Tithing.... "BUYING" God's blessings

[praise_yeshua]

Obviously you only follow Paul's example when it fits your lifestyle choices.

As in not needing the church's money? That's right.

In not demanding/expecting the church pay you for your services.

 

[subllibrm]

Obviously you only follow Paul's example when it fits your lifestyle choices.

As in not needing the church's money? That's right.

In not demanding/expecting the church pay you for your services.

Is demanding/expecting his services for free better?

 

[Mathew Ward]

Works based sanctification is bad, whether tithe, soulwinning, Bible reading, or whatever.  Our salvation in all respects of it are due to His grace.  In that respect, you are right, too many churches are heavy on law, thin on grace.

Agreed.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Colossians 2:6

 

[praise_yeshua]

Obviously you only follow Paul's example when it fits your lifestyle choices.

As in not needing the church's money? That's right.

In not demanding/expecting the church pay you for your services.

Is demanding/expecting his services for free better?

Ask Paul.

Ask Jesus. obviously don't care what Jesus said about it.

Matthew 10:8 Freely you have received; freely give.

You didn't buy anything from God. You have no right to charge others for giving to them ......what you've freely receive from God.

 

[subllibrm]

Obviously you only follow Paul's example when it fits your lifestyle choices.

As in not needing the church's money? That's right.

In not demanding/expecting the church pay you for your services.

Is demanding/expecting his services for free better?

Ask Paul.

Ask Jesus. obviously don't care what Jesus said about it.

Matthew 10:8 Freely you have received; freely give.

You didn't buy anything from God. You have no right to charge others for giving to them what you've freely receive from God.

I don't "receive" anything tangible from my pastor (well I guess the handshakes could qualify as tangible) and I don't "give" him anything in return. At least not any more or less than any other of the brethren.

I do "give" to my church to meet the expenses inherent in having hundreds of people collectively working for the kingdom. Among those expenses are providing for a number of staff people an income in return for their labor.

Now let me ask you this. Do you have the same burr under your saddle about the secretary or the custodian that you do about the pastor? We pay them as well but I don't recall any great lament about them getting "paid" instead of doing the Lord's work out of the goodness of their heart.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Obviously you only follow Paul's example when it fits your lifestyle choices.

As in not needing the church's money? That's right.

In not demanding/expecting the church pay you for your services.

Is demanding/expecting his services for free better?

Ask Paul.

Ask Jesus. obviously don't care what Jesus said about it.

Matthew 10:8 Freely you have received; freely give.

You didn't buy anything from God. You have no right to charge others for giving to them what you've freely receive from God.

I don't "receive" anything tangible from my pastor (well I guess the handshakes could qualify as tangible) and I don't "give" him anything in return. At least not any more or less than any other of the brethren.

I do "give" to my church to meet the expenses inherent in having hundreds of people collectively working for the kingdom. Among those expenses are providing for a number of staff people an income in return for their labor.

Now let me ask you this. Do you have the same burr under your saddle about the secretary or the custodian that you do about the pastor? We pay them as well but I don't recall any great lament about them getting "paid" instead of doing the Lord's work out of the goodness of their heart.

You're the one singling out different function. I made no distinct.

I know what Jesus said. I know what the Scriptures say. Justifying your own actions doesn't account for the simple statements I refenced from the Scriptures.

Not muzzling the ox isn't giving him a portion of the field for his own.

 

[subllibrm]

Obviously you only follow Paul's example when it fits your lifestyle choices.

As in not needing the church's money? That's right.

In not demanding/expecting the church pay you for your services.

Is demanding/expecting his services for free better?

Ask Paul.

Ask Jesus. obviously don't care what Jesus said about it.

Matthew 10:8 Freely you have received; freely give.

You didn't buy anything from God. You have no right to charge others for giving to them what you've freely receive from God.

I don't "receive" anything tangible from my pastor (well I guess the handshakes could qualify as tangible) and I don't "give" him anything in return. At least not any more or less than any other of the brethren.

I do "give" to my church to meet the expenses inherent in having hundreds of people collectively working for the kingdom. Among those expenses are providing for a number of staff people an income in return for their labor.

Now let me ask you this. Do you have the same burr under your saddle about the secretary or the custodian that you do about the pastor? We pay them as well but I don't recall any great lament about them getting "paid" instead of doing the Lord's work out of the goodness of their heart.

You're the one singling out different function. I made no distinct.

I know what Jesus said. I know what the Scriptures say. Justifying your own actions doesn't account for the simple statements I refenced from the Scriptures.

Not muzzling the ox isn't giving him a portion of the field for his own.

I have no idea what it is that are trying to say.

 

[Mathew Ward]

How do pastor's support their family?
How does a church pay for its ministries?
How do missionaries get sent to foreign countries?

Is there a difference between tithing and giving?

I guess the simple answer is yes, but it is a definition of some semantics.

Tithing is tenthing, or giving a tenth of ones' increase. Giving is, well, any amount including the tithe.

Some people pay their tithe, like they would a bill. It may not be considered giving.

Giving should come from the heart and should be done in faith.

 

[subllibrm]

How do pastor's support their family?
How does a church pay for its ministries?
How do missionaries get sent to foreign countries?

Is there a difference between tithing and giving?

I guess the simple answer is yes, but it is a definition of some semantics.

Tithing is tenthing, or giving a tenth of ones' increase. Giving is, well, any amount including the tithe.

Some people pay their tithe, like they would a bill. It may not be considered giving.

Giving should come from the heart and should be done in faith.

While it is true that SOME people PAY a tithe that does not change the fact that MOST people give and it may or may not be a tithe (tenth).

The plate goes by and I put a gift into it. Why is this so hard?

 

[FSSL]

PY the Bernie Sanders of FFF.

 

[praise_yeshua]

PY the Bernie Sanders of FFF.

FSSL the Hillary Clinton of FFF

 

[FSSL]

FSSL the Hillary Clinton of FFF

Hey! That was MY joke! Get your own material!

 

[Bob H]

How do pastor's support their family?
How does a church pay for its ministries?
How do missionaries get sent to foreign countries?

Is there a difference between tithing and giving?

Not really

 

[Bob H]

I prefer to have a pastor who is able to spend 40+ hours a week in bible study and prayer than one who is worn out from working 40+ hours in a secular job to only have far less hours in bible study and prayer.

I guess you get what you honor.

Agreed..................Some of these dudes here might not know about working hard for 40+ hrs a week so they may think it's easy to do both 

 

[brianb]

God mainly wants you not your money. It's all his any ways and we are stewards.  You can't buy God's blessings. That was never the point of tithing. There are however benefits to a church that's tithing or regularly giving 10% or more which I don't need to go into. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

I prefer to have a pastor who is able to spend 40+ hours a week in bible study and prayer than one who is worn out from working 40+ hours in a secular job to only have far less hours in bible study and prayer.

I guess you get what you honor.

Agreed..................Some of these dudes here might not know about working hard for 40+ hrs a week so they may think it's easy to do both 

Yeah... since you're SO.... experienced...

 

[BALAAM]

I am not sure really how many of you have ever followed the evolution of teaching on the 'tithe' but I have quite a bit because in IFB circles you will not go a week without hearing someone speaking on tithing and giving. So here goes, and I can promise you that if you follow a lot of the teaching this is a pretty true scenario.

A homeless man with 25 cents in his pocket is sleeping on the street in Chicago. A loving(?) church worker comes by and asks him if he wants a ride to church where he will be fed, clothed, cleaned, and generally taken care of for the day. He says okay and gets on the bus. Now; if you follow much of the teaching on tithing here is what is going to happen:

Bus ride to church: Now if he took a taxi it would probably cost him $50.00 with tip so because he received this for free and it is part of his increase, he actually owes $5.00.
Breakfast: If he had the same type of breakfast in a restaurant he would generally pay about $10.00 with tip. Because this is increase he owes another                      $1.00
Free clothes: Now if he had to buy these from a store he would easily spend another $50.00 so because it is increase he owes another                                                $5.00
Preaching: Even though they don't charge for preaching it is actually entertainment and he could not get a day like this for under $20.00  So he owes another            $2.00
Lunch:  Need we go here. But, it is increase so he actually owes another                                                                                                                                                    $1.50
Cleanup: Now if this guy went to a truck stop and had to pay for a shower etc. it would be another, lets say $10.00. He owes another                                                  $1.00
Haircut: Can't get this in our area for under $10.00 so he owes another                                                                                                                                                      $1.00
Bus ride home: Oh no there goes another                                                                                                                                                                                                    $5.00
A sack lunch with a few items of food for next day                                                                                                                                                                                        $1.00

                                                                                                                                                                                                      total for one day of ministry                  $22.50

Now  here was this poor guy who was broke to begin with and now we have him owing over $20.00 in tithes for one day! Jack Hyles used to teach that in the garden of Eden there were 10 different fruit trees and one of them belonged to God. He said the original sin was actually not tithing! We pat ourselves on the backs for trying to help the homeless but if you really follow the teaching then we are actually causing him to sin and we are partakers in his sin!  Capice?

 

[bgwilkinson]

You have summed up the IFB teaching on Tithing nicely.

Well done. 

 

[Walt]

I am not sure really how many of you have ever followed the evolution of teaching on the 'tithe' but I have quite a bit because in IFB circles you will not go a week without hearing someone speaking on tithing and giving. So here goes, and I can promise you that if you follow a lot of the teaching this is a pretty true scenario.

A homeless man with 25 cents in his pocket is sleeping on the street in Chicago. A loving(?) church worker comes by and asks him if he wants a ride to church where he will be fed, clothed, cleaned, and generally taken care of for the day. He says okay and gets on the bus. Now; if you follow much of the teaching on tithing here is what is going to happen:

Bus ride to church: Now if he took a taxi it would probably cost him $50.00 with tip so because he received this for free and it is part of his increase, he actually owes $5.00.
Breakfast: If he had the same type of breakfast in a restaurant he would generally pay about $10.00 with tip. Because this is increase he owes another                      $1.00
Free clothes: Now if he had to buy these from a store he would easily spend another $50.00 so because it is increase he owes another                                                $5.00
Preaching: Even though they don't charge for preaching it is actually entertainment and he could not get a day like this for under $20.00  So he owes another            $2.00
Lunch:  Need we go here. But, it is increase so he actually owes another                                                                                                                                                    $1.50
Cleanup: Now if this guy went to a truck stop and had to pay for a shower etc. it would be another, lets say $10.00. He owes another                                                  $1.00
Haircut: Can't get this in our area for under $10.00 so he owes another                                                                                                                                                      $1.00
Bus ride home: Oh no there goes another                                                                                                                                                                                                    $5.00
A sack lunch with a few items of food for next day                                                                                                                                                                                        $1.00

                                                                                                                                                                                                      total for one day of ministry                  $22.50

Now  here was this poor guy who was broke to begin with and now we have him owing over $20.00 in tithes for one day! Jack Hyles used to teach that in the garden of Eden there were 10 different fruit trees and one of them belonged to God. He said the original sin was actually not tithing! We pat ourselves on the backs for trying to help the homeless but if you really follow the teaching then we are actually causing him to sin and we are partakers in his sin!  Capice?

It may be that this is common in IFB churches, but it was not my experience that this was preached on every week.

Jack Hyles' ideas are NOT Scripture; he's just theorizing about the number of tree types in the Garden of Eden.  It's a mildly interesting theory, but that's it.

I don't believe that people should give 10% of the gifts... if we give a gift to someone to meet a $100 need, I expect him to meet that need, not give 10% of it back to the church... and I would be very angry with missionaries who send 10% of their support back to their "home" church.

Balaam's post well points out the silliness of changing "as God has prospered you" to "increase"; I've even heard it taken to extremes that one should tithe when one saved money by buying on sale.  My offering to God is what our family made by working, and does not includes gifts or inheritance.

(Having said that, we don't require our children to tithe on birthday presents, but we encourage them to give part of it, as they like to God - we wish them to have giving hearts.  I don't have any problem with giving some of a non-designated gift.  Ditto for "cashback" awards -- I don't feel obligated to tithe on it, but I may pray and seek God's will about giving some to His work.

 

[Biblebeliever]

A lot of Hirelings, will wrongly teach that the Law of the Tithe is still in effect today, just in order to brow beat and pressure their congregation into giving. One of the reasons they do this is because of that high 'mortgage' they have on their church building. And most of the time, it is a 501c3 (State Run) Corporation, where the pastor is the CEO of that corporation.