Trump is now a political liability.

Besides, it's been shown. If you're too scared to open your eyes, I can't help you.
 
This argument that the election was stolen needs to be retired. There’s always been some small level of cheating and there always will be in a country the size of the USA, but if it hasn’t been proven two years later, then let’s move on. Whining that a past election was “stolen” will not ensure winning future elections.
 
Huk said:
This argument that the election was stolen needs to be retired. There’s always been some small level of cheating and there always will be in a country the size of the USA, but if it hasn’t been proven two years later, then let’s move on. Whining that a past election was “stolen” will not ensure winning future elections.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. Just because you're tired of it doesn't mean it needs to go away.

The fact of the matter is that most conservatives no longer have confidence in the system, because the gross, unprecedented irregularities of 2020 haven't been dealt with.

And that's the real reason for the poor turn out. Florida is the exception that proves the rule.

You're in denial 'bout who's across the aisle, and the events of J6 and the American Gulag in D.C.
 
Ekklesian said:
The fact of the matter is that most conservatives no longer have confidence in the system, because the gross, unprecedented irregularities of 2020 haven't been dealt with.
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OK buddy, get back to me when you figure out how to resolve the 2020 presidential election. 🙄
 
Bob Jones V said:
I know that our hope is not to be in politics. We are citizens of a different country, a heavenly one. And I take that very seriously. However, being that we live in a country where we are free to elect our own government officials, if deeply grieves me when Christians sit at home and do not vote.
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Thank God for the privilege of voting early and avoiding all the mess of election day! My wife and I got to vote 19 days ago and there were only five people in front of us. As my wife was coming home on Tuesday evening, she said the polling stations were packed. I hate to wait for hours in line to do anything, especially to vote for one bad choice over another.
 
The 2022 election was, in part, a referendum on the question of the baseless charge that the 2020 election was stolen, and on whether Trump is God. These proved to be losing issues this time around. If we campaign again on these issues in 2024, we will lose again. In my opinion, it is time to move on.

Part of the case for Trump has been, "Yes, he has lots of problems, but he is the only Republican who can win." The 2022 election shows that he can't win, he is an emperor without clothes, his lock on the Republican party is a serious and crippling liability on the cause of conservatism. A lot of conservatives and Republicans have realized that over the past two days. It's time for us to stop denying reality, and to open ourselves to new leadership who will fight the real battles against abortion, inflation, gay/transgender brainwashing in the public schools, high crime, illegal immigration, critical race theory, Green New Deal, ban on fossil fuels, gun control. These are issues we can win on, but if we go with the Trump worship and election denial again, we will lose.
 
I think Candace Owens has some insight into this.

www.dailywire.com

Ep. 38 - My Opinion on Trump Is Changing

Is the MAGA movement dead? Today, I'm sharing my thoughts on whether or not Trump is the right man for the job in 2024 and the behind the scenes moment that began to change my mind about his character and his ability to lead.
www.dailywire.com www.dailywire.com

...there are people on his team that bring him the news headlines in the morning, which is totally normal. ... And he goes through that. And he accepts that as a narrative. So that's why you will see so many tweets of him hitting back at the New York Times The Washington Post. He's actually getting these headlines when he can respond to these headlines live. Nothing wrong with that. ​
​
Except there was something wrong with it, apparently. Trump actually got upset with me, because—and here's the great irony— the richest irony—The Daily Beast ran a headline regarding that live Instagram that you just heard from me, and the headline was, "Candace Owens says Trump is provax, because he's too old to understand the Internet." ​
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I never once called Trump too old. ​
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I did never [unclear] to that Trump could not understand the Internet.​
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And yet somehow he got that information and believe it to be true. ​
​
...he then during a golf session with some mutual friends of ours had a person next to him who was egging this on, saying to Trump—and I know this because again, this is a mutual friend—"Aren't you mad at Candace? Aren't you mad at Candace? Aren't you mad at Candace?"​
​
And eventually he was like, "Yeah, I'm so mad at Candace. I'm so mad at Candace."​
​
And this got back to me that he was upset with me, that he was angry at me, and the next time that I saw him, he was quite rude to me. ​
​
...​
​
I'm telling you this personal story because I think it is something that made me, for the first time, question him as a person. ...you have an individual that spent years defending you..., and that individual gave you a completely kind and fair interview. You said something yourself that your base didn't like, and you somehow transform that into something that I did wrong.​
​
That's unacceptable.​
​
And that is not being a leader. That is not owning things that you did wrong, and it's not owning that you misunderstood something about your base. ...he should have tried to understand why the base was so upset with him, which would have led to the fact that his base is not pro COVID vaccines. It's that simple. ​
​
I understood that. I could have told him that. But that moment, I realized that he's not listening. Who is this guy next to him, trying to egg him on to be angry at me for trying to defend him, to say he's not a shill. To say, no, actually, I think that he genuinely does support the vaccines. He did genuinely support the vaccines. ​
​
So all of this going on, made me again, question him if he was becoming too angry, which is to say that when Trump won the election in 2016, he was having fun, right? He was naming people, giving them funding and enjoying the base having a good time. I would even say in 2020 You could feel the energy. It was electric.​
​
I think after the 2020 election and because of the shock of all the things that happened, and the ... sinking realization that we might be actually losing our country—I think that it pushed him into an angry space where he doesn't trust anybody, where he doesn't listen to anybody, where he's almost likely to believe that everybody's trying to turn their back on him and stab him in the back. ​
​
...I think that's a lot of ego that Trump is having right now. But maybe I'm being egotistical. Maybe me but speaking out about this is me being offended and butthurt that he was so rude to me. ... But after time, I've realized that, no, these discussions that ... these conservative influencers are having behind Trump's back should be also had with the public as well. ​
​
We have a right to know that. You have a right to take that information and judge it as you will, and to question whether or not there has been a change in Trump. ​
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How could there not be? ​
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How could you suffer a defeat and know in your heart that a lot of things that happened regarding that defeat were wrong.​
​
Even if you don't believe that what happened in Maricopa County during the election was fishy ... you at least believe that the Hunter Biden laptop suppression led to different results in the election. ​
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So he has every right to be angry. But if you stay at a place of anger... you are ignoring everything that is going on around you, you're no longer looking and assessing things in the way that you should be assessing them, because you're holding on to this almost vengeful spirit...​
​
That is the question that I have with Trump. Is he going to get over the trauma of the election in 2020, and begin to paint a vision for 2024?​
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What is his vision for 2024? ​
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Is it, "I'm back"? because that's not a vision to me.​
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And I think that's what's happening behind closed doors, people believing that they're not sure who he's listening to, maybe there's a paranoia potentially that setting setting in that he believes that his friends [are turning against him].​
​
...​
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I think that the MAGA movement is reflecting Trump. I think there is a trepidation that I'm sensing in Trump, and I think that that trepidation is evidenced by him taking a random swing at DeSantis last week. ​
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...I think the base is feeling that trepidation. They're not sure who to listen to on endorsements​
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I think that I am not at all under any impression that Trump can't win in 2024. Now, what I am saying is that Trump needs to take a good look in the mirror, and he needs to take a good look in the room and he needs to read the room accurately. He's take a look at those that are around him that are inspiring this paranoia, and making him believe that everyone's out to get him—including his friends, and he needs to exercise a tiny bit more humility. ​
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...there's still a period where he could transform but I think the results of last night's election which are still coming in show that we aren't sure. He's not sure, and therefore we aren't sure.​
 
illinoisguy said:
leadership who will fight the real battles against abortion, inflation, gay/transgender brainwashing in the public schools, high crime, illegal immigration, critical race theory, Green New Deal, ban on fossil fuels, gun control. These are issues we can win on, but if we go with the Trump worship and election denial again, we will lose.
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Trump brought us into energy independence, his SCOTUS appointments overturned Roe v Wade, wages were up, prices were down. We was doing something about the invasion of illegals.

I think his record is that he was the ONLY Republican that did fight the real battles, and more.
 
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illinoisguy said:
The 2022 election was, in part, a referendum on the question of the baseless charge that the 2020 election was stolen, and on whether Trump is God.
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The election wasn't a referendum on anything. There was poor conservative turnout for the reason I cited, low confidence in a corrupted process, and for the uncertainty Candace Owens astutely identified.

Trump is God? Puh-leeze. That's just an invective that liberals, open and closeted, throw out there when their weak arguments and false accusations are soundly debunked.
 
Ekklesian said:
Trump brought us into energy independence, his SCOTUS appointments overturned Roe v Wade, wages were up, prices were down. We was doing something about the invasion of illegals.

I think his record is that he was the ONLY Republican that did fight the real battles, and more.
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Trump did some great stuff while in office, especially with his Supreme Court picks. That being said, he carries a lot of baggage and will be 78 years old when he begins his term in office. Time to move on to someone with a different name, less baggage and more youth.
 
Ekklesian said:
Those that voted for them, are Trumpers.

[Edit: Trump endorsed Dewine and Desantis. Kemp noticeably refrained from criticism of Trump during his campaign.]
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Trump tried to climb on their bandwagons but called him Desanctimonious just days before the election. He and Kemp were at odds over the 2020 election. They won big because they publicly distanced themselves from him.

He’s a pompous jerk and the big loser in Tuesday’s election.
 
Yes, this was a referendum on election denial, and that turned out to be a losing issue. They are calling it the "Mypillow-ization of the GOP." I am sure the Demon-crats are hoping we will run on that same tired old hoax issue again in 2024, so we can lose bigger next time.

Now for a history lesson. William Howard Taft, the incumbent Presidential candidate in 1912, was a perfectly good and decent Progressive Republican, but former President Theodore Roosevelt convinced himself that Taft wasn't progressive enough, he got his undies in a bunch about it, he ran against Taft on the Bull Moose ticket in a personal grudge match. The two Republicans got far more popular votes than Democrat Woodrow Wilson, but by splitting the Republican vote, they delivered the election to Wilson. Are we going to let old Trumpo divide us and repeat history in 2024?

PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATEPOLITICAL PARTYELECTORAL VOTESPOPULAR VOTES
Woodrow WilsonDemocratic4356,293,454
Theodore RooseveltProgressive (Bull Moose)884,119,207
William Howard TaftRepublican83,483,922
 
illinoisguy said:
Yes, this was a referendum on election denial, and that turned out to be a losing issue. They are calling it the "Mypillow-ization of the GOP." I am sure the Demon-crats are hoping we will run on that same tired old hoax issue again in 2024, so we can lose bigger next time.

Now for a history lesson. William Howard Taft, the incumbent Presidential candidate in 1912, was a perfectly good and decent Progressive Republican, but former President Theodore Roosevelt convinced himself that Taft wasn't progressive enough, he got his undies in a bunch about it, he ran against Taft on the Bull Moose ticket in a personal grudge match. The two Republicans got far more popular votes than Democrat Woodrow Wilson, but by splitting the Republican vote, they delivered the election to Wilson. Are we going to let old Trumpo divide us and repeat history in 2024?

PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATEPOLITICAL PARTYELECTORAL VOTESPOPULAR VOTES
Woodrow WilsonDemocratic4356,293,454
Theodore RooseveltProgressive (Bull Moose)884,119,207
William Howard TaftRepublican83,483,922
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Trump will run as an in independent if doesn’t win the nomination. He’s threatened this before, and he will do it out of spite. I guarantee it.
 
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