That all depends on what you mean when you're saying the universe was determined. That can be considered to be true but not true depending on how you're using the term.
The Free Will Challenge
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
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But there are other valid ways in which this questioned can be considered. Who resists his will can be viewed in context that God decides certain things and you're not going to buck at the consequences of one's actions. When God says one will reap what they sow you're not going to resist that will and law. That's a far cry however from saying God imposes his will and makes people's choices.
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Welcome to the forum. The people who you are responding to have not posted anything on here for several years so you won’t be getting direct responses to your challenges by them. One word of caution before you proceed. Just be respectful and show your work for why you believe what you believe and this can be an interesting place for sharpening iron. If you do like many people do who enter this forum and begin dropping grenades and disrespecting people with charges of ignorance or disbelief (a form of ad hominem argumentation which amounts to merely calling names and attacking the person rather than the idea) you will quickly be dismissed. Please take this admonition in the spirit that it is intended, not patronizing or condescending to you, but trying to help.
To provide an outlet whereby MAN could choose good from evil. So how does that equate that he wanted MAN to partake of the forbidden fruit?
The greatest number and majority of Non-Calvinists don't believe that, except if they're a part of a number who believe in open theism.
That's a blasphemous statement.
Well that's something I'd say other readers on here will have to decide. I suppose your mind and some others are already made up. The question is though does it make ANY sense to say it was God's will for them to choose evil before they did it and then say well it was of their own will. How could it be of their own will when God (according to you) willed it before hand. As Calvinists like to ask, over and over and over on here...Who has resisted HIS will? You Calvinists would claim no one. Does MAN therefore have a will to choose? Only in a strange, esoteric way of using words outside of a normal way of using words could any one say man could.
Except a few things. Your way of thinking doesn't reflect righteous actions for a God to commit. It certainly doesn't reflect anything of mercy either. Blaming people for sin in which he ordained that they would commit would be far from merciful. And ordaining them to sin, actually ordaining them to sin and not providing salvation from what he ordained...how is it that can be viewed as mercy?
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Asked and answered. You inability to understand that commands do not have truth value is your problem, not mine. Repeating your wrong premise won't make it correct. Go eat some crayons.
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I haven't quoted any dead Roman Catholic theologians. This accusation is more proof that you are trying to argue with your own imagination, not with what people are actually saying.
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You don't ask dumb people smart questions.
Why would God give a command if He had already determined the outcome ? You are ignoring the obvious to stay in error.
You call yourself a Calvinist correct ? Why would a Christian label themself with the name of a dead Roman Catholic theologian ?
Lol, I would think those not playing with a full deck ask dumb questions.
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Repeating the same phrase over and over isn't really giving your position...prove someone is saying God's being duplicitous...or MOVE ON, moron.
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Yep...that's all of us...but, HE needs to be more clear in what he's trying to convey.Well that's my position too brother! Glad we agree about something!
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Yep....my dad's a marine and he looked at this and shook his head....his exact words were, "He's a jackass!" Fits, doesn't it? I think he and eKKK are twins from different mothers! LOL
Thank you for your service sir! I served in the Navy in the 1980s when Reagan was in office and thankfully, his foreign policies kept us out of war. Please do not speak ill of any of those who have served!
If you served in Nam, then you are somewhat older than I but I would never know based upon how you are conducting yourself here.
Probably one of those "Baptist Perpetuity" types who believe Baptists go all the way back to the Apostles and the Reformers were just "Disgruntled Catholics who got tired of killing Baptists!" I had some HACker show up on my FB page making this exact nonsensical statement when I posted something about Martin Luther last year on "Reformation Day!"
You’re welcome serving was my privilege and honor. I went to Nam and stepped foot in DaNang when I was 18. Speaking of how someone conducts themself you might want to read your post 183&187 where you questioned my service.Reagan was the first person I voted for he was a good President who loved America. Thank you for your service.
Nope, I am one of those Baptist that is part of the family of God that traces their roots all the way back to Calvary. There have been many that called themself Christian while they served their own interests and desires while ignoring God’s decrees and covenant. That of course is between them and God, and I sincerely hope they repented.
Didn't mean to question your service and I apologize if I sounded that way. I was calling out your behavior more than anything. You made the comment about "Crayon Eaters" so I was just having a little fun at your expense!
Now that we stepped away from arguing about Calvinism, you seem like a halfway decent kind of guy. Hope I can have substantive conversations with you in the future.
I am guilty of being very convicted and passionate about God’s word. I do NOT believe God’s word contradicts itself, which to me would mean God contradicted Himself. Have I arrived yet ? Nope but I am open to learning from God’s Spirit. Thank you for the apology , and I will be the first to admit my behavior isn’t always up to God’s standards. When others are overbearing and snarky I generally respond in kind, which I am not proud of. I may be wrong but I believe being humble pleases the Lord more than being aggressive.
I do like this how you and the other VET are thanking each other for their service to the country. You don't however agree with each other on some of these theological matters though and if you don't agree with one another you don't agree with one another. God doesn't want any of us to be yes men towards each other.
I think we should all appreciated though that we're all a part of a spiritual military as well and thank one another for our service. Everybody is trying to serve King Jesus and his Kingdom. As officers of his Kingdom we might look at a certain regiment and conclude they're not shooting straight. The other gunners aren't lining up their targets right. We don't condemn them or act in a condescending way towards them for they are at least seeking to serve. If one part of the military is weak or amiss....we are too.....we are one. If we can strengthen the weak parts we're strengthening ourselves as well. We are not enemies of each other.