Steve Pettit: Should He Stay Or Should He Go?

[Ransom]

I have been a huge Jars of Clay fan and often use their hymn arrangements but I have heard some things about their lead singer that is very troublesome and disappointing.

I'm assuming you're talking about the same-sex marriage controversy Dan Haseltine kindled back in 2014? This is the post that basically touched it off, after a badly-worded tweet that mistakenly suggested Haseltine didn't care what the Bible said.

He says in this blog post that he would raise further questions in future posts. However, I was following the controversy at the time, and he never did. Now Haseltine's blog and Twitter account are nonexistent, and as far as I know, he never did come to a public conclusion on the issue.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

Being somewhat sympathetic to traditionalist feelings, I still find those who shun modern worship standards such as those you've mentioned to miss out on great worship. These songs follow the same pattern as the great hymns of the past. Another song I would list among great hymns would be 10,000 Reasons by Matt Redmond. Who can keep from shouting "HALLELUJAH!" on the third stanza?

I get a bit Bapticostal on that 3rd verse!

 

[Baptist Renegade]

I'm assuming you're talking about the same-sex marriage controversy Dan Haseltine kindled back in 2014? This is the post that basically touched it off, after a badly-worded tweet that mistakenly suggested Haseltine didn't care what the Bible said.

He says in this blog post that he would raise further questions in future posts. However, I was following the controversy at the time, and he never did. Now Haseltine's blog and Twitter account are nonexistent, and as far as I know, he never did come to a public conclusion on the issue.

Well, if he didn't mean what he said, he really needs to clear his name! I still listen to Jars of Clay (Still listen to Hendrix, Clapton, and Zeppelin as well) but see them for what they are rather than some stalwart of biblical truth.

Heck, I still play an instrumental version of "For Those Tears I Died" on my guitar every once in a while! Still a great contemplative song for a communion service!

 

[Baptist Renegade]

If Refnet is "reformed," I don't need it. Thanks anyway! LOL

Well, since there is no "Arminianet," Refnet is all I have to offer but if you won't listen to preachers like Steve Lawson simply because they are Calvinistic, then you are really missing out!

But if you are looking for some good Arminian resources, These guys have earned my respect:

Roger Olson
God's Missionary Church
Jonathan Arnold

I have also enjoyed listening to Leonard Ravenhill and most Calvary Chapel teaching and preaching is pretty good.

 

[Ransom]

And, speaking of major CCM artists being squishy on same-sex mirage:

The word “welcome” comes up frequently when talking to Grant. In recent years, she has voiced support for the LGBTQ community, where she has had a large fan base for decades. Now, she talks about her and Gill’s plans to host her niece’s wedding at their farm, which is her family’s “first bride and bride” nuptials. Grant recalls her reaction when she learned her niece had come out: What a gift to our whole family to just widen the experience of our whole family.

Kennedy Center Honoree Amy Grant Did More than Conquer Christian Music​

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Is it a fair assumption to say that within twenty or so years, fundamental Baptists and maybe Mormons, will be just about the only ones left that don’t flat out accept gay marriages? (Perhaps I might also throw the Catholics in there, but I’m not even sure about them.)

 

[ALAYMAN]

Is it a fair assumption to say that within twenty or so years, fundamental Baptists and maybe Mormons, will be just about the only ones left that don’t flat out accept gay marriages? (Perhaps I might also throw the Catholics in there, but I’m not even sure about them.)

You are right that traditional views on marriage are going the way of the Dodo when it comes to many denoms (mostly mainline) but in addition to the ones you mentioned I doubt those in the holiness mold (Assembly of God, Apostolic, Pentecostal, etc) are going to cave to the alphabet soup crowd anytime soon.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

You are right that traditional views on marriage are going the way of the Dodo when it comes to many denoms (mostly mainline) but in addition to the ones you mentioned I doubt those in the holiness mold (Assembly of God, Apostolic, Pentecostal, etc) are going to cave to the alphabet soup crowd anytime soon.

As radical as this might sound, I actually believe the fundamental Baptists will cave before the Catholic Church when it comes to gay marriage. The Church’s stance on this issue goes back so far in time. I am aware the Pope has given his blessing to civil unions, but that’s essentially just a way to be civil in the 21st century and respect personhood, especially for insurance purposes.

 

[AverageJoe]

Well, since there is no "Arminianet," Refnet is all I have to offer but if you won't listen to preachers like Steve Lawson simply because they are Calvinistic, then you are really missing out!

But if you are looking for some good Arminian resources, These guys have earned my respect:

Roger Olson
God's Missionary Church
Jonathan Arnold

I have also enjoyed listening to Leonard Ravenhill and most Calvary Chapel teaching and preaching is pretty good.

I thought that might get a bit of feedback from you! LOL I'm not one to throw out any preaching that I can possibly benefit from, no matter who it comes from. Some of my "BAAAAA pppptist" friends get indignant when they hear me listening to a Methodist, Anglican, or Catholic preaching! Don't know why...just because they don't hold to every point of doctrine we do doesn't mean they aren't knowledgable in many areas that could benefit us.

 

[illinoisguy]

More complaints from the peanut gallery - Lou Martuneac is griping about the Reformed/Calvinist direction that BJU is going under Steve Pettit. Being Calvinist myself, I don't have a problem with it, but Lou Martuneac does. If it is true, as Martuneac alleges, that BJU is moving away from dispensationalism, I would consider that to be good news.

<i>Bob Jones University Foundations Conference: An Intrusion of Reformed/Covenant Theology, New Calvinism & Lordship Salvation</i>

K ey Speakers at the Foundations Conference at BJU Dec. 8-9, 2022 Dr. Steve Pettit: BJU President • Only days after the contested renewal o...

indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com

"Between conference speakers like these and some of the new faculty hires* (see below) it is virtually irrefutable that Pettit has shifted the doctrinal stance of the university to highly favoring Calvinism, Reformed and Covenant theology. We find it unlikely BJU can even be considered neutral.The proliferation of Reformed theology on campus is unmistakable. It was a concern 20 years ago, today a reality. This has gone beyond merely tolerating Reformed theology (RT). Now, BJU prefers and promotes RT over other positions- dispensationalism for one. . . . Today, a parent who sends his/her young person to BJU should be forewarned and/or expect that their child will come back to them steeped in Calvinism, Reformed theology."

 

[Baptist Renegade]

I thought that might get a bit of feedback from you! LOL I'm not one to throw out any preaching that I can possibly benefit from, no matter who it comes from. Some of my "BAAAAA pppptist" friends get indignant when they hear me listening to a Methodist, Anglican, or Catholic preaching! Don't know why...just because they don't hold to every point of doctrine we do doesn't mean they aren't knowledgable in many areas that could benefit us.

I dunno about listening to Catlicks! May have to drew a line there. Can't be flirting around with that grate hore amen! Anglecans and Metheadists ain't much better!

 

[Ransom]

More complaints from the peanut gallery - Lou Martuneac is griping about the Reformed/Calvinist direction that BJU is going under Steve Pettit.

Do you get the impression that Lou-ser is a low-rent David Cloud wannabe?

 

[AverageJoe]

Do you get the impression that Lou-ser is a low-rent David Cloud wannabe?

Eh, could be!

 

[AverageJoe]

I dunno about listening to Catlicks! May have to drew a line there. Can't be flirting around with that grate hore amen! Anglecans and Metheadists ain't much better!

I've actually come across some pretty decent laypeople in the RCC....Some that reject many of the teachings of the church. One such person is my aunt's second husband. He's trying to change the RCC from within.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

I've actually come across some pretty decent laypeople in the RCC....Some that reject many of the teachings of the church. One such person is my aunt's second husband. He's trying to change the RCC from within.

Tell him "Good luck with that!" Introduce him to men like Jan Hus, Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, and others who tried to do the very same thing!

 

[AverageJoe]

Tell him "Good luck with that!" Introduce him to men like Jan Hus, Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, and others who tried to do the very same thing!

He knows all about them. TBH, I think he's just afraid of going somewhere else. My aunt's ex-husband used to be a Baptist youth minister. He worked at an aerospace plant in St. Louis. He started "working overtime" a lot of the time. When my aunt came down to visit my dad who had just been diagnosed with cancer back in 1997, she came home to find out her husband was having an affair with a woman from work. He confessed, gave up his position and they divorced. My aunt sued the woman for alienation of affection and won, and her ex and the lady got married. She has had a bit of a problem with the IFB churches since that time since the pastor of the church she and her ex had been involved in did NOTHING at all about the situation, including not using church discipline on her ex. As far as I know he's still on their rolls though he's not attended that church for over 25 years now.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

My aunt sued the woman for alienation of affection and won

Wow…that’s some old school tort. I think that law has been all but abolished these days. Might not be a bad idea to have it back on the books. I know lawyers would love it!

 

[illinoisguy]

Here is how the Roman Catholic Church used to handle their own people who tried to "change the church from within." Jon Hus was basically a good Catholic who believed in transubstantiation and who only wanted to fix the church from within - his only crime was that he believed that a church council, not the Pope, should be the final authority in Catholicism.



"The Czech Republic observes the Day of Burning Jan Hus each year on July 6."

"The burning of John Huss, 6 July 1415. Hus (1369-1415), a Bohemian religious reformer and theologian, was condemned to death by the Council of Constance for preaching the teachings of the English reformist clergyman John Wycliffe. He was burned to death as a heretic."

[Refer also to the scene in the 1971 Unusual Films movie ""Flame in the Wind" where a Spanish Protestant reformer, played by Dr. Bob Jones III, is burned at the stake]

 

[AverageJoe]

Wow…that’s some old school tort. I think that law has been all but abolished these days. Might not be a bad idea to have it back on the books. I know lawyers would love it!

That was back in 1998. It was barely still holding on in the State of Missouri. The lady who my aunt sued didn't think anything would become of it, but, she found out differently, especially when she had to pay up!

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

That was back in 1998. It was barely still holding on in the State of Missouri. The lady who my aunt sued didn't think anything would become of it, but, she found out differently, especially when she had to pay up!

I only knew the law still barely existed because a famous golfer was involved in a lawsuit regarding this several years ago. His case made it all the way to the SC, and no one is sure of what the status is now. https://www.essentiallysports.com/g...ncee-for-alienation-of-affection-in-2015/amp/