Standards of dress

[RAIDER]

Because you have been surrounded for many years with hypocrites, you think that anyone who talks about standards is acting in the same way.  When I see a gal in short shorts and a tight shirt I do not say, "There goes someone who must be a Christian".  And BTW, no one else does either.  I do not criticize and judge her.  I do not use her as an illustration on Sunday.  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is a Christian?" I would say, "I don't know".  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is displaying the purity of Christ? I would say, "No".  Am I being judgmental?   

 

[cast.sheep]

Because you have been surrounded for many years with hypocrites, you think that anyone who talks about standards is acting in the same way.  When I see a gal in short shorts and a tight shirt I do not say, "There goes someone who must be a Christian".  And BTW, no one else does either.  I do not criticize and judge her.  I do not use her as an illustration on Sunday.  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is a Christian?" I would say, "I don't know".  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is displaying the purity of Christ? I would say, "No".  Am I being judgmental? 

RAIDER, you do not really know me.  The truth is that I do NOT think that anyone who talks about standards is a hypocrite!  Oh my goodness...I do not think that AT ALL!  I have NEVER considered you a hypocrite.  EVER.  I believe you are a good man who has very high "standards" for yourself and your family and have decided that everyone else should have those same standards.  And I believe you are very genuine with good intentions.  Do you realize that I have high standards too????  Yes, I wear pants but that doesn't mean I have NO standards!  Mine are just slightly different from yours.  I BELIEVE in having standards.  Otherwise, it's "anything goes"!  I just don't believe that my standards have to be your standards...or anyone else's.  I believe that God works on people from the inside out and we, as humans, do NOT know what that entails.  Only God knows. That is my whole argument.  And to judge someone's inside based on what clothing is on their outside is just not right, in my opinion.  I think actions are much more telling than clothing.  But, as you have pointed out, even then...when it comes right down to it...we just don't know. 

So....I will concentrate on MY relationship with God and whatever that does or doesn't entail, and everyone else can work on theirs.  And I am going to do my best not to judge them because of what I see.  Because I can only see the outside. 

This whole discussion has challenged me to concentrate on not being judgmental about anything.  I will be, because I am human.  But, I am going to work on it. 

 

[cast.sheep]

Because you have been surrounded for many years with hypocrites, you think that anyone who talks about standards is acting in the same way.  When I see a gal in short shorts and a tight shirt I do not say, "There goes someone who must be a Christian".  And BTW, no one else does either.  I do not criticize and judge her.  I do not use her as an illustration on Sunday.  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is a Christian?" I would say, "I don't know".  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is displaying the purity of Christ? I would say, "No".  Am I being judgmental? 

The difference between you and me is that when I see a girl in short shorts and a tight shirt I don't think anything.  I don't know if she's a Christian or not.  She could be.  She might not be.  I don't make that decision based on what she's wearing.  And when I see a girl in a long skirt and modest top I don't think "Oh...she must be a Christian!".  About the only thing I might think is "Oh crap!  Is there a HAC group in town????"  Judgmental...I know!  Ha!

 

[RAIDER]

Because you have been surrounded for many years with hypocrites, you think that anyone who talks about standards is acting in the same way.  When I see a gal in short shorts and a tight shirt I do not say, "There goes someone who must be a Christian".  And BTW, no one else does either.  I do not criticize and judge her.  I do not use her as an illustration on Sunday.  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is a Christian?" I would say, "I don't know".  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is displaying the purity of Christ? I would say, "No".  Am I being judgmental? 

RAIDER, you do not really know me.  The truth is that I do NOT think that anyone who talks about standards is a hypocrite!  Oh my goodness...I do not think that AT ALL!  I have NEVER considered you a hypocrite.  EVER.  I believe you are a good man who has very high "standards" for yourself and your family and have decided that everyone else should have those same standards.  And I believe you are very genuine with good intentions.  Do you realize that I have high standards too????  Yes, I wear pants but that doesn't mean I have NO standards!  Mine are just slightly different from yours.  I BELIEVE in having standards.  Otherwise, it's "anything goes"!  I just don't believe that my standards have to be your standards...or anyone else's.  I believe that God works on people from the inside out and we, as humans, do NOT know what that entails.  Only God knows. That is my whole argument.  And to judge someone's inside based on what clothing is on their outside is just not right, in my opinion.  I think actions are much more telling than clothing.  But, as you have pointed out, even then...when it comes right down to it...we just don't know. 

So....I will concentrate on MY relationship with God and whatever that does or doesn't entail, and everyone else can work on theirs.  And I am going to do my best not to judge them because of what I see.  Because I can only see the outside. 

This whole discussion has challenged me to concentrate on not being judgmental about anything.  I will be, because I am human.  But, I am going to work on it.

I believe I know about where you stand.  I guarantee you are considered ultra-conservative by those around you.  I absolutely do not believe that everyone should have my standards.  I have several very dear friends who have higher dress and music standards than I do.  I fail in so many areas that are more important than dress. 

This thread is for each of us to "argue" and defend our positions.  In doing so it does not mean that we are looking down on those with whom we don't agree.  I am amazed that these types of threads turn into a "you think your way is the only way and you think you're better and all we need to worry about is what's on the inside".

Would you go to the local gym and play volleyball in a pair of short skin tight shorts and a tight shirt?  I don't believe you would.  You should be able to post that conviction on this thread.  I'm not asking you if you are judgmental toward someone who dresses like that.  I am asking you if you would dress that way or if you would allow your girls to dress that way?

 

 

[rsc2a]

Says the guy comparing a girl in a halter top to a drunk....

 

[RAIDER]

Because you have been surrounded for many years with hypocrites, you think that anyone who talks about standards is acting in the same way.  When I see a gal in short shorts and a tight shirt I do not say, "There goes someone who must be a Christian".  And BTW, no one else does either.  I do not criticize and judge her.  I do not use her as an illustration on Sunday.  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is a Christian?" I would say, "I don't know".  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is displaying the purity of Christ? I would say, "No".  Am I being judgmental? 

The difference between you and me is that when I see a girl in short shorts and a tight shirt I don't think anything.  I don't know if she's a Christian or not.  She could be.  She might not be.  I don't make that decision based on what she's wearing.  And when I see a girl in a long skirt and modest top I don't think "Oh...she must be a Christian!".  About the only thing I might think is "Oh crap!  Is there a HAC group in town????"  Judgmental...I know!  Ha!

When I see that gal I don't think anything either.  That's why I posted what I did above.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Everybody judges others every single day. It is a physical function of the brain. When one goes to a strange place in unfamiliar surroundings, it is natural to be suspect of the crowd in general, to hold your small children tighter because there is fear of the unknown. Nothing wrong or sinful in that.

In addition, to see a guy lying on a park bench, it takes "judging" him to see if he is sleeping, has a medical issue or is generally homeless. Again, nothing wrong with that. When we say someone is funny, or quiet, we are judging their personalities. Human nature.

The issue in judging is not a matter of these things but rather what we determine about others' character/morality/spirituality as being right in accordance to our personal standards or morality as we see it. Sometimes these lines can be blurred simply because we are not aware of the details about the individual(s) or situation(s).

I remember Tim Lee telling the story about him being confronted by a faith healer. The healer saw him in the wheelchair (he had his prosthetic legs attached) and judged him by telling him if he had enough faith, he could walk. That was when Tim revealed both his legs were prosthetic, the guy got mad, mumbled and took off. In essence, that faith healer "judged" him as having a lack of faith when he didn't know the whole story.

We do that with others who are not like us. When we decide to determine another's moral code based on a limited supply of information and determine that person comes up short, we are wrongfully judging. That might mean telling a gay teen that he can't be loving Jesus because he is gay.  That might be grabbing one's purse a little tighter while passing a minority in the aisle of a grocery store. That might mean walking on the other side of the street to avoid a street person. That might mean rejecting someone as a heretic for reading the same Bible and coming to different doctrinal conclusions.

I could go on but I hope I made the point that all judging isn't bad but when we set our moral code as the single truth and expect others to be held to that, we are wrong in doing so. IMHO.

 

[RAIDER]

cast.sheep, I am going to have to get your way during a vacation.  I would love to see you and your husband again.  Don't be surprised when I show up at your door in my Speedo. 

 

[cast.sheep]

Because you have been surrounded for many years with hypocrites, you think that anyone who talks about standards is acting in the same way.  When I see a gal in short shorts and a tight shirt I do not say, "There goes someone who must be a Christian".  And BTW, no one else does either.  I do not criticize and judge her.  I do not use her as an illustration on Sunday.  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is a Christian?" I would say, "I don't know".  If you asked me, "Do you think that gal is displaying the purity of Christ? I would say, "No".  Am I being judgmental? 

RAIDER, you do not really know me.  The truth is that I do NOT think that anyone who talks about standards is a hypocrite!  Oh my goodness...I do not think that AT ALL!  I have NEVER considered you a hypocrite.  EVER.  I believe you are a good man who has very high "standards" for yourself and your family and have decided that everyone else should have those same standards.  And I believe you are very genuine with good intentions.  Do you realize that I have high standards too????  Yes, I wear pants but that doesn't mean I have NO standards!  Mine are just slightly different from yours.  I BELIEVE in having standards.  Otherwise, it's "anything goes"!  I just don't believe that my standards have to be your standards...or anyone else's.  I believe that God works on people from the inside out and we, as humans, do NOT know what that entails.  Only God knows. That is my whole argument.  And to judge someone's inside based on what clothing is on their outside is just not right, in my opinion.  I think actions are much more telling than clothing.  But, as you have pointed out, even then...when it comes right down to it...we just don't know. 

So....I will concentrate on MY relationship with God and whatever that does or doesn't entail, and everyone else can work on theirs.  And I am going to do my best not to judge them because of what I see.  Because I can only see the outside. 

This whole discussion has challenged me to concentrate on not being judgmental about anything.  I will be, because I am human.  But, I am going to work on it.

I believe I know about where you stand.  I guarantee you are considered ultra-conservative by those around you.  I absolutely do not believe that everyone should have my standards.  I have several very dear friends who have higher dress and music standards than I do.  I fail in so many areas that are more important than dress. 

This thread is for each of us to "argue" and defend our positions.  In doing so it does not mean that we are looking down on those with whom we don't agree.  I am amazed that these types of threads turn into a "you think your way is the only way and you think you're better and all we need to worry about is what's on the inside".

Would you go to the local gym and play volleyball in a pair of short skin tight shorts and a tight shirt?  I don't believe you would.  You should be able to post that conviction on this thread.  I'm not asking you if you are judgmental toward someone who dresses like that.  I am asking you if you would dress that way or if you would allow your girls to dress that way?

Really??? You are amazed?  I'm not.  Many of us came from churches/institutions that preached HARD on this subject.  Words like "whore" were used from the pulpit to describe a girl in pants.  We are traumatized....ha! 

No, I would not.  But, it's not because I have a conviction about it.  It's because I don't look good dressed like that.  ha!  My daughters are grown and married now, so I don't have any opinion on what they do.  Whether they do or not makes no difference to me.  When we were rearing them, we were at HAC so we had no decisions to make.  It was decided for us what they could and could not wear.  We supported the rules and adhered to them...for the most part.  We taught them to be appropriate for the occasion.  We didn't let our girls wear denim to church.  We felt it was too casual for church.  That was just us.  Didn't care at all what anyone else did, and our principles had nothing to do with conviction.  It was just our principle.  Not sure I would do that now, but that's what we did then.  I have a granddaughter now and, at this point, I am more concerned about her staying warm in the winter and cool in the summer than I am about what people think.  Ha!  I believe in modesty(my definition of modesty) and not a certain article of clothing.

 

[cast.sheep]

cast.sheep, I am going to have to get your way during a vacation.  I would love to see you and your husband again.  Don't be surprised when I show up at your door in my Speedo. 

We are NEVER giving you our address....ha!

 

[cast.sheep]

Everybody judges others every single day. It is a physical function of the brain. When one goes to a strange place in unfamiliar surroundings, it is natural to be suspect of the crowd in general, to hold your small children tighter because there is fear of the unknown. Nothing wrong or sinful in that.

In addition, to see a guy lying on a park bench, it takes "judging" him to see if he is sleeping, has a medical issue or is generally homeless. Again, nothing wrong with that. When we say someone is funny, or quiet, we are judging their personalities. Human nature.

The issue in judging is not a matter of these things but rather what we determine about others' character/morality/spirituality as being right in accordance to our personal standards or morality as we see it. Sometimes these lines can be blurred simply because we are not aware of the details about the individual(s) or situation(s).

I remember Tim Lee telling the story about him being confronted by a faith healer. The healer saw him in the wheelchair (he had his prosthetic legs attached) and judged him by telling him if he had enough faith, he could walk. That was when Tim revealed both his legs were prosthetic, the guy got mad, mumbled and took off. In essence, that faith healer "judged" him as having a lack of faith when he didn't know the whole story.

We do that with others who are not like us. When we decide to determine another's moral code based on a limited supply of information and determine that person comes up short, we are wrongfully judging. That might mean telling a gay teen that he can't be loving Jesus because he is gay.  That might be grabbing one's purse a little tighter while passing a minority in the aisle of a grocery store. That might mean walking on the other side of the street to avoid a street person. That might mean rejecting someone as a heretic for reading the same Bible and coming to different doctrinal conclusions.

I could go on but I hope I made the point that all judging isn't bad but when we set our moral code as the single truth and expect others to be held to that, we are wrong in doing so. IMHO.

^ what he said.

 

[RAIDER]

No, I would not.  But, it's not because I have a conviction about it.  It's because I don't look good dressed like that.

So, if you felt you looked "good" dressed like that you would have no problem with it?

 

[cast.sheep]

No, I would not.  But, it's not because I have a conviction about it.  It's because I don't look good dressed like that.

So, if you felt you looked "good" dressed like that you would have no problem with it?

My husband would have a problem with it, therefore,  I would not do it. 

 

[RAIDER]

cast.sheep, I am going to have to get your way during a vacation.  I would love to see you and your husband again.  Don't be surprised when I show up at your door in my Speedo. 

We are NEVER giving you our address....ha!

Hey, my wife and I took a trip to see Teri and Patriotic.  We also stopped by to see Dennis Usher.  On another occasion we made a trip to see Mrs.Strongbad from the old FFF.  You know who she is.    I've always wanted to see your part of the country.

 

[RAIDER]

No, I would not.  But, it's not because I have a conviction about it.  It's because I don't look good dressed like that.

So, if you felt you looked "good" dressed like that you would have no problem with it?

My husband would have a problem with it, therefore,  I would not do it.

If your husband did not have a problem with it would you do it? 

 

[cast.sheep]

It's really pretty here!  But, don't come calling in a Speedo.  Don't want to scare off the livestock.  Ha!

 

[cast.sheep]

No, I would not.  But, it's not because I have a conviction about it.  It's because I don't look good dressed like that.

So, if you felt you looked "good" dressed like that you would have no problem with it?
[/quot

My husband would have a problem with it, therefore,  I would not do it.

If your husband did not have a problem with it would you do it? 

No, I already told you...I wouldn't look good dressed like that!  Pay attention! 

 

[cast.sheep]

It's frustrating when you can't get a straight answer to a simple question, isn't it?  Ha!

 

[RAIDER]

It's frustrating when you can't get a straight answer to a simple question, isn't it?  Ha!

I'm just trying to get you to admit that you believe people should have some dress standards.  It's nothing to be ashamed of.  Because you think there should be some dress standards does not make you a hypocrite and does not make you judgmental.  You can voice your stance.  We are all friends here. 

 

[RAIDER]

It's really pretty here!  But, don't come calling in a Speedo.  Don't want to scare off the livestock.  Ha!

I can just see the expression on your husband's face if I showed up in a Speedo.