The Old Paths

[wtyson]

Ok, after the Sunday hit parade from the 'old paths' folks you would think that America has had revival and nearly everyone in America has gotten saved. I know you think I am embellishing but I would just ask you to go and read all the tweets from the twits. Altars were full, tons saved, and scores baptized. Let's have a funeral for 'dead churches' etc.

I am kind of glad for it, kind of question it, and kind of sick at all the bravado from the old paths guys. Just put your money where your mouths are. (it will never happen)

Thankful for any ministry that is seeing being saved.  Frankly, it is refreshing to hear the reports from around the country of what God is doing...better than watching the depressing news....

What do you mean by "put your money where your mouths are. (It will never happen)

Thanks!

Let me explain. I was a member of FBCH for 25 years and graduated from hac. On a Sunday night several years ago one of our members had a visitor who was either a new christian or yet unsaved even though he had been there a couple of times before. This guy was showing the visitor around and as they were standing at the railing he told him that we had baptized over 10,000 people a year for the past couple of years. The guy just looked around and asked in an innocent voice, "Where are they?"

Just in the past couple of months I have started reading some of the twitter feeds from prominent ifb evangelists, pastors, etc. and it is just "Oh my goodness!" You will have a hard time finding an olympic gold medalist or professional athlete with more bravado than these guys. "God showed up in our service! Altars full and warm all day! Hundred saved! Decisions made!"

Now, I am fine and good with all of it but then why do so many of the churches look so sparce? Why are their bible colleges dying slow deaths? Enough bragging already.

Thanks for the clarification! I agree that every Bible believing church needs to do a better job at discipleship. I have told our folks for many years that the Great Commission is not finished when we lead someone to Christ, it has just begun!

I would further say that there is always going to be false professions, there will always be those who do not go far in their walk with God but we should all rejoice when someone comes to Christ.

Where I would challenge you is your summation that IFB colleges are dying...WCBC is thriving, Commonwealth has a record enrollments, Vision in its third year is growing and small schools are being started all over America. I rejoice in any young person pursuing a Christian education that has a desire to serve our Saviour. He is worthy.  We need more young people focused on heavenly ambition rather than wood, hay and stubble...

Instead of us crushing each other verbally, how about some solutions? I am interested in how you disciple? how does your church retain more of those folks who make professions of faith? We have had thousands ride our buses to church and make professions of faith, I being one of them, but many don't stay...I am heartbroken. While we have many successes we have many failures.  We are doing all that we can to get young people and families connected. I am open to suggestion...council this fundamental Baptist pastor, publically or private.

 

[BALAAM]

Ok, after the Sunday hit parade from the 'old paths' folks you would think that America has had revival and nearly everyone in America has gotten saved. I know you think I am embellishing but I would just ask you to go and read all the tweets from the twits. Altars were full, tons saved, and scores baptized. Let's have a funeral for 'dead churches' etc.

I am kind of glad for it, kind of question it, and kind of sick at all the bravado from the old paths guys. Just put your money where your mouths are. (it will never happen)

Thankful for any ministry that is seeing being saved.  Frankly, it is refreshing to hear the reports from around the country of what God is doing...better than watching the depressing news....

What do you mean by "put your money where your mouths are. (It will never happen)

Thanks!

Let me explain. I was a member of FBCH for 25 years and graduated from hac. On a Sunday night several years ago one of our members had a visitor who was either a new christian or yet unsaved even though he had been there a couple of times before. This guy was showing the visitor around and as they were standing at the railing he told him that we had baptized over 10,000 people a year for the past couple of years. The guy just looked around and asked in an innocent voice, "Where are they?"

Just in the past couple of months I have started reading some of the twitter feeds from prominent ifb evangelists, pastors, etc. and it is just "Oh my goodness!" You will have a hard time finding an olympic gold medalist or professional athlete with more bravado than these guys. "God showed up in our service! Altars full and warm all day! Hundred saved! Decisions made!"

Now, I am fine and good with all of it but then why do so many of the churches look so sparce? Why are their bible colleges dying slow deaths? Enough bragging already.

Thanks for the clarification! I agree that every Bible believing church needs to do a better job at discipleship. I have told our folks for many years that the Great Commission is not finished when we lead someone to Christ, it has just begun!

I would further say that there is always going to be false professions, there will always be those who do not go far in their walk with God but we should all rejoice when someone comes to Christ.

Where I would challenge you is your summation that IFB colleges are dying...WCBC is thriving, Commonwealth has a record enrollments, Vision in its third year is growing and small schools are being started all over America. I rejoice in any young person pursuing a Christian education that has a desire to serve our Saviour. He is worthy.  We need more young people focused on heavenly ambition rather than wood, hay and stubble...

Instead of us crushing each other verbally, how about some solutions? I am interested in how you disciple? how does your church retain more of those folks who make professions of faith? We have had thousands ride our buses to church and make professions of faith, I being one of them, but many don't stay...I am heartbroken. While we have many successes we have many failures.  We are doing all that we can to get young people and families connected. I am open to suggestion...council this fundamental Baptist pastor, publically or private.

Crushing each other verbally? Dude, you have a twitter account!. Look at what your ifb bretheren do on there and then talk about crushing each other verbally.

 

[wtyson]

Ok, after the Sunday hit parade from the 'old paths' folks you would think that America has had revival and nearly everyone in America has gotten saved. I know you think I am embellishing but I would just ask you to go and read all the tweets from the twits. Altars were full, tons saved, and scores baptized. Let's have a funeral for 'dead churches' etc.

I am kind of glad for it, kind of question it, and kind of sick at all the bravado from the old paths guys. Just put your money where your mouths are. (it will never happen)

Thankful for any ministry that is seeing being saved.  Frankly, it is refreshing to hear the reports from around the country of what God is doing...better than watching the depressing news....

What do you mean by "put your money where your mouths are. (It will never happen)

Thanks!

Let me explain. I was a member of FBCH for 25 years and graduated from hac. On a Sunday night several years ago one of our members had a visitor who was either a new christian or yet unsaved even though he had been there a couple of times before. This guy was showing the visitor around and as they were standing at the railing he told him that we had baptized over 10,000 people a year for the past couple of years. The guy just looked around and asked in an innocent voice, "Where are they?"

Just in the past couple of months I have started reading some of the twitter feeds from prominent ifb evangelists, pastors, etc. and it is just "Oh my goodness!" You will have a hard time finding an olympic gold medalist or professional athlete with more bravado than these guys. "God showed up in our service! Altars full and warm all day! Hundred saved! Decisions made!"

Now, I am fine and good with all of it but then why do so many of the churches look so sparce? Why are their bible colleges dying slow deaths? Enough bragging already.

Thanks for the clarification! I agree that every Bible believing church needs to do a better job at discipleship. I have told our folks for many years that the Great Commission is not finished when we lead someone to Christ, it has just begun!

I would further say that there is always going to be false professions, there will always be those who do not go far in their walk with God but we should all rejoice when someone comes to Christ.

Where I would challenge you is your summation that IFB colleges are dying...WCBC is thriving, Commonwealth has a record enrollments, Vision in its third year is growing and small schools are being started all over America. I rejoice in any young person pursuing a Christian education that has a desire to serve our Saviour. He is worthy.  We need more young people focused on heavenly ambition rather than wood, hay and stubble...

Instead of us crushing each other verbally, how about some solutions? I am interested in how you disciple? how does your church retain more of those folks who make professions of faith? We have had thousands ride our buses to church and make professions of faith, I being one of them, but many don't stay...I am heartbroken. While we have many successes we have many failures.  We are doing all that we can to get young people and families connected. I am open to suggestion...council this fundamental Baptist pastor, publically or private.

Crushing each other verbally? Dude, you have a twitter account!. Look at what your ifb bretheren do on there and then talk about crushing each other verbally.

While I would be the first to say that I have been drawn into Twitter debate I have always tried to use my Twitter account to encourage, to share the blessings of God and to share principles.
I would venture to say that I have been on the FFF just as long if not longer if you go back to the previous forum than most on today. Those days were brutal, I can say, not much positive came out of that experience.
I didn't leave a better Christian, I left with a more confrontational spirit.

I won't tell you I have never debated on Twitter or social media but I have tried to avoid personal attacks on my brothers in Christ and focused on principles and practices. I don't want to be drawn into fights. I shared this Old Paths post out of a desire to share perspective. I have been attacked personally on many occasions. I would rather keep my dialogue direct but with care, true but with class. No one is my enemy even if I disagree with you.

Answer to the second half of my question?

 

[Mathew Ward]

One on one discipleship seems to work best. Folks like to see Christianity modeled they don't need something they have to mimic.

 

[wtyson]

One on one discipleship seems to work best. Folks like to see Christianity modeled they don't need something they have to mimic.

Great thought...we need a generation of Christians who understand their responsibility to be salt and light and share and SHOW the love of Christ.  Appreciate that answer.

 

[sword]

One on one discipleship seems to work best. Folks like to see Christianity modeled they don't need something they have to mimic.

Great thought...we need a generation of Christians who understand their responsibility to be salt and light and share and SHOW the love of Christ.  Appreciate that answer.

I think the reason many IFB churches, and others as well, focus on evangelism and ignore discipleship is because the later takes organization and a lot of work. Anyone can go out an hour a week and knock on doors, visit some new prospects or hit a few rooms at hit nursing home or hospital. To spend 6 or 8 weeks or longer. one on one, teaching someone the basic principals of Christianity is another story.

 

[sword]

I think the answer to the growth problem in many IFB churches is 3 fold.

First: I think many IFB churches are disorganized and poorly managed, so you see very little results for their efforts. They have pastors who love God and want to make a difference but no plan to make it happen.  Without proper planning & follow up you are not likely to see long term results from your efforts. The ministries that are the most effective in growing a church take a lot work.  A poorly run church will never attract new members or grow.

Second: I think some IFB churches are way too hard on new converts and can be downright hateful if you do not conform to their ideas of how a new Christian should behave. They do not give new church members time to mature in the Lord & to learn what the bible teaches. They stress hard preaching & teaching, when a baby Christian needs a lot of love, attention & milk. If you have a lot of 1st time visitors (Sunday morning) and very few 2nd time visitors, you should be asking yourself some questions.

Third: the great commission involves more than just presenting the gospel & seeing people saved. Gods plan to get the message out involves replication. If each Christian would see 3 people saved, discipled, and trained to go out and do the same every year, the math gets interesting. Christianity would flourish in just a few years, if we all would just follow Gods plan for reaching the world. You don't need 3000 added to one church at one time to see millions saved. You just need people willing to go and then willing to invest the time needed to train others to do as they have done.

 

[Bruh]

Ok, after the Sunday hit parade from the 'old paths' folks you would think that America has had revival and nearly everyone in America has gotten saved. I know you think I am embellishing but I would just ask you to go and read all the tweets from the twits. Altars were full, tons saved, and scores baptized. Let's have a funeral for 'dead churches' etc.

I am kind of glad for it, kind of question it, and kind of sick at all the bravado from the old paths guys. Just put your money where your mouths are. (it will never happen)

Thankful for any ministry that is seeing being saved.  Frankly, it is refreshing to hear the reports from around the country of what God is doing...better than watching the depressing news....

What do you mean by "put your money where your mouths are. (It will never happen)

Thanks!

Let me explain. I was a member of FBCH for 25 years and graduated from hac. On a Sunday night several years ago one of our members had a visitor who was either a new christian or yet unsaved even though he had been there a couple of times before. This guy was showing the visitor around and as they were standing at the railing he told him that we had baptized over 10,000 people a year for the past couple of years. The guy just looked around and asked in an innocent voice, "Where are they?"

Just in the past couple of months I have started reading some of the twitter feeds from prominent ifb evangelists, pastors, etc. and it is just "Oh my goodness!" You will have a hard time finding an olympic gold medalist or professional athlete with more bravado than these guys. "God showed up in our service! Altars full and warm all day! Hundred saved! Decisions made!"

Now, I am fine and good with all of it but then why do so many of the churches look so sparce? Why are their bible colleges dying slow deaths? Enough bragging already.

Thanks for the clarification! I agree that every Bible believing church needs to do a better job at discipleship. I have told our folks for many years that the Great Commission is not finished when we lead someone to Christ, it has just begun!

I would further say that there is always going to be false professions, there will always be those who do not go far in their walk with God but we should all rejoice when someone comes to Christ.

Where I would challenge you is your summation that IFB colleges are dying...WCBC is thriving, Commonwealth has a record enrollments, Vision in its third year is growing and small schools are being started all over America. I rejoice in any young person pursuing a Christian education that has a desire to serve our Saviour. He is worthy.  We need more young people focused on heavenly ambition rather than wood, hay and stubble...

Instead of us crushing each other verbally, how about some solutions? I am interested in how you disciple? how does your church retain more of those folks who make professions of faith? We have had thousands ride our buses to church and make professions of faith, I being one of them, but many don't stay...I am heartbroken. While we have many successes we have many failures.  We are doing all that we can to get young people and families connected. I am open to suggestion...council this fundamental Baptist pastor, publically or private.

IMO, part of the problem for sure, is that these young people go to a place like WCBC for 4 years and are amazed by this huge ministry. Instead of going back to their home church they are asked to stay or just stay and the home church suffers all the while WCBC continues to "thrive".

 

[Mathew Ward]

I think the answer to the growth problem in many IFB churches is 3 fold.

First: I think many IFB churches are disorganized and poorly managed, so you see very little results for their efforts. They have pastors who love God and want to make a difference but no plan to make it happen.  Without proper planning & follow up you are not likely to see long term results from your efforts. The ministries that are the most effective in growing a church take a lot work.  A poorly run church will never attract new members or grow.

Second: I think some IFB churches are way too hard on new converts and can be downright hateful if you do not conform to their ideas of how a new Christian should behave. They do not give new church members time to mature in the Lord & to learn what the bible teaches. They stress hard preaching & teaching, when a baby Christian needs a lot of love, attention & milk. If you have a lot of 1st time visitors (Sunday morning) and very few 2nd time visitors, you should be asking yourself some questions.

Third: the great commission involves more than just presenting the gospel & seeing people saved. Gods plan to get the message out involves replication. If each Christian would see 3 people saved, discipled, and trained to go out and do the same every year, the math gets interesting. Christianity would flourish in just a few years, if we all would just follow Gods plan for reaching the world. You don't need 3000 added to one church at one time to see millions saved. You just need people willing to go and then willing to invest the time needed to train others to do as they have done.

When you see the gospel as a decision (as many IFB's do) then you have too small of view of the gospel. But many times this view of the gospel as a decision is a results of a performance based Christianity that is looking at results.

We should have a larger view of the gospel and see it as making disciples and not making a decision.

 

[Bruh]

I think the answer to the growth problem in many IFB churches is 3 fold.

First: I think many IFB churches are disorganized and poorly managed, so you see very little results for their efforts. They have pastors who love God and want to make a difference but no plan to make it happen.  Without proper planning & follow up you are not likely to see long term results from your efforts. The ministries that are the most effective in growing a church take a lot work.  A poorly run church will never attract new members or grow.

Second: I think some IFB churches are way too hard on new converts and can be downright hateful if you do not conform to their ideas of how a new Christian should behave. They do not give new church members time to mature in the Lord & to learn what the bible teaches. They stress hard preaching & teaching, when a baby Christian needs a lot of love, attention & milk. If you have a lot of 1st time visitors (Sunday morning) and very few 2nd time visitors, you should be asking yourself some questions.

Third: the great commission involves more than just presenting the gospel & seeing people saved. Gods plan to get the message out involves replication. If each Christian would see 3 people saved, discipled, and trained to go out and do the same every year, the math gets interesting. Christianity would flourish in just a few years, if we all would just follow Gods plan for reaching the world. You don't need 3000 added to one church at one time to see millions saved. You just need people willing to go and then willing to invest the time needed to train others to do as they have done.

IMO, part of the problem for sure, is that these young people go to a place like WCBC for 4 years and are amazed by this huge ministry. Instead of going back to their home church they are asked to stay or just stay and the home church suffers all the while WCBC continues to "thrive".

 

[wtyson]

I think the answer to the growth problem in many IFB churches is 3 fold.

First: I think many IFB churches are disorganized and poorly managed, so you see very little results for their efforts. They have pastors who love God and want to make a difference but no plan to make it happen.  Without proper planning & follow up you are not likely to see long term results from your efforts. The ministries that are the most effective in growing a church take a lot work.  A poorly run church will never attract new members or grow.

Second: I think some IFB churches are way too hard on new converts and can be downright hateful if you do not conform to their ideas of how a new Christian should behave. They do not give new church members time to mature in the Lord & to learn what the bible teaches. They stress hard preaching & teaching, when a baby Christian needs a lot of love, attention & milk. If you have a lot of 1st time visitors (Sunday morning) and very few 2nd time visitors, you should be asking yourself some questions.

Third: the great commission involves more than just presenting the gospel & seeing people saved. Gods plan to get the message out involves replication. If each Christian would see 3 people saved, discipled, and trained to go out and do the same every year, the math gets interesting. Christianity would flourish in just a few years, if we all would just follow Gods plan for reaching the world. You don't need 3000 added to one church at one time to see millions saved. You just need people willing to go and then willing to invest the time needed to train others to do as they have done.

Great post! A lot of truth there. We need to get busy in this area!

 

[subllibrm]

I was asked to explain my use of the word idolatry earlier in this thread. Note my post with the dress standards used a a measure of one's spiritual condition (if not to question one's salvation, though it sure seems close to that).

That list is at risk of becoming a false God.:
"If I only dress like this I will be okay."
"If I miss one of these guidelines, I am probably not even saved."
"I had better follow these rules so that I know that I am saved."
"Oh great list of holy conformity, show me the way."
"I made it through the day without violating the list."
"I am so thankful that I am not like those ahem, christians who don't live by this list."

Take your pick, it is either legalistic sanctification or idolatrous sanctification. Cause it ain't biblical sanctification.

<crickets>

 

[subllibrm]

<snip>

I fully agree.  Usually, it is the "other side" that mocks us as if we think our standards make us closer to God. I've heard that.

But I have also heard church leaders say, disparagingly of others: "<sniff> Well, they don't have OUR standards" -- as if "OUR" standards are the only right ones and the ones not  following OUR camp are not worth notice.

Turn those around and see what is there. Never mind, I will do it for you:

"<sniff> Well, they don't have OUR standards" -- as if "OUR" standards are the only right ones and the ones not  following OUR camp are not worth notice.

... mocks us as if we think our standards make us closer to God. [BTW it isn't as if with many of them.]

The mocking (more like disagreeing) is a reaction to the mindset you point out.

So if you don't like people judging and disagreeing with your "standards" quit trying to make your brothers and sisters in Christ adhere to them.

And before someone says "no one thinks that way" let me share this:

Gentleman's Code Of Conduct:

It is not too much for us to ask that you dress like a Christian. These are not suggestions these will be strictly enforced.
Dress clothes are requested for the evening service which includes a collared shirt.
Pants are to be worn on the waist. (Belt preferred)
No sweat pants. Cut-offs or shorts allowed FOR SWIMMING ONLY
No shirts with questionable pictures or emblems or words.
No see-through or mesh-like material shirts.
No sleeveless shirts.
No mod or faddish style clothing.
No earrings or necklaces.
Hair must be off the ears and collar. No rat tails.
Shoes must maintain nice appearance.

Ladies  Code Of Conduct:

It is not too much for us to ask that you dress like a Christian. These are not suggestions these will be strictly enforced.
Dress clothes are requested for evening services: dresses or skirts.
Modest clothing is loose fitting clothing that covers all skin from the knee to the shoulders.
No sun dresses with narrow straps or low necklines or low backs.
Modest loose fitting tops, blouses, skirts and skirt-type culottes.
No shorts, miniskirts, or pants of any kind.
Skirts, dresses, and culottes must touch the floor when kneeling.
No slits above the knee.
Modest one-piece bathing suits.
No sleeveless tops.
No mod or faddish style clothing.

Does this not say that to dress otherwise is to dress unlike a Christian? Like it or not, this makes adherence to the stated standards a measure of one's spiritual condition.

<crickets>

 

[NorrinRadd]

<snip>

I fully agree.  Usually, it is the "other side" that mocks us as if we think our standards make us closer to God. I've heard that.

But I have also heard church leaders say, disparagingly of others: "<sniff> Well, they don't have OUR standards" -- as if "OUR" standards are the only right ones and the ones not  following OUR camp are not worth notice.

Turn those around and see what is there. Never mind, I will do it for you:

"<sniff> Well, they don't have OUR standards" -- as if "OUR" standards are the only right ones and the ones not  following OUR camp are not worth notice.

... mocks us as if we think our standards make us closer to God. [BTW it isn't as if with many of them.]

The mocking (more like disagreeing) is a reaction to the mindset you point out.

So if you don't like people judging and disagreeing with your "standards" quit trying to make your brothers and sisters in Christ adhere to them.

And before someone says "no one thinks that way" let me share this:

Gentleman's Code Of Conduct:

It is not too much for us to ask that you dress like a Christian. These are not suggestions these will be strictly enforced.
Dress clothes are requested for the evening service which includes a collared shirt.
Pants are to be worn on the waist. (Belt preferred)
No sweat pants. Cut-offs or shorts allowed FOR SWIMMING ONLY
No shirts with questionable pictures or emblems or words.
No see-through or mesh-like material shirts.
No sleeveless shirts.
No mod or faddish style clothing.
No earrings or necklaces.
Hair must be off the ears and collar. No rat tails.
Shoes must maintain nice appearance.

Ladies  Code Of Conduct:

It is not too much for us to ask that you dress like a Christian. These are not suggestions these will be strictly enforced.
Dress clothes are requested for evening services: dresses or skirts.
Modest clothing is loose fitting clothing that covers all skin from the knee to the shoulders.
No sun dresses with narrow straps or low necklines or low backs.
Modest loose fitting tops, blouses, skirts and skirt-type culottes.
No shorts, miniskirts, or pants of any kind.
Skirts, dresses, and culottes must touch the floor when kneeling.
No slits above the knee.
Modest one-piece bathing suits.
No sleeveless tops.
No mod or faddish style clothing.

Does this not say that to dress otherwise is to dress unlike a Christian? Like it or not, this makes adherence to the stated standards a measure of one's spiritual condition.

<crickets>

I can't decide whether that's hilarious or tragic.  I thought the AoG's "holiness" torah was crazy, but that pile there is above and beyond.

Is there a link to an original source for that list?

 

[Walt]

Ok, after the Sunday hit parade from the 'old paths' folks you would think that America has had revival and nearly everyone in America has gotten saved. I know you think I am embellishing but I would just ask you to go and read all the tweets from the twits. Altars were full, tons saved, and scores baptized. Let's have a funeral for 'dead churches' etc.

I am kind of glad for it, kind of question it, and kind of sick at all the bravado from the old paths guys. Just put your money where your mouths are. (it will never happen)

Thankful for any ministry that is seeing being saved.  Frankly, it is refreshing to hear the reports from around the country of what God is doing...better than watching the depressing news....

What do you mean by "put your money where your mouths are. (It will never happen)

Thanks!

Let me explain. I was a member of FBCH for 25 years and graduated from hac. On a Sunday night several years ago one of our members had a visitor who was either a new christian or yet unsaved even though he had been there a couple of times before. This guy was showing the visitor around and as they were standing at the railing he told him that we had baptized over 10,000 people a year for the past couple of years. The guy just looked around and asked in an innocent voice, "Where are they?"

Just in the past couple of months I have started reading some of the twitter feeds from prominent ifb evangelists, pastors, etc. and it is just "Oh my goodness!" You will have a hard time finding an olympic gold medalist or professional athlete with more bravado than these guys. "God showed up in our service! Altars full and warm all day! Hundred saved! Decisions made!"

Now, I am fine and good with all of it but then why do so many of the churches look so sparce? Why are their bible colleges dying slow deaths? Enough bragging already.

Part of the problem is the teaching that a "good" church member goes forward at every invitation to make the pastor feel good. They say "If the Holy Spirit touched you about something, then come forward and pray about it; if He didn't touch your heart about anything, come forward and pray for yourself".  Thus they boast about full altars or people praying at alters .

When we tell people that praying a prayer will ensure that they go to heaven, we have descended to peddling witchcraft: "these words are a magic spell that will get you to heaven" - the words should be flowing from a repentant heart.

 

[BALAAM]

I really don't like to argue or take Pastor Tyson to task. He along with Tom Brennan, have  been by far the most cordial people on here.

But, here is a tweet from one of his cohorts:

Bad preaching makes a better you;
Bible preaching makes a deader you.

What are we supposed to make of this? All the while decrying entertainment, tv, sports, etc.

 

[wtyson]

I really don't like to argue or take Pastor Tyson to task. He along with Tom Brennan, have  been by far the most cordial people on here.

But, here is a tweet from one of his cohorts:

Bad preaching makes a better you;
Bible preaching makes a deader you.

What are we supposed to make of this? All the while decrying entertainment, tv, sports, etc.

That one has me scratching my head as well...
Not sure what the context is there...

I can assure you my "cohorts" don't get their tweets pre-approved by me. LOL My DM box is full of those who question me regularly on my positions and stance. I have always tried to answer questions and continue dialogue.  The schedule is full so sometimes it takes time to respond!

 

[Walt]

Ok, after the Sunday hit parade from the 'old paths' folks you would think that America has had revival and nearly everyone in America has gotten saved. I know you think I am embellishing but I would just ask you to go and read all the tweets from the twits. Altars were full, tons saved, and scores baptized. Let's have a funeral for 'dead churches' etc.

I am kind of glad for it, kind of question it, and kind of sick at all the bravado from the old paths guys. Just put your money where your mouths are. (it will never happen)

Thankful for any ministry that is seeing being saved.  Frankly, it is refreshing to hear the reports from around the country of what God is doing...better than watching the depressing news....

What do you mean by "put your money where your mouths are. (It will never happen)

Thanks!

Let me explain. I was a member of FBCH for 25 years and graduated from hac. On a Sunday night several years ago one of our members had a visitor who was either a new christian or yet unsaved even though he had been there a couple of times before. This guy was showing the visitor around and as they were standing at the railing he told him that we had baptized over 10,000 people a year for the past couple of years. The guy just looked around and asked in an innocent voice, "Where are they?"

Just in the past couple of months I have started reading some of the twitter feeds from prominent ifb evangelists, pastors, etc. and it is just "Oh my goodness!" You will have a hard time finding an olympic gold medalist or professional athlete with more bravado than these guys. "God showed up in our service! Altars full and warm all day! Hundred saved! Decisions made!"

Now, I am fine and good with all of it but then why do so many of the churches look so sparce? Why are their bible colleges dying slow deaths? Enough bragging already.

Thanks for the clarification! I agree that every Bible believing church needs to do a better job at discipleship. I have told our folks for many years that the Great Commission is not finished when we lead someone to Christ, it has just begun!

I would further say that there is always going to be false professions, there will always be those who do not go far in their walk with God but we should all rejoice when someone comes to Christ.

Where I would challenge you is your summation that IFB colleges are dying...WCBC is thriving, Commonwealth has a record enrollments, Vision in its third year is growing and small schools are being started all over America. I rejoice in any young person pursuing a Christian education that has a desire to serve our Saviour. He is worthy.  We need more young people focused on heavenly ambition rather than wood, hay and stubble...

Instead of us crushing each other verbally, how about some solutions? I am interested in how you disciple? how does your church retain more of those folks who make professions of faith? We have had thousands ride our buses to church and make professions of faith, I being one of them, but many don't stay...I am heartbroken. While we have many successes we have many failures.  We are doing all that we can to get young people and families connected. I am open to suggestion...council this fundamental Baptist pastor, publically or private.

Crushing each other verbally? Dude, you have a twitter account!. Look at what your ifb bretheren do on there and then talk about crushing each other verbally.

While I would be the first to say that I have been drawn into Twitter debate I have always tried to use my Twitter account to encourage, to share the blessings of God and to share principles.
I would venture to say that I have been on the FFF just as long if not longer if you go back to the previous forum than most on today. Those days were brutal, I can say, not much positive came out of that experience.
I didn't leave a better Christian, I left with a more confrontational spirit.

I won't tell you I have never debated on Twitter or social media but I have tried to avoid personal attacks on my brothers in Christ and focused on principles and practices. I don't want to be drawn into fights. I shared this Old Paths post out of a desire to share perspective. I have been attacked personally on many occasions. I would rather keep my dialogue direct but with care, true but with class. No one is my enemy even if I disagree with you.

Answer to the second half of my question?

I would say that Twitter posts to the effect that "I'm a better pastor/evangelist than you are" (by overt bragging about results/numbers) is un-Christian for a couple of reasons:
1) Though the poster may not want to sound braggadocios, it came come across that way and it (dangerously) encourages pride
2) There is no example of any pastor or missionary in the New Testament giving numbers; the numbers we have were provided by the Holy Spirit.

How does one share God's blessings without sounding as if we're bragging about ourselves -- typical post: "Praise God! We had 50 teens out soul-winning and saw 500 saved"

 

[wtyson]

Ok, after the Sunday hit parade from the 'old paths' folks you would think that America has had revival and nearly everyone in America has gotten saved. I know you think I am embellishing but I would just ask you to go and read all the tweets from the twits. Altars were full, tons saved, and scores baptized. Let's have a funeral for 'dead churches' etc.

I am kind of glad for it, kind of question it, and kind of sick at all the bravado from the old paths guys. Just put your money where your mouths are. (it will never happen)

Thankful for any ministry that is seeing being saved.  Frankly, it is refreshing to hear the reports from around the country of what God is doing...better than watching the depressing news....

What do you mean by "put your money where your mouths are. (It will never happen)

Thanks!

Let me explain. I was a member of FBCH for 25 years and graduated from hac. On a Sunday night several years ago one of our members had a visitor who was either a new christian or yet unsaved even though he had been there a couple of times before. This guy was showing the visitor around and as they were standing at the railing he told him that we had baptized over 10,000 people a year for the past couple of years. The guy just looked around and asked in an innocent voice, "Where are they?"

Just in the past couple of months I have started reading some of the twitter feeds from prominent ifb evangelists, pastors, etc. and it is just "Oh my goodness!" You will have a hard time finding an olympic gold medalist or professional athlete with more bravado than these guys. "God showed up in our service! Altars full and warm all day! Hundred saved! Decisions made!"

Now, I am fine and good with all of it but then why do so many of the churches look so sparce? Why are their bible colleges dying slow deaths? Enough bragging already.

Thanks for the clarification! I agree that every Bible believing church needs to do a better job at discipleship. I have told our folks for many years that the Great Commission is not finished when we lead someone to Christ, it has just begun!

I would further say that there is always going to be false professions, there will always be those who do not go far in their walk with God but we should all rejoice when someone comes to Christ.

Where I would challenge you is your summation that IFB colleges are dying...WCBC is thriving, Commonwealth has a record enrollments, Vision in its third year is growing and small schools are being started all over America. I rejoice in any young person pursuing a Christian education that has a desire to serve our Saviour. He is worthy.  We need more young people focused on heavenly ambition rather than wood, hay and stubble...

Instead of us crushing each other verbally, how about some solutions? I am interested in how you disciple? how does your church retain more of those folks who make professions of faith? We have had thousands ride our buses to church and make professions of faith, I being one of them, but many don't stay...I am heartbroken. While we have many successes we have many failures.  We are doing all that we can to get young people and families connected. I am open to suggestion...council this fundamental Baptist pastor, publically or private.

Crushing each other verbally? Dude, you have a twitter account!. Look at what your ifb bretheren do on there and then talk about crushing each other verbally.

While I would be the first to say that I have been drawn into Twitter debate I have always tried to use my Twitter account to encourage, to share the blessings of God and to share principles.
I would venture to say that I have been on the FFF just as long if not longer if you go back to the previous forum than most on today. Those days were brutal, I can say, not much positive came out of that experience.
I didn't leave a better Christian, I left with a more confrontational spirit.

I won't tell you I have never debated on Twitter or social media but I have tried to avoid personal attacks on my brothers in Christ and focused on principles and practices. I don't want to be drawn into fights. I shared this Old Paths post out of a desire to share perspective. I have been attacked personally on many occasions. I would rather keep my dialogue direct but with care, true but with class. No one is my enemy even if I disagree with you.

Answer to the second half of my question?

I would say that Twitter posts to the effect that "I'm a better pastor/evangelist than you are" (by overt bragging about results/numbers) is un-Christian for a couple of reasons:
1) Though the poster may not want to sound braggadocios, it came come across that way and it (dangerously) encourages pride
2) There is no example of any pastor or missionary in the New Testament giving numbers; the numbers we have were provided by the Holy Spirit.

How does one share God's blessings without sounding as if we're bragging about ourselves -- typical post: "Praise God! We had 50 teens out soul-winning and saw 500 saved"

While any of us would be susceptible to prideful posts I am encouraged by the reports of folks being saved.

It seems like IFB critics are always saying fundamentalism is dying yet when IFB preachers share exciting news of growth and souls saved it is greeted with criticism rather than rejoicing.

As far as the NT example, I believe we should certainly be aware of our intentions, I agree, but it is not unscriptural to share with the world what God is doing in a ministry.

Would you rejoice if 50 teenagers were out soul winning at your church? I would. Souls saved...without apology. There is a great deal of presumption being made of IFB preachers and what they post. Are some prideful, sure, all of them, no way.

I will continue to share what God is doing in our ministry because I rejoice in what God is doing. I am thankful for the hard working volunteers. I get the privilege of pastoring my heroes. When something exciting is happening, I am going to share it...when it is happening somewhere else, I will rejoice with them as well.

 

[deertracks]

I really don't like to argue or take Pastor Tyson to task. He along with Tom Brennan, have  been by far the most cordial people on here.

But, here is a tweet from one of his cohorts:

Bad preaching makes a better you;
Bible preaching makes a deader you.

What are we supposed to make of this? All the while decrying entertainment, tv, sports, etc.

I agree tough to follow but I think he possibly meant that Bible preaching gives us a desire to die to self and its worldly desires.........I guess.