What are your views on understanding The Trinity?

Marty was better than us,
Sort of the way Vince is better than us at changing subjects, drawing out boring stories over several weeks, and avoiding accountability for his own admitted Christological heresy of denying Jesus Christ's human nature.

Vince is better than us at being a total bore, a false teacher, and a deceiver of the brethren.

And since Vince is better than us at hijacking threads and turning Internet forums into his own blog, he is locked out of this thread until he learns to behave.
 
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In theological and philosophical language, "nature" simply means the set of attributes and characteristics that make an individual thing what it is. So when we talk about "human nature," we mean such characteristics as: descended from Adam, made in the image of God, bipedal, sexually dimorphic, capable of speech, capable of reason and abstract thought, and so forth.

The actual philosophical/theological/scientific discussion about this is more complicated, but this serves to point out that we're not really talking about a difficult concept. Having a human nature is synonymous with being a human being.

As pertains to the person of Christ, we also have the concept of the hypostatic union: his divinity and humanity are united in a single, individual existence. The human and divine natures are distinct, but not divided: as the Definition of Chalcedon (AD 451) says, Christ is

recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence.​

In other words, we must not think of the hypostatic union as a divine spirit possessing a human body, or combining into some third kind of nature that is neither distinctly human nor divine. Full humanity and full divinity come together in the person of Jesus Christ. Every attempt to explain the hypostatic union has resulted in a heresy that either divides or confuses the two natures. Nonetheless, its fact remains true. It takes a leap of faith to accept it.

The true Christian position is termed dyophysitism: two natures. This is in contrast with monophysitism, the heretical belief that Jesus had only a single, divine nature. Related concepts are mono- vs. dyothelitism: the question of whether Christ possessed one will or two, one human and one divine. Monothelitism was rejected by the whole church in the seventh century. If Christ is both fully human and fully divine, then he must possess both a human and a divine will, which is not to say the two natures/wills are ever in conflict.

When Vince says, for example:

Now, we are taught that Jesus had two natures, one human and one Divine. I took Systematic Theology at HAC, where the textbook presented arguments (both for and against) the doctrines that Jesus had one, two, or three natures. Unfortunately, the textbook convinced me that all three positions are wrong.

he is saying that the theological affirmation of Jesus' human and divine natures is in error. Revealed Scripture speaks of Jesus as a man, and as God. It does not literally speak of him possessing the essential characteristics of any other kind of being. Thus "the doctrines that Jesus had... two... natures" is in fact true. Vince defies the orthodox definition of the hypostatic union.

Several heresies, almost all monophysite, arose in the early church, that denied or distorted the human nature of Christ:

  • There is Docetism. This is a full denial of Jesus' humanity that claims his human body and human existence were a mere appearance, having no reality. (One major implication of Docetism is that when Jesus appeared to the disciples after his resurrection, the wounds from the crucifixion that he showed Thomas to prove he had risen from the dead were an illusion. He tricked Thomas into confessing, "My lord and my God!")
  • There is Apollinarianism. This was a novel teaching of Apollinarius, a late-fourth-century bishop of Laodicea. He affirmed that Jesus had a true human body and soul; however, he did not possess a human spirit, but was instead animated by the Spirit of God.
  • There is Nestorianism. Nestorius was one of Apollinarius's opponents. He regarded birth as an essentially human activity, and therefore denied that Mary could in any sense be regarded as theotokos ("God-bearer")--a term that had come into being to affirm that Jesus Christ was divine even in the womb. Nestorius preferred terms like christotokos ("Christ-bearer") or anthropotokos ("man-bearer"). Hence he ended up denying the union of the two natures, believing Jesus was simply a perfect man linked to deity. It's unknown how much of Nestorianism reflects Nestorius's own beliefs, as opposed to the embellishments of his followers.
  • I have observed a modern revival of Nestorianism amongst some fundamental Baptists. Like Nestorius, they don't like the idea of Mary as theotokos because it's too "Catholic." And so they swing too far in the opposite direction, claiming that Mary gave birth to Jesus' humanity but none of his divinity. Some of these people even go farther, claiming Mary was a mere "incubator" for Jesus' body. This too is heretical: like Docetism, it is a denial of Jesus' humanity. Not in the sense that his body was an illusion. But if Jesus is not truly the descendant of Mary, then though he may have had the appearance and biology of a man, he had no true connection to the human race.
  • There is Eutychianism. Eutyches of Constantinople opposed Nestorius with an extreme opposite position: that the human and divine natures blended into something that was neither distinctly human nor divine. The divine nature consumed the human nature in such a way that Christ was of one substance (homoousion, a term that should be familiar from the Arian controversy) with the Father, but not homoousion with humanity.

By the time of the Council of Chalcedon in 451, the last ecumenical council considered authoritative by the consensus of all of Christendom, all these positions were soundly rejected by the church.
 
Sort of the way Vince is better than us at changing subjects, drawing out boring stories over several weeks, and avoiding accountability for his own admitted Christological heresy of denying Jesus Christ's human nature.
Reminiscent of the old FFF. Maybe this forum is slowly returning to its former glory.
 
Another serious error Vince makes:

Jim Vineyard was having a staff meeting, and a very Godly guy got all upset because the rest of us didn't care about how many natures Jesus had. He started lecturing us on how Jesus had two natures (God and man). I asked him if Jesus wanted to sin., because that was what He really wanted to do.
Horrified, the staffer exclaimed "No!," and I explained "If Jesus didn't want to sin, He didn't have a human nature." The poor guy sputtered longer than anyone else I've ever heard.

However, sinfulness is not an intrinsic part of human nature. Adam was the father of the whole human race, but he was created without sin. Did he only become human once he ate the forbidden fruit and began sinning?

This is crucial. If Christ had no human nature--which is synonymous with not being a human person--then the biblical message of salvation falls apart. Adam was the prototype human, who dragged his entire race into sin and condemnation. Christ is the second Adam, whose work is to reverse in the church, and ultimately the world, the damage that Adam wrought. Christ's atoning work as our High Priest is possible only because he is a human being. Only a true man can represent and intercede for the human race before God. Only a true man was an acceptable atoning sacrifice for humanity's sins. Only a genuine descendant of David has a just claim to be the Messiah and the King of the Jews. If Christ has no human nature, Christianity has no value. "We are of all people most to be pitied" (1 Cor. 15:19).
 
So, we have a Monophysite on the FFF board. Who knew?

In theory, the Chalcedonian Confession of 451 AD always has been, and still is, the official position of all Greek Orthodox churches under the Patriarch of Constantinople, also all Roman Catholics, also all Protestants (including Baptists who do not consider themselves Protestant). I think it's a bit late in the season to reopen this settlement of views on the Person of Christ that has stood, and served us well, for 15 centuries.

Admittedly, some of the Eastern churches (Armenian Orthodox, Jacobite, Coptic in Egypt and Ethiopia) did reject Chalcedon, and are known as Monophysites or Miaphysites. I concede to them the right to be wrong. Some modern heretical groups, such as the Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Morons and the Filipino cult Iglesia ni Cristo, also reject Chalcedon. I wouldn't want to be in their company.
 
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