What, Exactly did John Piper do to Greg Boyd?

[FSSL]

All I know is that he exposed Boyd's theology as Open Theism... was there an offense?

 

[Bob H]

What happened?

 

[FSSL]

Praise_Jesus said: "If you really want to make a Calvinsit mad....just mention Greg Boyd. Piper, a noted Calvinist, showed his true colors when dealing with Boyd. Calvin showed his when dealing with Sevetus."

 

[Bob H]

Praise_Jesus said: "If you really want to make a Calvinsit mad....just mention Greg Boyd. Piper, a noted Calvinist, showed his true colors when dealing with Boyd. Calvin showed his when dealing with Sevetus."

I haven't heard any news about Gregy Boyd being fried yet.....................Though his time is coming. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

Praise_Jesus said: "If you really want to make a Calvinsit mad....just mention Greg Boyd. Piper, a noted Calvinist, showed his true colors when dealing with Boyd. Calvin showed his when dealing with Sevetus."

I haven't heard any news about Gregy Boyd being fried yet.....................Though his time is coming. 

What a wondrous display of love for your fellow man.

Another trait common to Calvinist. I know you don't claim to be one. A Calvinist takes pleasure in the punishment of whom they consider to be the "wicked".

I just don't believe there is going to be much celebrating at judgment!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FSSL]

You made the accusation.... I am interested in knowing, exactly, how Piper treated Boyd.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Praise_Jesus said: "If you really want to make a Calvinsit mad....just mention Greg Boyd. Piper, a noted Calvinist, showed his true colors when dealing with Boyd. Calvin showed his when dealing with Sevetus."

You're going way back in our discussions. Not complaining.

I really can't believe you don't anything about it.

Piper sought to get Boyd fired at Bethel and the church he pastors thrown out of their "Baptist" conference. While there are several good articles about this.... this is the first one I found. A response from Boyd.

http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/ask-open-theist-greg-boyd-response

Boyd has really taken the high road in this. He often talks about forgiveness and tolerance when talking about the issue. For the record, I am not a follower of Boyd. Just because I mention someone.... doesn't mean I'm a follower. I think he is a great theologian. I have found very few that are in his "league". Piper certainly isn't. He has done more for Arminians than they can ever imagine. Many Arminians have begun to reference his article. He is extremely well educated and is one of the best theological minds of our day. I do find fault in his over emphasis and focus on "love" at the expense of judgment. There is a balance that must take place when you're dealing with such issues and he's weighted entirely too much on the side of "love".

 

[praise_yeshua]

You made the accusation.... I am interested in knowing, exactly, how Piper treated Boyd.

I was writing the response when you posted this. I couldn't help but point out the animosity that exists from "some" toward others. Generally speaking..... we all know which direction it flows.

I admit, you're definitely more level headed when dealing such issues than most Calvinists I've meet.

Question, if you had absolute power in judging heresy.... would you seek the death or banishment of those you deem heretics?

 

[FSSL]

Question, if you had absolute power in judging heresy.... would you seek the death or banishment of those you deem heretics?

No. Absolutely not.

I would, however, in the case of Boyd, I would want him expelled from the lead Theologian spot at my college and association.

Is that all you had?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Question, if you had absolute power in judging heresy.... would you seek the death or banishment of those you deem heretics?

No. Absolutely not.

I would, however, in the case of Boyd, I would want him expelled from the lead Theologian spot at my college and association.

Is that all you had?

Is that ALL? Well.... that says a lot about you.

No Boyd didn't deserve to get fired from Bethel or have the church he pastors expelled from their association.

So you agree with Piper?

I know you don't hold a secular position at a prominent University. I'd say it's not trivial to seek to have someone fired from their position over something as simple as your misunderstanding.

Where is your heart in this?

 

[FSSL]

So, I could assume that you would not seek to have a Hyper-Calvinist expelled as the head of the Theology department, if you were on the board of said school?

You are also willing to associate among hyper-Calvinists?

Doubtful.

What is clear, to me, is that you have exaggerated any so-called wrong doing on the part of Piper.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I have never sought to get someone fired from any secular or faith position.

Youre really list in this. Do you not know the difference between Bethel and Bethlehem?

Really!!!

Tell you what. Let me know who you report to in your ministry and I'll give them a call. Afterwords you can contribute to my retirement fund!!

I didn't exagerate anything. You're that ignoring your consequence.

 

[FSSL]

You compared this to the killing of a man. Exaggeration prima dona!

But you didn't answer the hypothetical question. What about the Hyper-Calvinist? If you were a notable teacher and a Baptist Convention voter, would you not seek to replace him?

We know you would.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So you're admitting Calvin had someone killed?

What a fresh breath of air

The comparison is valid. It's all about attitude. Piper was powerlwe to call for Boyd's death. 

Are going admit you confused Bethel and Bethlehem Seminary?

No. I wouldn't do what Piper did. Which is really at question here and no I gave up on the idea I could force my beliefs on others. I wouldn't have sought to fire Boyd or Piper...  Regardless....  Piper is an mess.

 

[FSSL]

So you're admitting Calvin had someone killed?

What a fresh breath of air

The comparison is valid. It's all about attitude. Piper was powerlwe to call for Boyd's death. 

Are going admit you confused Bethel and Bethlehem Seminary?

No. I wouldn't do what Piper did. Which is really at question here and no I gave up on the idea I could force my beliefs on others. I wouldn't have sought to fire Boyd or Piper...  Regardless....  Piper is an mess.

No. Calvin had no influence on the Geneva council.

No. I know about Bethel and know the diff. I thought Piper was on its board, but he was a former teacher.

Piper is part of the Baptist General Conference and as a voting member had not only the right to call out Boyd's departure from orthodoxy, but the obligation.

In making your point, you have absurdly exaggerated the issue and therefore your argument has lost credibility.

 

[cubanito]

Disclaimer: I am a commited CalvArminian. I have a complex view on TULIP and God's sovereignty arising from Titus 1:12 that have on various boards and in person earned me personal attacks and ridicule from Calvinists far more often than Arminians. Ridicule however slides off me. I already know that I am a horrible person deserving of Hell and that the best of my efforts make me more slimy and disgusting than a snail or worm. Other than the unforgivable sin there's no sin I am not willing to confess to in either thought and deed. Further, I am a member of Kendall Presbyterean Church (PCA) where my views are well known. I would not qualify as an elder, but other than that they welcome my input even though it is often contrary to the Westminster confession because, in the essentials, we are solid.

I am very, very glad John Piper outed Boyd and got him fired from Bethel. I would hope all True Christians would force those who compromise the Majesty of God out of Bible Believing institutions. While this can go too far, such as how Presbytereans briefly jailed some Baptists in this country, when you look at the history of persecution, this was rather minor. Nobody got killed, and evemtually an attitude of agreeing to disagree on NON-ESSENTIAL like mode of baptism pervaded.

Now, please note that Boyd was not exposed as an Arminian. That is in fact the majority position among Southern Baptist pastors (though the Augustinian types tend to wield influence beyond their numbers.

Boyd was preaching that God is not Omnsicient. Sorry, that is time to get somebody to leave the Bible believing Church and join some liberal denomination.  Servetus was not burned for being Arminian. Calvin did not actually have Servetus burned, but he did remain quiet during the affair. They were different times, but I would agree this was a fault on Calvin.

To my knowledge, other than a few short term arrests and fines, no Calvinist ever killed an Arminian and not paedobaptist a credobaptist .  Interestingly the "separation of Church and State" phrase which has been so abused, came from Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists as reassurance that the Presbytereans were not going to continue persecution. While it is not a beautiful record, and I do also find Calvinists today of a nastier attitude than Armians generally (with plenty of exceptions), ot is not as bad a record as say, Shiite vs Sunni or within the Roman "catholic" church, Jesuit vs Dominican where murder and torture was quite common.

Boyd, Bell and all the others are outside Christian Orthodoxy and anyone who keeps them from infiltrating Christian institutions to rot them from the inside is doing a wonderful thing. There are plenty of apostate denominations they can go to, Leave the remnant alone.

BTW I attempted a comple pun earlier that Servetus was not burned for ArYanism, as God-win's law  as Hitler had been brought in, which according to Godwin's law will always occur in these kind of dicussions.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

You made the accusation.... I am interested in knowing, exactly, how Piper treated Boyd.

I was writing the response when you posted this. I couldn't help but point out the animosity that exists from "some" toward others. Generally speaking..... we all know which direction it flows.

I admit, you're definitely more level headed when dealing such issues than most Calvinists I've meet.

Question, if you had absolute power in judging heresy.... would you seek the death or banishment of those you deem heretics?

Just say it.  Servetus.  Tomato's Law.

 

[cubanito]

Banishment from positions of teaching or ruling in Christian institutions only.

I would be happy to have a thoroughly heretical teacher as a "visiting professor" only if they would agree to have all students forewarned that such a teacher is contrary to the Biblical message as understood.

I would encourage that in non-essentials where the Bible is not crystal clear, such as baptism, that there would be much more interchange and willingness to discuss and teach. The semi-pelagian/Augustinian divide is one I studied for 2.5 years straight before coming to a tenous understanding. This is not a core doctrine of the Gospel, no matter how nasty some Augustinians got, or how arminians like Finney retaliated in even nastier ways.

But when a heretic on a clear core doctrine such as the Omniscience of God is trying to pass himself off as Biblical I would drive him out of any position of influence and do so publicly as Paul did to Peter (recrded in Galatians.

Someone like Tony Campolo is a wolf in sheep's clothing and the likes of Dr Steve Brown has done much harm by giving this wolf access to the sheep. I have walked out of Churches over this kind of compromising attitude.

I have athiests, muslims, agnostics and even santeria friends. I am married to a Roman "catholic" for 30 years and that has never been a problem (though she is inconsistent, as she believes in the 5 solas).  I will not be friends with someone claiming to be a Christian teacher who hedges on doctrines like Hell,  Omniscience or a short list of other essentials (as in Nicea).  These days the hottest battlefront is sexual sins like homosexuality. I am glad a wolf like Tony Campolo has been shown for the putrid filth that he is.

Let them find some other place to spread their leaven, not the few tiny remnants of Bible faithful denominations left.

 

[cubanito]

Now I ask a question:

Why would someone who embraces open theism remain in a SBC teaching position when there are so many other places that would welcome him?

 

[praise_yeshua]

No. Calvin had no influence on the Geneva council.

Calvin had no influence....... sure... words mean nothing. Words don't force the hand of another but they do influence. To deny their influence is silly.

No. I know about Bethel and know the diff. I thought Piper was on its board, but he was a former teacher.

These are your exact words... .lying rascal....

I would, however, in the case of Boyd, I would want him expelled from the lead Theologian spot at my college and association.

You thought Piper was on the Board at Bethel and he's never been on the board at Bethel. He is on the board at Bethlehem.

Piper is part of the Baptist General Conference and as a voting member had not only the right to call out Boyd's departure from orthodoxy, but the obligation.

You're ridiculous. He had no right and he failed.

Here are the exact words from the evangelical council that heads the "Theological Clarification and Assessment Council of the Baptist General Conference"

We affirm the unanimous vote of the Committee for Theological Clarification and Assessment occurring on May 13, 1998, that [open theist] Dr. [Greg] Boyd's views did not warrant his termination as a member of the Bethel College faculty and by inference that his views fall within the accepted bounds of the evangelical spectrum.

So much for Godly direction from Piper. Piper is an idiot. The moron even teaches that tithing is still for the NT believer.

Did you read the article that I referenced. I would love to deal with you on the points made by Boyd. YOU... Calvinist make God into a little child that knows nothing but what He alone purposed and brought about in humanity. You "NUTS".... call this "omnipotence". This is utterly stupid. The Open Theist believe that God knows ALL that is knowable. INCLUDING.... ALL the possibilities of a freewill operative that makes its own choices. You want to really talk of the VAST information knowable to God.... you Calvinist LOSE every time.

Boyd explained this to the the BGC and it ruled in his favor. You can't win the argument. You Calvinist are so childish.

In making your point, you have absurdly exaggerated the issue and therefore your argument has lost credibility.

I didn't exaggerate anything. You're trying to down play the issue. I referenced the issue and compared to your dark hearts. The one that exists in you and that NUT Calvin. You always take pleasure in the harm of those you disagree with.

I know you think I'm unregenerate. Hypothetically speaking.... will YOU rejoice in my future judgment? Will you rejoice in what you think my demise will be? I'd about bet the bank that Ransom will. Tomato might not. 

Listen.... I'm one that told you about the issue. You obviously didn't know anything about it. Which tells me that you don't even care enough to follow what's going on in the theological world. You even got a NUT in the thread that thinks this has to do with the SBC.... agreeing with you.

You such good company..... such good company!!!