The "Great Commission".

[UGC]

Addressing that twisting of Gal. 4:

"21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? [Context: telling them they are not under the Law, that was Old Covenant]
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. [Ishmael vs. Isaac]
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. [Isaac received the promise]
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. [Ishmael & Isaac were an allegory of Old Covenant Law vs. New Covenant]
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [Israel is still under bondage under the Law]
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." [And this Jerusalem which is above will be BROUGHT DOWN to the NEW EARTH as explained in Rev. 21:10-13, Jer. 31, Is. 66, Micah 4, and Hebrews 12, at which point in time ALL ON EARTH WILL KNOW THE LORD and the New Covenant for the HOUSE of Israel WHO ARE CURRENTLY STILL IN BONDAGE UNDER THE LAW will be in full effect].

Nowhere there does it say that the Jerusalem which is above is an "allegory". It says it is "free". That's what the Bible says. Without your theory inserted.

 

[UGC]

*More accurately Agar vs. Sarah. The Old Covenant, the law, could not provide what the New Covenant ultimately will for Israel on the New Earth.

 

[illinoisguy]

Ugg said in post #92 that "[Christ's] mission was not to bring the Kingdom of Heaven right away, but simply to offer it (THE PHYSICAL KINGDOM THAT DESCENDS TO EARTH IN REV. 21)" So is that what Christ was doing when He said in Luke 17:20-21, "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

If Christ's offer of the Kingdom was not sincere and He had no intention of bringing it in right away, how is it that we are told in Luke 16:16 that "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." In Luke 18:16 Christ said, "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God." Why did Christ and the Apostle Paul consistently speak of the Kingdom as a current, present reality, if it was not going to be set up for at least 2000 more years?

Please don't give us the Scofield baloney about how the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are two different kingdoms. Clearly, they are one and the same, described by two different names: "Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19:23-24.

 

[treasure_unseen]

LOL!

So you're telling me Isaiah, Jeremiah, Micah, Hebrews, and Revelation, from OT to NT, are all describing an ALLEGORICAL Kingdom that God decided to describe IN THIS LEVEL OF DETAIL:

Rev. 21:1-25:
"10...that great city ("city" is an allegory?), the holy Jerusalem (pretty sure "Jerusalem" is a real place), descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates (THAT'S PRETTY SPECIFIC).
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof (WHY ARE THEY MEASURING A CITY THAT ISN'T REAL?).
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel (I'M SURE NOAH'S ARK WAS AN ALLEGORY TOO, IT WAS REFERENCED BY MEASUREMENT IN CUBITS).
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof (I'M SURE THE LORD BEING THE LIGHT IS AN ALLEGORY TOO, HE'S PROBABLY TALKING ABOUT THE SUN, YAY NEW AGE).
24 And the nations (ALLEGORY I'M SURE) of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth (ALLEGORICAL KINGS, RIGHT) do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there (ALLEGORY, I'M SURE, THERE'LL BE LITERAL NIGHT BECAUSE THIS DAYTIME IS ALL ALLEGORY, AS IS THE CITY ITSELF, AND JERUSALEM, AND THE LORD BEING THE LIGHT THEREOF)."


And yet Covenant Theologians have the gall to tell us we're not believing the Bible. You are clearly twisting or ignoring it to fit your PRIVATE THEORY. NOWHERE DOES PAUL SAY THIS KINGDOM IS AN ALLEGORY.

I never said the Kingdom was an allegory. I said exactly what Paul said about Jerusalem above. Which what you referenced in Revelation 21.

I'm not telling you this. Paul told you this. Why are you denying Galatians 4? Why don't you believe the Scripture?

Here. Read it again....

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Read really slow. Note verse #24

Which THINGS. Plural... THINGS. are an ALLEGORY. In verse 26, Jerusalem, which is above is specifically listed. Here. I'll put it in big letters for you so you can read it and believe it.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 

[treasure_unseen]

View attachment 1427

I asked you some very specific questions and you're ignoring this to be a cheerleader for Herb. I wish I had a dollar bill for every time that has happened.

Its sad you think you're going to get a mansion to brag about.

You can tell none of you have ever really tried to defend the faith to anyone that really knows the Scriptures. You wilt like old flowers when you do.

 

[Twisted]

I asked you some very specific questions and you're ignoring this to be a cheerleader for Herb. I wish I had a dollar bill for every time that has happened.

Its sad you think you're going to get a mansion to brag about.

You can tell none of you have ever really tried to defend the faith to anyone that really knows the Scriptures. You wilt like old flowers when you do.

You've heard the old saying, "You can lead an ass to water, but you can't make him drink". Sorry, but nobody can make you believe what you read.

Now take those dollars and maybe you can pay someone to help you with reading comprehension.

And I don't know if it's really a "mansion", but Jesus said He's building something for ME, and I believe Him.

Do us all a favor, and list your "heroes of the faith", who have taught you to not believe the scriptures.

 

[treasure_unseen]

You've heard the old saying, "You can lead an ass to water, but you can't make him drink". Sorry, but nobody can make you believe what you read.

Now take those dollars and maybe you can pay someone to help you with reading comprehension.

And I don't know if it's really a "mansion", but Jesus said He's building something for ME, and I believe Him.

Do us all a favor, and list your "heroes of the faith", who have taught you to not believe the scriptures.

I see you're upset again because I told you the truth. Truth makes us free.

There is a huge difference between continuing earthly things in heaven vs embracing Eternal things from God in our future. Brother I wish things were different.

I have no "heroes" of the faith. I gave up man worship a long time ago. Believe it or not, I recently lost one of my oldest friends over dispensationalism. Not that I hold anything against him. I don't. He has the issue with me. I finally decided to challenge him on what what he's believed for 40 years. It didn't go well. In fact, he pretty much told me to shut up.

I know its painful to have what you've believed for so long......torn down around you. It was painful when it happened to me.

 

[Twisted]

I know its painful to have what you've believed for so long......torn down around you. It was painful when it happened to me.

Ain't nothin' been "torn down" around me, and I totally understand your friend telling you to "shut up".

We've got another like you here, Smellin', but he doesn't post much anymore.

 

[treasure_unseen]

Ain't nothin' been "torn down" around me, and I totally understand your friend telling you to "shut up".

We've got another like you here, Smellin', but he doesn't post much anymore.

Still angry. If it didn't hurt you wouldn't be so angry. Your pride is getting in the way.

I'm nothing like Smellin. I've debated him many times over the years. I've noticed he's not around anymore. He was right about some things and horribly wrong about others. I do miss him.

 

[treasure_unseen]

Addressing that twisting of Gal. 4:

"21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? [Context: telling them they are not under the Law, that was Old Covenant]
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. [Ishmael vs. Isaac]
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. [Isaac received the promise]
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. [Ishmael & Isaac were an allegory of Old Covenant Law vs. New Covenant]
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [Israel is still under bondage under the Law]
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." [And this Jerusalem which is above will be BROUGHT DOWN to the NEW EARTH as explained in Rev. 21:10-13, Jer. 31, Is. 66, Micah 4, and Hebrews 12, at which point in time ALL ON EARTH WILL KNOW THE LORD and the New Covenant for the HOUSE of Israel WHO ARE CURRENTLY STILL IN BONDAGE UNDER THE LAW will be in full effect].

Nowhere there does it say that the Jerusalem which is above is an "allegory". It says it is "free". That's what the Bible says. Without your theory inserted.

I answered you in another response but I'll do the same here.

verse 24 mentions "THINGS"... plural. Vs 26 deals with "Jerusalem above" in an allegorical manner.

Thus, you have 'Jerusalem above" being an allegory.

Which why when you break down Revelation 21 against what we know from other Scriptures. We can absolutely determine that the new Jerusalem isn't a literal expression of a physical city. I could go into great detail but you'll just pick what part you want to peck at and ignore the rest.

I will give an example.

There are no need for gates in a perfect environment. Gates are made to either keep things in or keep things out.

YOU are looking to continue earthly things in heavenly things. Which is entirely ridiculous.

 

[Twisted]

YOU are looking to continue earthly things in heavenly things. Which is entirely ridiculous.

You do realize that there will be "earthly" people, procreating throughout eternity, don't you? (I know, I'm wasting my time)

Your blindness makes Ray Charles look like a poster child for Lenscrafters.

 

[treasure_unseen]

You do realize that there will be "earthly" people, procreating throughout eternity, don't you? (I know, I'm wasting my time)

Your blindness makes Ray Charles look like a poster child for Lenscrafters.

I realize that Mormons believe such. I didn't know there were any IFB Mormons around.

Pray tell.... just where do you get this from?

Regardless, there is no reason to believe that earthly building structures will find there way into heavenly places. Do you remember when Paul told those in Corinth about the heavenly things he wasn't allowed to discuss with them? Things unimaginable? Things he saw when he was caught up into the Third Heaven?

Compare spiritual things with spiritual things.....

 

[UGC]

If Christ's offer of the Kingdom was not sincere

It was sincere. You can offer something sincerely and respect the free will of the people to reject it. Unless you're Hitler, then you force it on them regardless.

The physical Kingdom is not here yet. You can either believe the Bible or believe some outdated political confession.

You have absolutely no response for all of the verses in post #69, which is why you HAVE to ignore it. THAT is your admission that you prefer your opinions over the word. No one is listening to you until you actually address ALL of those verses, which clearly detail the physical kingdom to come on the NEW EARTH. Please explain to us how that Kingdom is already on earth right now.

Which THINGS. Plural... THINGS. are an ALLEGORY. In verse 26, Jerusalem, which is above is specifically listed.

What a chronic liar this guy is. The allegory is about the 2 covenants, that's what it says. Thank you and the ignorant illinoisguy for strengthening my faith in the Bible.

The "things" he was referencing are precisely 2 things: Agar and Sarah (by extension Ishmael and Isaac), which represent Old and New Covenant. The Old could not bring in their Promised Kingdom. The New will. That's IT. That's what the word clearly says.

You just twisted it just like you also claim to be a Gentile that is a "True Jew".

 

[UGC]

(this treasure_unseen guy seriously just tried to use an allegory about the 2 covenants in the Pauline Epistles and force it to make the Physical Kingdom in Rev. 21 allegorical just because the word "kingdom" showed up AFTER the 2 covenant-allegory was mentioned in that verse: then he claimed he actually doesn't believe the Physical Kingdom in Rev. 21 is allegorical. Just like he said he is a "true Jew" but then flip-flopped and said he isn't a Jew but a Gentile! This guy can't see his own hypocrisy. A literal walking paradox."

Let this be a positive testimony for Dispensationalism and those who stick to the KJV.

 

[treasure_unseen]

(this treasure_unseen guy seriously just tried to use an allegory about the 2 covenants in the Pauline Epistles and force it to make the Physical Kingdom in Rev. 21

You're lying. I referenced a city. "Jerusalem from above." Which is what is found in words you posted from Revelation 21. Why are you so dishonest? You could at least be accurate to what I've said.

allegorical just because the word "kingdom" showed up AFTER the 2 covenant-allegory was mentioned in that verse: then he claimed he actually doesn't believe the Physical Kingdom in Rev. 21 is allegorical! Just like he said he is a "true Jew" but then flip-flopped and said he's a Gentile! This guy can't see his own hypocrisy. A literal walking paradox."

Let this be a positive testimony for Dispensationalism and those who stick to the KJV.

Another lie. I definitely believe in a physical kingdom. However, that has nothing to do with words found in Revelation 21 with is an allegorical reference to "Jerusalem from above".

I realize you're unlearned, untrained and unethical but you really should try to deal honestly with theology. Its complicated at times. Just because I referenced the proper view of Revelation 21 doesn't mean I reject the physical manifestation of the God's Kingdom. I just don't believe the way you do. I agree with the Scriptures.

Jesus Christ IS the physical manifest of the Kingdom of God. Not what you believe about a literal city you're going to rule your few from.

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Christ in you. Christ is near. The Eternal Christ. There is no Kingdom without the KING!

 

[UGC]

You're lying.

I think I can calmly state that we all know who the liar is here at this point.

I referenced a city. "Jerusalem from above."

Also known as the Kingdom of Heaven, if you had read the attributes of it in Jer. 31, Is. 66, Micah 4, Hebrews 12, and Rev. 21.
This Kingdom is not the Spiritual Kingdom because that one is Christ within you.

Don't read what I'm about to say here, its truth may "scare" you: The Kingdom of Heaven is external to the individual and will occupy the space they move around in, it includes a literal city, a house, thrones (definitely not allegorical), a table, and will sit on a literal "Mountain of the Lord" among other mountains in an external 3-dimensional space on the "New Earth", all of those things are not inside you and were not erased by the New Covenant, because in Revelation 21, the 2nd to last chapter in the entire Bible which is in the NEW TESTAMENT, it retains these same physical, external attributes of this Kingdom which will be brought down out of Heaven, that's why this Kingdom of God is called the "Kingdom of Heaven" while the Spiritual Kingdom of God is more often referred to exactly as such because it is GOD in you.

See how amazing it is when you just read the Bible and believe what it says instead of using one of the many disagreeing outdated political confessions that were most often designed to appeal to the leaders of parliament at the time, and probably put together by men of both mediocre independent thinking ability devoid of any Bible knowledge outside traditions of men?

 

[UGC]

(The Covenant Theologian:

"There's only one kingdom, man. It's within you. We're all going to float around in nothingness because no physical Kingdom EXTERNAL to us will exist, it's all within. The physical was erased by the New Covenant, never mind the fact that we'll receive glorified PHYSICAL bodies in ADDITION to our spirit. God is done with the Jews. He ALREADY brought their promised Kingdom the first time, he just morphed it to fit ALL inside you. I'm a Jew now. I have a MOUNTAIN dwelling inside of me."

CAN YOU SEE THE INSANITY YET? YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED BY THE FATHER OF LIES.)

 

[treasure_unseen]

I think I can calmly state that we all know who the liar is here at this point.


Also known as the Kingdom of Heaven, if you had read the attributes of it in Jer. 31, Is. 66, Micah 4, Hebrews 12, and Rev. 21.
This Kingdom is not the Spiritual Kingdom because that one is Christ within you.

Don't read what I'm about to say here, its truth may "scare" you: The Kingdom of Heaven is external to the individual and will occupy the space they move around in, it includes a literal city, a house, thrones (definitely not allegorical), a table, and will sit on a literal "Mountain of the Lord" among other mountains in an external 3-dimensional space on the "New Earth", all of those things are not inside you and were not erased by the New Covenant, because in Revelation 21, the 2nd to last chapter in the entire Bible which is in the NEW TESTAMENT, it retains these same physical, external attributes of this Kingdom which will be brought down out of Heaven, that's why this Kingdom of God is called the "Kingdom of Heaven" while the Spiritual Kingdom of God is more often referred to exactly as such because it is GOD in you.

See how amazing it is when you just read the Bible and believe what it says instead of using one of the many disagreeing outdated political confessions that were most often designed to appeal to the leaders of parliament at the time, and probably put together by men of both mediocre independent thinking ability devoid of any Bible knowledge outside traditions of men?

I probably read/heard that junk before you were born. Do you seriously believe you're the only one that has peddled that nonsense before?

I gave you the Truth. The Kingdom of God is all about Christ. He was manifest physically for US. He tasted death for US. We will literally spend the rest of our Eternal lives with the very real, tangible, literal Jesus Christ.

Your entire theology revolves around mixing temporal things with heavenly things. Which is what the natural man does. He latches on to the only thing he knows. That is why he creates idols after his own imaginations in his own likeness.

 

[treasure_unseen]

(The Covenant Theologian:

"There's only one kingdom, man. It's within you. We're all going to float around in nothingness because no physical Kingdom EXTERNAL to us will exist, it's all within. The physical was erased by the New Covenant, never mind the fact that we will receive glorified PHYSICAL bodies in ADDITION to our spirit. God is done with the Jews. He succeeded in bringing their promised Kingdom the first time, he just morphed it to fit ALL inside you. I'm a Jew now."

CAN YOU SEE THE INSANITY YET? YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED BY THE FATHER OF LIES.)

Covenant Theology does not teach such. That is your lie concerning it. You don't understand it.... nor do you understand the Scriptures.

Christ in US is not remotely related "float around in nothingness". Such comments ridicule the reality of the Incarnation and the Eternal manifest Christ. It is BOTH a Spiritual/Physical Kingdom. It just isn't what you believe it is. Its not about buildings nor earthly cities. Its so much greater than this. You soil that realty with your carnal idols of imagination.

 

[UGC]

Christ in US is not remotely related "float around in nothingness".

Wait, so the US is the Kingdom of Heaven now? I'm done. Next UGC Bible Study's gonna be next level, guys.