Mar 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. . No where in scripture does it say God believes or repents for anyone.If you truly have free will, then you should be able to accept and complete this challenge:
Exercise your will to never again commit a sin of thought or deed.
Let me know how you do.
I bet half of you failed simply by your reaction to reading this challenge.
Rebellion and warning by God to NOT eat off of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil disobeyed makes it Adam’s sin not Gods who is not able to sin because He is holy. If God told Adam and Eve to not do something while all all along God determined for them to do what He told them not to do would make God dishonest and a liar , and He isn’t either.
Welcome to the forum. Interesting thread you've revived, but that dude you are addressing has been gone for many years and isn't likely to return soon.
Thanks for the info. I registered a couple days ago.Welcome to the forum. Interesting thread you've revived, but that dude you are addressing has been gone for many years and isn't likely to return soon.
You're welcome. I appreciate your your perspective on not making God the author of mankinds sins. I am not a calvinist, but In fairness to them, they likewise do not attribute responsibility of man's sin to God, yet frequently will use language of a predeterministic nature that seems like that indeed is the logical conclusion of their thoughts.
Agreed if God determined for Adam and Eve to disobey Him after He warned them and commanded them not to eat off that tree He would not be honest and would be a liar, and God cannot lie due to His holiness. I think their major problem, from talking to them, that they believe a dead man cannot approach God, and I agree. Jesus said no man comes to the Son unless the Father draws him. When drawn to Jesus people either accept or reject the light God gives them.
Adam and Eve made a choice to disobey God who had commanded and warned them NOT to eat off of the tree.
Yes. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?
But then again who could say any false teaching can be backed by scripture. Doesn't mean you don't need to keep studying to make sure one is on a right ground.
You'll for sure see at least some people that don't settle the issue. I've seen some which have come to a new understanding and left Calvinism. To them it became settled.
Sorry Average Joe but that doesn't answer how Calvinism can turn people away from God as they don't consider him gracious, loving and fair. Jesus came and revealed the nature and character of God and that is something God wants rightly taught to the people of humanity. It does matter and can matter.
I would agree they try to say what you say...not denying that. However they need to set aside therefore the Westminister Confession which says
You seem to have come to these forums with an agenda. Do you know me? Do you know what I think, or which position I hold? No. Am I a Calvinist? Have I anywhere stated I support TULIP in any way, shape, or form? Am I an Arminian? Am I a Calminian? Both sides have come to conclusions...most probably not so good. I've seen some who hold to Calvinism who have lived victorious Christian lives and NOT pushed the agenda or soteriology on others...who haven't even made it an issue. I've found the same for some Arminian sympathizers. I've also seen both sides affect how people live their lives in a negative way. I've seen some who have misinterpeted free will and have said one could lose their salvation...guess they think God is an Indian Giver. I've seen some who have questioned their salvation in the Calvinist field because they weren't living perfect, victorious lives. I have a brother who has asked God to kill him if he's not part of the elect, though he claims he knows Christ as his savior. It's frustrating to see either side misinterpret scripture for their own ends.
Before the fall, Adam and Eve had both the ability to sin (posse pecarre) and the ability not to sin (posse non-pecarre). It was only prior to the fall that they had a "Perfect" free will. After the fall, they lost the ability not to sin (non-posse non-pecarre) which also means they lost their so-called "Free Will" not to sin. Mankind is therefore enslaved, in bondage to, and is dead in trespasses and sin (Eph 2:1). Mankind therefore does not have the ability to do anything that pleases God.
Yes. Still doesn't mean there isn't a place for people to be taught on just what is the gracious, kind, loving character of God or what God is really like for the goodness of God can lead many to repentance. If they have a wrong way of thinking about God it can drive them away.
Again...the obvious stated...UGH!
I think I’m gonna like you.
I never could resolve how the adamant hard-core five point Calvinist resolved what I seen as doublespeak in regards to the issue of ordaining all that comes to pass, and that not being equivalent to God being responsible for sin.Their two opposing statements can't be reconciled and it's really just as simple as that. Would God make us do mental gymnastics that Calvinists beliefs makes one do, he ordains sin, but then again....well he doesn't he not really responsible yet oh yeah, he ordained it all. It's outrageous that any rational person would even consider that makes sense.I think I’m gonna like you.
Sounds like double-speak to those who hold to the position of free will....I'm jus' sayin'!
LOL
Non-Cals are quite funny how they complain that God won't allow people to have a free will in order to "Choose Christ" but then they complain when God gives them a free will in order to "Choose to sin!"Sounds like double-speak to those who hold to the position of free will....I'm jus' sayin'!