Tom Brennan Hitting It Hard....

[Twisted]

https://concerningjesus.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-it-matters.html

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

https://concerningjesus.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-it-matters.html

Since his book Schizophrenic was published, Tom has positioned himself as a/the defender of IFB virtue.
As far as I can tell, he has a following...smaller than Chappell, Teis or Anderson, but a following nonetheless.
With the numerical decline in greater IFB-dom, there are many smaller/fractured ponds creating environments for 'bigger fish'.
His post contains nothing new, and IMO, contains NO substantive/Biblical argument.

 

[Norefund]

https://concerningjesus.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-it-matters.html

Since his book Schizophrenic was published, Tom has positioned himself as a/the defender of IFB virtue.
As far as I can tell, he has a following...smaller than Chappell, Teis or Anderson, but a following nonetheless.
With the numerical decline in greater IFB-dom, there are many smaller/fractured ponds creating environments for 'bigger fish'.
His post contains nothing new, and IMO, contains NO substantive/Biblical argument.

Well, to be fair, it wasn't exactly his post.

 

[T-Bone]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

 

[bgwilkinson]

Yep, the not a denomination, denomination.
If it walks like a duck...

 

[prophet]

https://concerningjesus.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-it-matters.html

Since his book Schizophrenic was published, Tom has positioned himself as a/the defender of IFB virtue.
As far as I can tell, he has a following...smaller than Chappell, Teis or Anderson, but a following nonetheless.
With the numerical decline in greater IFB-dom, there are many smaller/fractured ponds creating environments for 'bigger fish'.
His post contains nothing new, and IMO, contains NO substantive/Biblical argument.

To be fair, it was an intro to a series...

I may, however, somewhat agree with your take...just not the part about no scriptural argument given....yet.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[prophet]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

Yes!
And this is my generation of IB's fight!
Do we double down on Independence, in a world where social media connects us like never before?
How do we fulfill our duty, to the rest of the Body, without establishing a hierarchy?

Will we continue the pragmatism of "Pastoral Authority", that lures in deviants of every tyrannical sort?
Or will we endeavor to seek The Spirit's leading, and protect the lambs in our flock?

I feel we are poised on a cliff edge, and may no longer exist in a decade or 2.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[Norefund]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

Yes!
And this is my generation of IB's fight!
Do we double down on Independence, in a world where social media connects us like never before?
How do we fulfill our duty, to the rest of the Body, without establishing a hierarchy?

Will we continue the pragmatism of "Pastoral Authority", that lures in deviants of every tyrannical sort?
Or will we endeavor to seek The Spirit's leading, and protect the lambs in our flock?

I feel we are poised on a cliff edge, and may no longer exist in a decade or 2.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

The trend is certainly going that way. If the purpose of this series of blog posts is to divide the "true fundamentalist" vs the "neo Fundamentalist" the net result will most likely be zero fundamentalists in the future. It may go that way anyway. Instead of concentrating on core beliefs, this seems to draw the  dividing line as those who worship using  CCM vs traditional music . I;m sure future posts will take on the extremely relevant issues of pants on women, long hair on men, tattoos and other "old path" etched in stone beliefs that are violated by the neo-fundys.

Really, it sound like dividing up and choosing which room on the Titanic you want to be in. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

https://concerningjesus.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-it-matters.html

Since his book Schizophrenic was published, Tom has positioned himself as a/the defender of IFB virtue.
As far as I can tell, he has a following...smaller than Chappell, Teis or Anderson, but a following nonetheless.
With the numerical decline in greater IFB-dom, there are many smaller/fractured ponds creating environments for 'bigger fish'.
His post contains nothing new, and IMO, contains NO substantive/Biblical argument.

Well, to be fair, it wasn't exactly his post.

I was commenting on the content of the link...which is the point of the forum.
I like Tom and believe him to be honest and sincere in what he believes.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

Yes!
And this is my generation of IB's fight!
Do we double down on Independence, in a world where social media connects us like never before?
How do we fulfill our duty, to the rest of the Body, without establishing a hierarchy?

Will we continue the pragmatism of "Pastoral Authority", that lures in deviants of every tyrannical sort?
Or will we endeavor to seek The Spirit's leading, and protect the lambs in our flock?

I feel we are poised on a cliff edge, and may no longer exist in a decade or 2.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

The trend is certainly going that way. If the purpose of this series of blog posts is to divide the "true fundamentalist" vs the "neo Fundamentalist" the net result will most likely be zero fundamentalists in the future. It may go that way anyway. Instead of concentrating on core beliefs, this seems to draw the  dividing line as those who worship using  CCM vs traditional music . I;m sure future posts will take on the extremely relevant issues of pants on women, long hair on men, tattoos and other "old path" etched in stone beliefs that are violated by the neo-fundys.

Really, it sound like dividing up and choosing which room on the Titanic you want to be in.

I believe it is to define what he/they believe to be true IFBs. And the dividing line is indeed music, worship/service style, personal standards.
Which is why I said and believe that he/they have NO substantive/biblical arguments. Only their sincerely and strongly held beliefs.

 

[prophet]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

Yes!
And this is my generation of IB's fight!
Do we double down on Independence, in a world where social media connects us like never before?
How do we fulfill our duty, to the rest of the Body, without establishing a hierarchy?

Will we continue the pragmatism of "Pastoral Authority", that lures in deviants of every tyrannical sort?
Or will we endeavor to seek The Spirit's leading, and protect the lambs in our flock?

I feel we are poised on a cliff edge, and may no longer exist in a decade or 2.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

The trend is certainly going that way. If the purpose of this series of blog posts is to divide the "true fundamentalist" vs the "neo Fundamentalist" the net result will most likely be zero fundamentalists in the future. It may go that way anyway. Instead of concentrating on core beliefs, this seems to draw the  dividing line as those who worship using  CCM vs traditional music . I;m sure future posts will take on the extremely relevant issues of pants on women, long hair on men, tattoos and other "old path" etched in stone beliefs that are violated by the neo-fundys.

Really, it sound like dividing up and choosing which room on the Titanic you want to be in.

I believe it is to define what he/they believe to be true IFBs. And the dividing line is indeed music, worship/service style, personal standards.
Which is why I said and believe that he/they have NO substantive/biblical arguments. Only their sincerely and strongly held beliefs.

And that's why i call it "pragmatism".

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[Tim]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

Yes!
And this is my generation of IB's fight!
Do we double down on Independence, in a world where social media connects us like never before?
How do we fulfill our duty, to the rest of the Body, without establishing a hierarchy?

Will we continue the pragmatism of "Pastoral Authority", that lures in deviants of every tyrannical sort?
Or will we endeavor to seek The Spirit's leading, and protect the lambs in our flock?

I feel we are poised on a cliff edge, and may no longer exist in a decade or 2.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

The trend is certainly going that way. If the purpose of this series of blog posts is to divide the "true fundamentalist" vs the "neo Fundamentalist" the net result will most likely be zero fundamentalists in the future. It may go that way anyway. Instead of concentrating on core beliefs, this seems to draw the  dividing line as those who worship using  CCM vs traditional music . I;m sure future posts will take on the extremely relevant issues of pants on women, long hair on men, tattoos and other "old path" etched in stone beliefs that are violated by the neo-fundys.

Really, it sound like dividing up and choosing which room on the Titanic you want to be in.

I believe it is to define what he/they believe to be true IFBs. And the dividing line is indeed music, worship/service style, personal standards.
Which is why I said and believe that he/they have NO substantive/biblical arguments. Only their sincerely and strongly held beliefs.

I have been worshiping and participating at a local somewhat independent Southern Baptist Church the past two years since the disaster at our precious IFB Church. I needed a change. I appreciate their focus on all things "Bible" and lack of preaching and pushing goofy standards on the congregation. The verse by verse Bible teaching that has replaced the topical preaching at times becomes old and I wish they could mix it up - but they stay focus on context and don't go off the path often. And, at times, I miss the focus on hymns and Biblical translation standards - but I see younger people with passions for Christ. And, yes, I am learning that when a brother brags about drinking wine or listening to AC/DC to shut my mouth since I can't "prove from the Bible" it is sin.

BUT

Deep down though, at times, inside I feel like there is something missing. I feel like the building of Biblical standards can reflect on a genuine personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The lack of sharing them seems to cause Church to operate in a verbatim vacuum. I appreciate the older brother who shares that he feels CCM distracts from true Christianity when such convictions comes from the heart. I know my pastor doesn't like secular rock music, but he won't at least share his heart on why because it isn't totally presentable from the Bible. Instead he gives the Church the freedom to choose from our own hearts and relationships.

I don't have answers. But, when I read "they have NO substantive/biblical arguments" I pause and consider the simple basic commandment of Jesus Christ, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." and consider that a lifetime of study and worship and focus on God might give some ideas on how to live in this modern world. Perhaps it is good to preach from the standpoint that this isn't exactly presented in the Bible as dogmatic carbon copy Christian conduct - but it can help greatly in a focus on loving God.

I don't know. Just wanted to share this as I was reading the thread and considering my current situation. I think the IFB Churches need to improve some stuff, don't get me wrong,  but so do the modern Churches with their "politically correct" Christianity where you never want to offend a brother or sister. I see new converts still swearing and nobody says anything because they are waiting for "God" to reveal to them their sin.

Seems silly in many ways.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

Yes!
And this is my generation of IB's fight!
Do we double down on Independence, in a world where social media connects us like never before?
How do we fulfill our duty, to the rest of the Body, without establishing a hierarchy?

Will we continue the pragmatism of "Pastoral Authority", that lures in deviants of every tyrannical sort?
Or will we endeavor to seek The Spirit's leading, and protect the lambs in our flock?

I feel we are poised on a cliff edge, and may no longer exist in a decade or 2.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

The trend is certainly going that way. If the purpose of this series of blog posts is to divide the "true fundamentalist" vs the "neo Fundamentalist" the net result will most likely be zero fundamentalists in the future. It may go that way anyway. Instead of concentrating on core beliefs, this seems to draw the  dividing line as those who worship using  CCM vs traditional music . I;m sure future posts will take on the extremely relevant issues of pants on women, long hair on men, tattoos and other "old path" etched in stone beliefs that are violated by the neo-fundys.

Really, it sound like dividing up and choosing which room on the Titanic you want to be in.

I believe it is to define what he/they believe to be true IFBs. And the dividing line is indeed music, worship/service style, personal standards.
Which is why I said and believe that he/they have NO substantive/biblical arguments. Only their sincerely and strongly held beliefs.

I have been worshiping and participating at a local somewhat independent Southern Baptist Church the past two years since the disaster at our precious IFB Church. I needed a change. I appreciate their focus on all things "Bible" and lack of preaching and pushing goofy standards on the congregation. The verse by verse Bible teaching that has replaced the topical preaching at times becomes old and I wish they could mix it up - but they stay focus on context and don't go off the path often. And, at times, I miss the focus on hymns and Biblical translation standards - but I see younger people with passions for Christ. And, yes, I am learning that when a brother brags about drinking wine or listening to AC/DC to shut my mouth since I can't "prove from the Bible" it is sin.

BUT

Deep down though, at times, inside I feel like there is something missing. I feel like the building of Biblical standards can reflect on a genuine personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The lack of sharing them seems to cause Church to operate in a verbatim vacuum. I appreciate the older brother who shares that he feels CCM distracts from true Christianity when such convictions comes from the heart. I know my pastor doesn't like secular rock music, but he won't at least share his heart on why because it isn't totally presentable from the Bible. Instead he gives the Church the freedom to choose from our own hearts and relationships.

I don't have answers. But, when I read "they have NO substantive/biblical arguments" I pause and consider the simple basic commandment of Jesus Christ, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." and consider that a lifetime of study and worship and focus on God might give some ideas on how to live in this modern world. Perhaps it is good to preach from the standpoint that this isn't exactly presented in the Bible as dogmatic carbon copy Christian conduct - but it can help greatly in a focus on loving God.

I don't know. Just wanted to share this as I was reading the thread and considering my current situation. I think the IFB Churches need to improve some stuff, don't get me wrong,  but so do the modern Churches with their "politically correct" Christianity where you never want to offend a brother or sister. I see new converts still swearing and nobody says anything because they are waiting for "God" to reveal to them their sin.

Seems silly in many ways.

I'm not sure how your current church is discipling believers, but if we have a new convert who swears, we would have NO problem correcting/instructing him.
I do not believe it is a sin to drink, but I do not and have never had a drink. Which I publicly affirm regularly. I would say that the majority of our congregation would be in my 'camp' on this issue. As to listening AC/DC...they must be old!  I regularly listen to secular music when I exercise or driving.

I have no problem with a personal standard, we each will give an account of ourselves to God.
But I don't care to follow your standard...or Tom's. And don't expect you to follow mine.

 

[Tim]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

Yes!
And this is my generation of IB's fight!
Do we double down on Independence, in a world where social media connects us like never before?
How do we fulfill our duty, to the rest of the Body, without establishing a hierarchy?

Will we continue the pragmatism of "Pastoral Authority", that lures in deviants of every tyrannical sort?
Or will we endeavor to seek The Spirit's leading, and protect the lambs in our flock?

I feel we are poised on a cliff edge, and may no longer exist in a decade or 2.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

The trend is certainly going that way. If the purpose of this series of blog posts is to divide the "true fundamentalist" vs the "neo Fundamentalist" the net result will most likely be zero fundamentalists in the future. It may go that way anyway. Instead of concentrating on core beliefs, this seems to draw the  dividing line as those who worship using  CCM vs traditional music . I;m sure future posts will take on the extremely relevant issues of pants on women, long hair on men, tattoos and other "old path" etched in stone beliefs that are violated by the neo-fundys.

Really, it sound like dividing up and choosing which room on the Titanic you want to be in.

I believe it is to define what he/they believe to be true IFBs. And the dividing line is indeed music, worship/service style, personal standards.
Which is why I said and believe that he/they have NO substantive/biblical arguments. Only their sincerely and strongly held beliefs.

I have been worshiping and participating at a local somewhat independent Southern Baptist Church the past two years since the disaster at our precious IFB Church. I needed a change. I appreciate their focus on all things "Bible" and lack of preaching and pushing goofy standards on the congregation. The verse by verse Bible teaching that has replaced the topical preaching at times becomes old and I wish they could mix it up - but they stay focus on context and don't go off the path often. And, at times, I miss the focus on hymns and Biblical translation standards - but I see younger people with passions for Christ. And, yes, I am learning that when a brother brags about drinking wine or listening to AC/DC to shut my mouth since I can't "prove from the Bible" it is sin.

BUT

Deep down though, at times, inside I feel like there is something missing. I feel like the building of Biblical standards can reflect on a genuine personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The lack of sharing them seems to cause Church to operate in a verbatim vacuum. I appreciate the older brother who shares that he feels CCM distracts from true Christianity when such convictions comes from the heart. I know my pastor doesn't like secular rock music, but he won't at least share his heart on why because it isn't totally presentable from the Bible. Instead he gives the Church the freedom to choose from our own hearts and relationships.

I don't have answers. But, when I read "they have NO substantive/biblical arguments" I pause and consider the simple basic commandment of Jesus Christ, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." and consider that a lifetime of study and worship and focus on God might give some ideas on how to live in this modern world. Perhaps it is good to preach from the standpoint that this isn't exactly presented in the Bible as dogmatic carbon copy Christian conduct - but it can help greatly in a focus on loving God.

I don't know. Just wanted to share this as I was reading the thread and considering my current situation. I think the IFB Churches need to improve some stuff, don't get me wrong,  but so do the modern Churches with their "politically correct" Christianity where you never want to offend a brother or sister. I see new converts still swearing and nobody says anything because they are waiting for "God" to reveal to them their sin.

Seems silly in many ways.

I'm not sure how your current church is discipling believers, but if we have a new convert who swears, we would have NO problem correcting/instructing him.
I do not believe it is a sin to drink, but I do not and have never had a drink. Which I publicly affirm regularly. I would say that the majority of our congregation would be in my 'camp' on this issue. As to listening AC/DC...they must be old!  I regularly listen to secular music when I exercise or driving.

I have no problem with a personal standard, we each will give an account of ourselves to God.
But I don't care to follow your standard...or Tom's. And don't expect you to follow mine.

I assume that would be swearing in the Church building - correct? What if you see a brother swearing in public? Or on Facebook?

Odd as it sounds - we have a youth group participant who likes classic rock. She confused my son who assumed AC/DC was a clean band. He was clueless since we don't listen to that. Her parents allow and it is not considered good conduct to share our convictions regarding such music since Jesus never said, "Don't listen AC/DC" .... but my conviction is that the lyrics are not fit for a Child of God to utter or listen to ....

I don't expect you to obey my convictions. But, I have zero issue with a pastor teaching the value of convictions that might be shared by a majority of a congregation. I mean, after all, he has no issue mentioning his favorite movie that many share as a favorite. And even if the conviction isn't shared widely - whats wrong  with sharing why and how that conviction came about? Just so it isn't presented as "thus saith the Lord! You will go to hell if you don't obey"

 

[prophet]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

Yes!
And this is my generation of IB's fight!
Do we double down on Independence, in a world where social media connects us like never before?
How do we fulfill our duty, to the rest of the Body, without establishing a hierarchy?

Will we continue the pragmatism of "Pastoral Authority", that lures in deviants of every tyrannical sort?
Or will we endeavor to seek The Spirit's leading, and protect the lambs in our flock?

I feel we are poised on a cliff edge, and may no longer exist in a decade or 2.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

The trend is certainly going that way. If the purpose of this series of blog posts is to divide the "true fundamentalist" vs the "neo Fundamentalist" the net result will most likely be zero fundamentalists in the future. It may go that way anyway. Instead of concentrating on core beliefs, this seems to draw the  dividing line as those who worship using  CCM vs traditional music . I;m sure future posts will take on the extremely relevant issues of pants on women, long hair on men, tattoos and other "old path" etched in stone beliefs that are violated by the neo-fundys.

Really, it sound like dividing up and choosing which room on the Titanic you want to be in.

I believe it is to define what he/they believe to be true IFBs. And the dividing line is indeed music, worship/service style, personal standards.
Which is why I said and believe that he/they have NO substantive/biblical arguments. Only their sincerely and strongly held beliefs.

I have been worshiping and participating at a local somewhat independent Southern Baptist Church the past two years since the disaster at our precious IFB Church. I needed a change. I appreciate their focus on all things "Bible" and lack of preaching and pushing goofy standards on the congregation. The verse by verse Bible teaching that has replaced the topical preaching at times becomes old and I wish they could mix it up - but they stay focus on context and don't go off the path often. And, at times, I miss the focus on hymns and Biblical translation standards - but I see younger people with passions for Christ. And, yes, I am learning that when a brother brags about drinking wine or listening to AC/DC to shut my mouth since I can't "prove from the Bible" it is sin.

BUT

Deep down though, at times, inside I feel like there is something missing. I feel like the building of Biblical standards can reflect on a genuine personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The lack of sharing them seems to cause Church to operate in a verbatim vacuum. I appreciate the older brother who shares that he feels CCM distracts from true Christianity when such convictions comes from the heart. I know my pastor doesn't like secular rock music, but he won't at least share his heart on why because it isn't totally presentable from the Bible. Instead he gives the Church the freedom to choose from our own hearts and relationships.

I don't have answers. But, when I read "they have NO substantive/biblical arguments" I pause and consider the simple basic commandment of Jesus Christ, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." and consider that a lifetime of study and worship and focus on God might give some ideas on how to live in this modern world. Perhaps it is good to preach from the standpoint that this isn't exactly presented in the Bible as dogmatic carbon copy Christian conduct - but it can help greatly in a focus on loving God.

I don't know. Just wanted to share this as I was reading the thread and considering my current situation. I think the IFB Churches need to improve some stuff, don't get me wrong,  but so do the modern Churches with their "politically correct" Christianity where you never want to offend a brother or sister. I see new converts still swearing and nobody says anything because they are waiting for "God" to reveal to them their sin.

Seems silly in many ways.

I'm not sure how your current church is discipling believers, but if we have a new convert who swears, we would have NO problem correcting/instructing him.
I do not believe it is a sin to drink, but I do not and have never had a drink. Which I publicly affirm regularly. I would say that the majority of our congregation would be in my 'camp' on this issue. As to listening AC/DC...they must be old!  I regularly listen to secular music when I exercise or driving.

I have no problem with a personal standard, we each will give an account of ourselves to God.
But I don't care to follow your standard...or Tom's. And don't expect you to follow mine.

I assume that would be swearing in the Church building - correct? What if you see a brother swearing in public? Or on Facebook?

Odd as it sounds - we have a youth group participant who likes classic rock. She confused my son who assumed AC/DC was a clean band. He was clueless since we don't listen to that. Her parents allow and it is not considered good conduct to share our convictions regarding such music since Jesus never said, "Don't listen AC/DC" .... but my conviction is that the lyrics are not fit for a Child of God to utter or listen to ....

I don't expect you to obey my convictions. But, I have zero issue with a pastor teaching the value of convictions that might be shared by a majority of a congregation. I mean, after all, he has no issue mentioning his favorite movie that many share as a favorite. And even if the conviction isn't shared widely - whats wrong  with sharing why and how that conviction came about? Just so it isn't presented as "thus saith the Lord! You will go to hell if you don't obey"

Read the lyrics to an AC/DC album.
Puke.
Then craft an exhaustive topical sermon on Fornication.
Mention the disgusting lyrics in the sermon.
No Christian should be comfortable listening to them.
Of course, some of us already kniw many of their songs...but for a teen today, this is a teachable moment.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[Tim]

Perhaps conviction isn't the best word to use since it carries with it a degree of passion for something wrong and non-relatable to the Bible in any stretch.

Every time I say conviction swap it out with perhaps application. How one might apply the Bible to life.

When you apply the Bible rules and teaching to today's world we surely will come away with some wise advise. I like it when that is shared.

I am not talking about the preacher saying, "Any good Christian worth his salt should never enter the movie house! Never watch TV! Anyone who does this is going to hell!"

I am speaking more like the preacher who shares a passion, like John Piper has done, about the waste and temptation to turn entertainment into an idol. A warning from a wise old man sort of teaching. Not a "do not watch TV" but a "careful what you watch" sort of thing. And, I see no problem mentioning some known problems in modern entertainment. If a preacher warned me to avoid certain movies because he knew they had issue for our heart and mind .... I would have zero issue. I might still watch depending on his concern - but I would value it.

Today we find so many Churches that focus on just the core doctrinal teachings with perhaps some light application. I think many could go deeper and not be legalistic.

 

[Tim]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

Yes!
And this is my generation of IB's fight!
Do we double down on Independence, in a world where social media connects us like never before?
How do we fulfill our duty, to the rest of the Body, without establishing a hierarchy?

Will we continue the pragmatism of "Pastoral Authority", that lures in deviants of every tyrannical sort?
Or will we endeavor to seek The Spirit's leading, and protect the lambs in our flock?

I feel we are poised on a cliff edge, and may no longer exist in a decade or 2.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

The trend is certainly going that way. If the purpose of this series of blog posts is to divide the "true fundamentalist" vs the "neo Fundamentalist" the net result will most likely be zero fundamentalists in the future. It may go that way anyway. Instead of concentrating on core beliefs, this seems to draw the  dividing line as those who worship using  CCM vs traditional music . I;m sure future posts will take on the extremely relevant issues of pants on women, long hair on men, tattoos and other "old path" etched in stone beliefs that are violated by the neo-fundys.

Really, it sound like dividing up and choosing which room on the Titanic you want to be in.

I believe it is to define what he/they believe to be true IFBs. And the dividing line is indeed music, worship/service style, personal standards.
Which is why I said and believe that he/they have NO substantive/biblical arguments. Only their sincerely and strongly held beliefs.

I have been worshiping and participating at a local somewhat independent Southern Baptist Church the past two years since the disaster at our precious IFB Church. I needed a change. I appreciate their focus on all things "Bible" and lack of preaching and pushing goofy standards on the congregation. The verse by verse Bible teaching that has replaced the topical preaching at times becomes old and I wish they could mix it up - but they stay focus on context and don't go off the path often. And, at times, I miss the focus on hymns and Biblical translation standards - but I see younger people with passions for Christ. And, yes, I am learning that when a brother brags about drinking wine or listening to AC/DC to shut my mouth since I can't "prove from the Bible" it is sin.

BUT

Deep down though, at times, inside I feel like there is something missing. I feel like the building of Biblical standards can reflect on a genuine personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The lack of sharing them seems to cause Church to operate in a verbatim vacuum. I appreciate the older brother who shares that he feels CCM distracts from true Christianity when such convictions comes from the heart. I know my pastor doesn't like secular rock music, but he won't at least share his heart on why because it isn't totally presentable from the Bible. Instead he gives the Church the freedom to choose from our own hearts and relationships.

I don't have answers. But, when I read "they have NO substantive/biblical arguments" I pause and consider the simple basic commandment of Jesus Christ, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." and consider that a lifetime of study and worship and focus on God might give some ideas on how to live in this modern world. Perhaps it is good to preach from the standpoint that this isn't exactly presented in the Bible as dogmatic carbon copy Christian conduct - but it can help greatly in a focus on loving God.

I don't know. Just wanted to share this as I was reading the thread and considering my current situation. I think the IFB Churches need to improve some stuff, don't get me wrong,  but so do the modern Churches with their "politically correct" Christianity where you never want to offend a brother or sister. I see new converts still swearing and nobody says anything because they are waiting for "God" to reveal to them their sin.

Seems silly in many ways.

I'm not sure how your current church is discipling believers, but if we have a new convert who swears, we would have NO problem correcting/instructing him.
I do not believe it is a sin to drink, but I do not and have never had a drink. Which I publicly affirm regularly. I would say that the majority of our congregation would be in my 'camp' on this issue. As to listening AC/DC...they must be old!  I regularly listen to secular music when I exercise or driving.

I have no problem with a personal standard, we each will give an account of ourselves to God.
But I don't care to follow your standard...or Tom's. And don't expect you to follow mine.

I assume that would be swearing in the Church building - correct? What if you see a brother swearing in public? Or on Facebook?

Odd as it sounds - we have a youth group participant who likes classic rock. She confused my son who assumed AC/DC was a clean band. He was clueless since we don't listen to that. Her parents allow and it is not considered good conduct to share our convictions regarding such music since Jesus never said, "Don't listen AC/DC" .... but my conviction is that the lyrics are not fit for a Child of God to utter or listen to ....

I don't expect you to obey my convictions. But, I have zero issue with a pastor teaching the value of convictions that might be shared by a majority of a congregation. I mean, after all, he has no issue mentioning his favorite movie that many share as a favorite. And even if the conviction isn't shared widely - whats wrong  with sharing why and how that conviction came about? Just so it isn't presented as "thus saith the Lord! You will go to hell if you don't obey"

Read the lyrics to an AC/DC album.
Puke.
Then craft an exhaustive topical sermon on Fornication.
Mention the disgusting lyrics in the sermon.
No Christian should be comfortable listening to them.
Of course, some of us already kniw many of their songs...but for a teen today, this is a teachable moment.

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I agree. Sadly many don't.

 

[prophet]

Wow ...for an "independent" movement, it doesn't seem like its okay to really be independent!

Yes!
And this is my generation of IB's fight!
Do we double down on Independence, in a world where social media connects us like never before?
How do we fulfill our duty, to the rest of the Body, without establishing a hierarchy?

Will we continue the pragmatism of "Pastoral Authority", that lures in deviants of every tyrannical sort?
Or will we endeavor to seek The Spirit's leading, and protect the lambs in our flock?

I feel we are poised on a cliff edge, and may no longer exist in a decade or 2.

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The trend is certainly going that way. If the purpose of this series of blog posts is to divide the "true fundamentalist" vs the "neo Fundamentalist" the net result will most likely be zero fundamentalists in the future. It may go that way anyway. Instead of concentrating on core beliefs, this seems to draw the  dividing line as those who worship using  CCM vs traditional music . I;m sure future posts will take on the extremely relevant issues of pants on women, long hair on men, tattoos and other "old path" etched in stone beliefs that are violated by the neo-fundys.

Really, it sound like dividing up and choosing which room on the Titanic you want to be in.

I believe it is to define what he/they believe to be true IFBs. And the dividing line is indeed music, worship/service style, personal standards.
Which is why I said and believe that he/they have NO substantive/biblical arguments. Only their sincerely and strongly held beliefs.

I have been worshiping and participating at a local somewhat independent Southern Baptist Church the past two years since the disaster at our precious IFB Church. I needed a change. I appreciate their focus on all things "Bible" and lack of preaching and pushing goofy standards on the congregation. The verse by verse Bible teaching that has replaced the topical preaching at times becomes old and I wish they could mix it up - but they stay focus on context and don't go off the path often. And, at times, I miss the focus on hymns and Biblical translation standards - but I see younger people with passions for Christ. And, yes, I am learning that when a brother brags about drinking wine or listening to AC/DC to shut my mouth since I can't "prove from the Bible" it is sin.

BUT

Deep down though, at times, inside I feel like there is something missing. I feel like the building of Biblical standards can reflect on a genuine personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The lack of sharing them seems to cause Church to operate in a verbatim vacuum. I appreciate the older brother who shares that he feels CCM distracts from true Christianity when such convictions comes from the heart. I know my pastor doesn't like secular rock music, but he won't at least share his heart on why because it isn't totally presentable from the Bible. Instead he gives the Church the freedom to choose from our own hearts and relationships.

I don't have answers. But, when I read "they have NO substantive/biblical arguments" I pause and consider the simple basic commandment of Jesus Christ, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." and consider that a lifetime of study and worship and focus on God might give some ideas on how to live in this modern world. Perhaps it is good to preach from the standpoint that this isn't exactly presented in the Bible as dogmatic carbon copy Christian conduct - but it can help greatly in a focus on loving God.

I don't know. Just wanted to share this as I was reading the thread and considering my current situation. I think the IFB Churches need to improve some stuff, don't get me wrong,  but so do the modern Churches with their "politically correct" Christianity where you never want to offend a brother or sister. I see new converts still swearing and nobody says anything because they are waiting for "God" to reveal to them their sin.

Seems silly in many ways.

I'm not sure how your current church is discipling believers, but if we have a new convert who swears, we would have NO problem correcting/instructing him.
I do not believe it is a sin to drink, but I do not and have never had a drink. Which I publicly affirm regularly. I would say that the majority of our congregation would be in my 'camp' on this issue. As to listening AC/DC...they must be old!  I regularly listen to secular music when I exercise or driving.

I have no problem with a personal standard, we each will give an account of ourselves to God.
But I don't care to follow your standard...or Tom's. And don't expect you to follow mine.

I assume that would be swearing in the Church building - correct? What if you see a brother swearing in public? Or on Facebook?

Odd as it sounds - we have a youth group participant who likes classic rock. She confused my son who assumed AC/DC was a clean band. He was clueless since we don't listen to that. Her parents allow and it is not considered good conduct to share our convictions regarding such music since Jesus never said, "Don't listen AC/DC" .... but my conviction is that the lyrics are not fit for a Child of God to utter or listen to ....

I don't expect you to obey my convictions. But, I have zero issue with a pastor teaching the value of convictions that might be shared by a majority of a congregation. I mean, after all, he has no issue mentioning his favorite movie that many share as a favorite. And even if the conviction isn't shared widely - whats wrong  with sharing why and how that conviction came about? Just so it isn't presented as "thus saith the Lord! You will go to hell if you don't obey"

Read the lyrics to an AC/DC album.
Puke.
Then craft an exhaustive topical sermon on Fornication.
Mention the disgusting lyrics in the sermon.
No Christian should be comfortable listening to them.
Of course, some of us already kniw many of their songs...but for a teen today, this is a teachable moment.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

I agree. Sadly many don't.

We can't attack music, by genre.
It will never work.
It requires song by song, and group by group, singer by singer... judgement.

The key is to focus on the sin being openly praised here, in this case Bi-Sexuality is literally their name...an Aussie slang term for "going both ways".
Their lyrics are overtly sexual, sonething the Scriptures say to flee, avoid, don't eat or worship with, etc.

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[Tarheel Baptist]

I don't need anyone or any list of standards to tell me whether something...song lyrics etc...is/are offensive or not.
I would assume Tim and prophet don't either.

Tom has faithfully been a voice crying in the neo/pseudo fundamentalist wilderness calling the movement back to 1960's philosophy and methodology.
Here is the latest blog installment...I saw it on my FB feed today.
https://concerningjesus.blogspot.com/2019/01/what-it-offers-that-we-do-not-need.html

By reading the comment section, it doesn't appear that he has started a mass movement back to the 'doctrine of calling method's doctrine'.

 

[Norefund]

From the blog post: ?I feel for my generation. There is a pressure to be modern, a push to be more sensitive to the culture, and, yes, an insistence on lower standards.?

The article starts from the premise that anything other than traditional 1960?s church services, dress, etc. is lowered standards.

Because of that, I?m out.