The Legacy of Being a Christian Nation

Smellin Coffee said:
Why should I feel guilt about being truthful? All one has to do is believe the Old Testament is true "as is" to get a picture of the Christian god which is completely different than that of whom Jesus taught. So yeah, those are Christian ideals which have been displayed in this country since its beginning.

And in the New Testament, having a need for a "blood-thirsty god" demanding innocence as a means to satiate vengeful desires is the core doctrine of Christianity. Why wouldn't Christians then also need to see that demand met and expected of others, if this is the god they choose to model?

Having been a "Christian" for over 45 years, I know whereof I speak.

No, Smellin' you ain't a Christian, no matter how good your current belief system makes you feel.  Denying the atonement, and slew of other cardinal doctrines shows your character.  I'm truly sorry to say that.  You can continue to lie about what Christians advocate, but they will nonetheless be your own lies and experiences within your own head and heart.  To portray the majority, or anything near it, of Christians as racist, sexist, etc, etc, etc, as you have shows you lack a sense of reality.  Maybe Tarheel is right about you and Hyles did such a number on you that your sense of Christianity is simply a caricature.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Why should I feel guilt about being truthful? All one has to do is believe the Old Testament is true "as is" to get a picture of the Christian god which is completely different than that of whom Jesus taught. So yeah, those are Christian ideals which have been displayed in this country since its beginning.

And in the New Testament, having a need for a "blood-thirsty god" demanding innocence as a means to satiate vengeful desires is the core doctrine of Christianity. Why wouldn't Christians then also need to see that demand met and expected of others, if this is the god they choose to model?

Having been a "Christian" for over 45 years, I know whereof I speak.

No, Smellin' you ain't a Christian, no matter how good your current belief system makes you feel.  Denying the atonement, and slew of other cardinal doctrines shows your character.  I'm truly sorry to say that.  You can continue to lie about what Christians advocate, but they will nonetheless be your own lies and experiences within your own head and heart.  To portray the majority, or anything near it, of Christians as racist, sexist, etc, etc, etc, as you have shows you lack a sense of reality.  Maybe Tarheel is right about you and Hyles did such a number on you that your sense of Christianity is simply a caricature.

MAYBE Tarheel is right?
MAYBE!!??

:D

 
ALAYMAN said:
No, Smellin' you ain't a Christian, no matter how good your current belief system makes you feel.  Denying the atonement, and slew of other cardinal doctrines shows your character.  I'm truly sorry to say that.  You can continue to lie about what Christians advocate, but they will nonetheless be your own lies and experiences within your own head and heart.  To portray the majority, or anything near it, of Christians as racist, sexist, etc, etc, etc, as you have shows you lack a sense of reality.  Maybe Tarheel is right about you and Hyles did such a number on you that your sense of Christianity is simply a caricature.

Choosing to dilute the teachings of Christ is what Christianity (Western world, for sure - can't speak for overseas) is all about. I can safely call out a "majority" because over 80% of those claiming Evangelicalism as their religious hub voted for a sex predator, night club owner, serial adulterer, racist, dishonest charlatan all while KNOWING his behavior. But that didn't matter. After all, go ahead and split families by sending members back to countries they don't even remember, plugging the 'citizen kids' in foster care. That's the Christian thing to do. And those that are on death row? Fry 'em because that is the Christian thing to do. Shut down health services that poor women rely on? Yep. Let's get rid of educational opportunities by not showing grace to the debts of poor kids who are trying to get a leg up in the world, many of whom happen to be of wrong color. Put poor blacks in jail for years for carrying an ounce of the same substance white shops sell in Colorado by the tonnage.

Historically? Slavery being condoned by Christians in colonial times. Not to mention Manifest Destiny to wipe out the Natives whose land we stole. I do not believe for one moment Jesus would support any of those things so yeah, keep your Christianity. I choose to follow Jesus Christ even if that makes me a non-Christian, an apostate, a heretic, whatever label gets thrown at me.

This is not a lack of reality. I can no longer in good conscience be that kind of person I was while a Fundagelical. Whatever moral code that is within me (perhaps God-placed) won't let me be that way anymore. You guys can blame Hyles all you want but I left that system over 30 years ago and have witnessed the same pattern repeat itself time and time again, church after church, only one of which actually endorsed the Hyles mentality. So what is the key component? Not Hyles: but doctrine with a violent God, inerrant Scriptures and a penchant for driving an agenda against those who disagree.

I would rather be about helping a poor Sudanese family trying to make it from literally nothing but the clothes on their back. I would rather be about housing a "Christian" teenager whose parents kicked her out because she told them she is gay. I would rather be about coaching special needs children and adults through several sports, getting to know their families, caregivers and the organizations that assist them. I would rather be all about that rather than Evangelicalism and the politics of exclusivity and hate in which it has bed itself.
 
SC, let me ask you, for the sake of the discussion, if it were up to you, what would you make as the Law of the land? What would be the law that would make this a Christian Nation?
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
ALAYMAN said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Why should I feel guilt about being truthful? All one has to do is believe the Old Testament is true "as is" to get a picture of the Christian god which is completely different than that of whom Jesus taught. So yeah, those are Christian ideals which have been displayed in this country since its beginning.

And in the New Testament, having a need for a "blood-thirsty god" demanding innocence as a means to satiate vengeful desires is the core doctrine of Christianity. Why wouldn't Christians then also need to see that demand met and expected of others, if this is the god they choose to model?

Having been a "Christian" for over 45 years, I know whereof I speak.

No, Smellin' you ain't a Christian, no matter how good your current belief system makes you feel.  Denying the atonement, and slew of other cardinal doctrines shows your character.  I'm truly sorry to say that.  You can continue to lie about what Christians advocate, but they will nonetheless be your own lies and experiences within your own head and heart.  To portray the majority, or anything near it, of Christians as racist, sexist, etc, etc, etc, as you have shows you lack a sense of reality.  Maybe Tarheel is right about you and Hyles did such a number on you that your sense of Christianity is simply a caricature.

MAYBE Tarheel is right?
MAYBE!!??

:D

Highly unlikely but would be first ;)
 
Smellin Coffee said:
ALAYMAN said:
No, Smellin' you ain't a Christian, no matter how good your current belief system makes you feel.  Denying the atonement, and slew of other cardinal doctrines shows your character.  I'm truly sorry to say that.  You can continue to lie about what Christians advocate, but they will nonetheless be your own lies and experiences within your own head and heart.  To portray the majority, or anything near it, of Christians as racist, sexist, etc, etc, etc, as you have shows you lack a sense of reality.  Maybe Tarheel is right about you and Hyles did such a number on you that your sense of Christianity is simply a caricature.

Choosing to dilute the teachings of Christ is what Christianity (Western world, for sure - can't speak for overseas) is all about. I can safely call out a "majority" because over 80% of those claiming Evangelicalism as their religious hub voted for a sex predator, night club owner, serial adulterer, racist, dishonest charlatan all while KNOWING his behavior. But that didn't matter. After all, go ahead and split families by sending members back to countries they don't even remember, plugging the 'citizen kids' in foster care. That's the Christian thing to do. And those that are on death row? Fry 'em because that is the Christian thing to do. Shut down health services that poor women rely on? Yep. Let's get rid of educational opportunities by not showing grace to the debts of poor kids who are trying to get a leg up in the world, many of whom happen to be of wrong color. Put poor blacks in jail for years for carrying an ounce of the same substance white shops sell in Colorado by the tonnage.

Historically? Slavery being condoned by Christians in colonial times. Not to mention Manifest Destiny to wipe out the Natives whose land we stole. I do not believe for one moment Jesus would support any of those things so yeah, keep your Christianity. I choose to follow Jesus Christ even if that makes me a non-Christian, an apostate, a heretic, whatever label gets thrown at me.

This is not a lack of reality. I can no longer in good conscience be that kind of person I was while a Fundagelical. Whatever moral code that is within me (perhaps God-placed) won't let me be that way anymore. You guys can blame Hyles all you want but I left that system over 30 years ago and have witnessed the same pattern repeat itself time and time again, church after church, only one of which actually endorsed the Hyles mentality. So what is the key component? Not Hyles: but doctrine with a violent God, inerrant Scriptures and a penchant for driving an agenda against those who disagree.

I would rather be about helping a poor Sudanese family trying to make it from literally nothing but the clothes on their back. I would rather be about housing a "Christian" teenager whose parents kicked her out because she told them she is gay. I would rather be about coaching special needs children and adults through several sports, getting to know their families, caregivers and the organizations that assist them. I would rather be all about that rather than Evangelicalism and the politics of exclusivity and hate in which it has bed itself.

You seem to confuse the church with the state quite a bit. 

I don't know who (other than ultimately your own choosing) is responsible for your rejection of evangelical Chrisitanity, and don't really care who to pin that blame on, but what I do know from watching your leanings and change through the years is that you are sincere.  But sincerity isn't the gauge of truth, and your reasons for rejecting Biblical Christianity are caricatures and stereotypes of almost all the people I've  known in my time as a Christian.  My mother is a staunch democrat who hates Trump.  She would give you the shirt off her back if need be.  She wouldn't know what the words "canon of Scripture" even meant.  She is like many other Christians I know who don't look anything like what you describe.  I don't mean this to be unkind, because I'll answer for me and you'll answer for you, but sometimes I get the idea that people with such far-flung ideas (whether sports, religion, politics, or other) do so because they like to feel unique, or persecuted.  I don't know what your motive is for ascribing such stereotyped views of so many Christians is, but I'll just say I am glad that my experience hasn't been the same.
 
LongGone said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
ALAYMAN said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Why should I feel guilt about being truthful? All one has to do is believe the Old Testament is true "as is" to get a picture of the Christian god which is completely different than that of whom Jesus taught. So yeah, those are Christian ideals which have been displayed in this country since its beginning.

And in the New Testament, having a need for a "blood-thirsty god" demanding innocence as a means to satiate vengeful desires is the core doctrine of Christianity. Why wouldn't Christians then also need to see that demand met and expected of others, if this is the god they choose to model?

Having been a "Christian" for over 45 years, I know whereof I speak.

No, Smellin' you ain't a Christian, no matter how good your current belief system makes you feel.  Denying the atonement, and slew of other cardinal doctrines shows your character.  I'm truly sorry to say that.  You can continue to lie about what Christians advocate, but they will nonetheless be your own lies and experiences within your own head and heart.  To portray the majority, or anything near it, of Christians as racist, sexist, etc, etc, etc, as you have shows you lack a sense of reality.  Maybe Tarheel is right about you and Hyles did such a number on you that your sense of Christianity is simply a caricature.

MAYBE Tarheel is right?
MAYBE!!??

:D

Highly unlikely but would be first ;)

First. Is that the number Hyles did on you?  ;D
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Route_70 said:
Hooper said:
The country was not founded by Christians.

You have been misinformed.  Just ask any of the Bible-toting, Praise-and-worshipping, Sunday-attending, pure-as-the-driven-snow "Christians" on this forum.

Exactly. "But abortion!" makes Trump the "Christian" candidate. A "praying cabinet" makes the government "Christian".

I will agree with your original point about the founding of this country wasn't by Christians. Christians have taken it over now wielding the political forces behind their corrupt agenda.

Do you include both parties in that statement. Democrats still have "Christians" among their ranks. 
 
A few thoughts:
I really don't wan people moving into the country that want to kill me or that I'm going to be forced to support for the rest of their lives. I don't really care whether or not their tired, poor or huddled and yearning.

I want everybody to make money. It's good for the country and it makes liberals look stupid. Also, I've learned to appreciate sleeping indoors in the type of weather predicted for this evening. Money makes that possible.

Most of the founders were Christians. Their writings support this. If he said what he was accused of he was  100% correct in his assessment of the situation.

Y'all sniping at each other sounds like a bunch of middle schoolers.

Jubal Sackett

Trump annoys me but he annoys me less that Crooked Hillary and her ilk.
 
Jubal Sackett said:
A few thoughts:
I really don't wan people moving into the country that want to kill me or that I'm going to be forced to support for the rest of their lives. I don't really care whether or not their tired, poor or huddled and yearning.

I want everybody to make money. It's good for the country and it makes liberals look stupid. Also, I've learned to appreciate sleeping indoors in the type of weather predicted for this evening. Money makes that possible.

Most of the founders were Christians. Their writings support this. If he said what he was accused of he was  100% correct in his assessment of the situation.

Y'all sniping at each other sounds like a bunch of middle schoolers.

Jubal Sackett

Trump annoys me but he annoys me less that Crooked Hillary and her ilk.

My sentiment exactly.
I'm not as upset by Trump's referring to some countries as s***hole countries as I am liberals trying to turn the US into one.
 
Route_70:
History tells a very different story than what you are saying. There are many books on the subject with references but these two articles may be a good start.

A Few Declarations of Founding Fathers and Early Statesmen on Jesus, Christianity, and the Bible

https://wallbuilders.com/founding-fathers-jesus-christianity-bible/

John Adams
John Quincy Adams
Samuel Adams
Josiah Bartlett
Gunning Bedford
Elias Boudinot
Jacob Broom
Charles Carroll
John Dickinson
Gabriel Duvall
Benjamin Franklin
Elbridge Gerry
Alexander Hamilton
John Hancock
John Hart
Patrick Henry
Samuel Huntington
James Iredell
John Jay
Thomas Jefferson
William Samuel Johnson
James Kent
Francis Scott Key
James Madison?
James Manning
Henry Marchant
George Mason
James McHenry
Thomas McKean
Gouverneur Morris
Jedidiah Morse
John Morton
James Otis
Robert Treat Paine
Timothy Pickering
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
John Randolph of Roanoke
Roger Sherman
Richard Stockton
Thomas Stone
Joseph Story
Caleb Strong
Zephaniah Swift
Charles Thomson
Jonathan Trumbull
Daniel Webster
Noah Webster
John Witherspoon
Oliver Wolcott

 
Quotes of the Founding Fathers on Religion
by Mary Fairchild

https://www.thoughtco.com/christian-quotes-of-the-founding-fathers-700789

No one can deny that many of the founding fathers of the United States of America were men of deep religious convictions based in the Bible and faith in Jesus Christ. Of the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence, nearly half (24) held seminary or Bible school degrees.
 
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