can use anyone for anything, but He might not have been pleased with her because of what she had on?  I honestly do not understand the thinking here.  Please....explain. 

 

[cast.sheep]

And wouldn't that be the whole argument?

I have never heard someone say, she changed my life because she had a dress on....Is the point.  LOL!!

If you look through Scripture you will find that God used some people who had some major issues to do great things for Him.  That doesn't mean that God was ok with the wrong they were doing.  It means he used them in spite of it.

I am in shock and disbelief that you just likened a godly woman who wears pants to someone in the Bible who has "major issues" and was used anyway.  Seriously, Raider.  Is this how you truly feel?

 

[RAIDER]

So, I ask this question in all sincerity:  Do you think the woman in capris pants and a white top was NOT pleasing the Lord because of what she had on?  All I know is that the woman's unspoken testimony changed my life.  This is something I experienced....not something someone told me about.  God used her in my life....unlike any other woman in the entire world.  It made absolutely no difference whatsoever that she wasn't wearing a skirt. 

Do you consider any female who wears pants, etc. as having a lack of standards?  This is a sincere question.

I don't believe that people who disagree on this issue are necessarily embittered.  But that is for another conversation.

I did not see the woman you are describing so I cannot answer your question.  Regardless of what she was wearing, her testimony made a major difference in your life.  The Lord can use anyone anytime do do his will.


Ok...wait a doggone second...ha!  So, in your opinion, whether or not He was pleased with her is based on what she was wearing and NOT on the fact that her unspoken testimony reminded me of Jesus, His Son?  So...He could use her to do His will, because He can use anyone for anything, but He might not have been pleased with her because of what she had on?  I honestly do not understand the thinking here.  Please....explain.

I did not see what she was wearing.  The Lord obviously used her in a great way.  God can use anyone in any way that He pleases.  He uses people that are sold out to Him and people who have issues.  I praise God that He has used me many a time when I had things that were not right in my life.

 

[cast.sheep]

I am not attacking your personal convictions.  Please do not think that.  They are between you and God.  As you can imagine, I have very close friends and family who think all kinds of different ways than I do and I love them dearly.  Them not thinking like me has no bearing on my love for them.

I am just trying to get an understanding of this thinking that somehow God is not pleased with someone because of what they have on, despite their personal relationship with Him.

 

[cast.sheep]

So, I ask this question in all sincerity:  Do you think the woman in capris pants and a white top was NOT pleasing the Lord because of what she had on?  All I know is that the woman's unspoken testimony changed my life.  This is something I experienced....not something someone told me about.  God used her in my life....unlike any other woman in the entire world.  It made absolutely no difference whatsoever that she wasn't wearing a skirt. 

Do you consider any female who wears pants, etc. as having a lack of standards?  This is a sincere question.

I don't believe that people who disagree on this issue are necessarily embittered.  But that is for another conversation.

I did not see the woman you are describing so I cannot answer your question.  Regardless of what she was wearing, her testimony made a major difference in your life.  The Lord can use anyone anytime do do his will.


Ok...wait a doggone second...ha!  So, in your opinion, whether or not He was pleased with her is based on what she was wearing and NOT on the fact that her unspoken testimony reminded me of Jesus, His Son?  So...He could use her to do His will, because He can use anyone for anything, but He might not have been pleased with her because of what she had on?  I honestly do not understand the thinking here.  Please....explain.

I did not see what she was wearing.  The Lord obviously used her in a great way.  God can use anyone in any way that He pleases.  He uses people that are sold out to Him and people who have issues.  I praise God that He has used me many a time when I had things that were not right in my life.

Agreed.  Me too!  But you are dodging the question.  You don't have to see what she had on to answer the question. 

 

[RAIDER]

I am not attacking your personal convictions.  Please do not think that.  They are between you and God.  As you can imagine, I have very close friends and family who think all kinds of different ways than I do and I love them dearly.  Them not thinking like me has no bearing on my love for them.

I am just trying to get an understanding of this thinking that somehow God is not pleased with someone because of what they have on, despite their personal relationship with Him.

Is God pleased with me if I pick up a poor person on the street and take him to the mission for a meal?  Is God pleased with me if I am drunk while I do it?

 

[brainisengaged]

So, I ask this question in all sincerity:  Do you think the woman in capris pants and a white top was NOT pleasing the Lord because of what she had on?  All I know is that the woman's unspoken testimony changed my life.  This is something I experienced....not something someone told me about.  God used her in my life....unlike any other woman in the entire world.  It made absolutely no difference whatsoever that she wasn't wearing a skirt. 

Do you consider any female who wears pants, etc. as having a lack of standards?  This is a sincere question.

I don't believe that people who disagree on this issue are necessarily embittered.  But that is for another conversation.

I did not see the woman you are describing so I cannot answer your question.  Regardless of what she was wearing, her testimony made a major difference in your life.  The Lord can use anyone anytime do do his will.

A woman that wears pants is a stinkin' Jezebel!! 

And wouldn't that be the whole argument?

I have never heard someone say, she changed my life because she had a dress on....Is the point.  LOL!!

STANDING OVATION TO BRUH!!!!!

 

[cast.sheep]

I am not attacking your personal convictions.  Please do not think that.  They are between you and God.  As you can imagine, I have very close friends and family who think all kinds of different ways than I do and I love them dearly.  Them not thinking like me has no bearing on my love for them.

I am just trying to get an understanding of this thinking that somehow God is not pleased with someone because of what they have on, despite their personal relationship with Him.

Is God pleased with me if I pick up a poor person on the street and take him to the mission for a meal?  Is God pleased with me if I am drunk while I do it?

That is not the question.  This is the question:

So, in your opinion, whether or not He was pleased with her is based on what she was wearing and NOT on the fact that her unspoken testimony reminded me of Jesus, His Son?  So...He could use her to do His will, because He can use anyone for anything, but He might not have been pleased with her because of what she had on?