What Paul Chappell likes about the New IFB?s.

[TheRealJonStewart]

IMHO: Paul Chappell is the only chance that the IFB has of bridging the gap between the "old guard" and the "new IFBs".

Chappell isn't perfect but he hasn't been accused of "alleged adultery" as Hyles (who probably did commit adultery). Nor does he cover up crimes like Trieber does. If anyone brings up the Jeremy Whitman case, we all know the full story and it was beyond Chappell's control after he was fired for drugs. Trieber still hasn't released an official statement or reply to that video.

Certainly Chappell is better at getting "normal" millennial IFBs than Andy-boy in Arizona getting the "crazy/radical" millennial IFBs that says Orlando Pulse Night Club victims deserved what they got.

 

[16KJV11]

I have been acquainted with Paul Chappell since the early 90's.  The pastor of the church I attended and worked at in CA was a co-worker with Chappell at Trieber's church early on and he was off and on friends with him.  In my mind, Chappell has always represented the 'refined and highly polished' wing of IFB'dom.  He has always been pragmatic in his approach to church growth and standards.  Nothing new to see here.

 

[Twisted]

If anyone brings up the Jeremy Whitman case, we all know the full story and it was beyond Chappell's control after he was fired for drugs. Trieber still hasn't released an official statement or reply to that video.

"we all know" - Well, I feel left out since I don't know.

What video?  Who's Whitman?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

IMHO: Paul Chappell is the only chance that the IFB has of bridging the gap between the "old guard" and the "new IFBs".

Chappell isn't perfect but he hasn't been accused of "alleged adultery" as Hyles (who probably did commit adultery). Nor does he cover up crimes like Trieber does. If anyone brings up the Jeremy Whitman case, we all know the full story and it was beyond Chappell's control after he was fired for drugs. Trieber still hasn't released an official statement or reply to that video.

Certainly Chappell is better at getting "normal" millennial IFBs than Andy-boy in Arizona getting the "crazy/radical" millennial IFBs that says Orlando Pulse Night Club victims deserved what they got.

That is what I believe as well.
It appears to me that the IFB world has divided, maybe splintered is a better word, into multiple 'camps'.
1. You have the old timers who still insist on the old paths and are led mostly by the old guard. This group is in danger of becoming extinct within the next generation, IMO.

2. You have the New IFB's who unlike the old path-ers embrace technology and use it in their lives and in their ministries. (Many old pathe-rs are still fighting ipads and phone apps VS 'real Bibles' and many don't want screens or drums in their services.)These are led (mostly) by the Millennials who also don't follow the KJVO or pants on female sacred doctrines.

3. There is a third group who I am able to observe first hand in my county/town/area. They allow women to wear pants, teens to wear shorts and use upbeat, southern gospel in their services. Many are KJVO and many preachers add 'and-uh' to the end of their sentences when they preach. This group tends to rally around Camp Meetings.

4. There is another group I have seen online and they follow the Old Path doctrines, standards and convictions but have mostly shed their in your face arrogant attitudes. They have also shed some of the more extreme old path traits...like covert racism and a worship of America.

And there are other sets and subsets of IFB-ism...think Steve Anderson for one.
I think Paul Chappell has been able to keep one foot in at least a couple of the major camps, but as you can see from the fff, he's hardly loved by all.

This is just me talking based on my experience.
What do you IFB-ers think about my assumptions?

 

[Twisted]

It appears to me that the IFB world has divided, maybe splintered is a better word, into multiple 'camps'.

When was the IFB world NEVER divided?

 

[Twisted]

Beyond that, good assumptions.

 

[cpizzle]

I consider myself a combination of groups "2" and "3."

 

[Edwards]

I have been acquainted with Paul Chappell since the early 90's.  The pastor of the church I attended and worked at in CA was a co-worker with Chappell at Trieber's church early on and he was off and on friends with him.  In my mind, Chappell has always represented the 'refined and highly polished' wing of IFB'dom.  He has always been pragmatic in his approach to church growth and standards.  Nothing new to see here.

I have always looked at Paul Chappell in the sense that he is a bit more practical in his approach to ministry (open to change).  He tends to not put new wine (the gospel) into old wineskins

 

[Saved by Grace]

group 3 and 4 with a lil bit of 2;


Im right and everyone else is wrong !!!!  i want a blue ribbon just for posting !!

I do love the friendly converstaion out side of..... @$$ hat boy !!

 

[FSSL]

No, music is the issue.  If adding drums, electric guitars and music with a sensual/rock beat creates "holiness from within", then I came from a monkey.

I?ve met a few IFBs who use drums and electric guitars.

Even a IFB college president has an electric guitar he plays when speaking in churches.

 

[Twisted]

No, music is the issue.  If adding drums, electric guitars and music with a sensual/rock beat creates "holiness from within", then I came from a monkey.

I?ve met a few IFBs who use drums and electric guitars.

Even a IFB college president has an electric guitar he plays when speaking in churches.

Pray for them.

 

[labaptist]

IMHO: Paul Chappell is the only chance that the IFB has of bridging the gap between the "old guard" and the "new IFBs".

Chappell isn't perfect but he hasn't been accused of "alleged adultery" as Hyles (who probably did commit adultery). Nor does he cover up crimes like Trieber does. If anyone brings up the Jeremy Whitman case, we all know the full story and it was beyond Chappell's control after he was fired for drugs. Trieber still hasn't released an official statement or reply to that video.

Certainly Chappell is better at getting "normal" millennial IFBs than Andy-boy in Arizona getting the "crazy/radical" millennial IFBs that says Orlando Pulse Night Club victims deserved what they got.

That is what I believe as well.
It appears to me that the IFB world has divided, maybe splintered is a better word, into multiple 'camps'.
1. You have the old timers who still insist on the old paths and are led mostly by the old guard. This group is in danger of becoming extinct within the next generation, IMO.

2. You have the New IFB's who unlike the old path-ers embrace technology and use it in their lives and in their ministries. (Many old pathe-rs are still fighting ipads and phone apps VS 'real Bibles' and many don't want screens or drums in their services.)These are led (mostly) by the Millennials who also don't follow the KJVO or pants on female sacred doctrines.

3. There is a third group who I am able to observe first hand in my county/town/area. They allow women to wear pants, teens to wear shorts and use upbeat, southern gospel in their services. Many are KJVO and many preachers add 'and-uh' to the end of their sentences when they preach. This group tends to rally around Camp Meetings.

4. There is another group I have seen online and they follow the Old Path doctrines, standards and convictions but have mostly shed their in your face arrogant attitudes. They have also shed some of the more extreme old path traits...like covert racism and a worship of America.

And there are other sets and subsets of IFB-ism...think Steve Anderson for one.
I think Paul Chappell has been able to keep one foot in at least a couple of the major camps, but as you can see from the fff, he's hardly loved by all.

This is just me talking based on my experience.
What do you IFB-ers think about my assumptions?

Could you give me an example of the third set of IFBs? Would Victory Baptist in North Augusta be one?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

IMHO: Paul Chappell is the only chance that the IFB has of bridging the gap between the "old guard" and the "new IFBs".

Chappell isn't perfect but he hasn't been accused of "alleged adultery" as Hyles (who probably did commit adultery). Nor does he cover up crimes like Trieber does. If anyone brings up the Jeremy Whitman case, we all know the full story and it was beyond Chappell's control after he was fired for drugs. Trieber still hasn't released an official statement or reply to that video.

Certainly Chappell is better at getting "normal" millennial IFBs than Andy-boy in Arizona getting the "crazy/radical" millennial IFBs that says Orlando Pulse Night Club victims deserved what they got.

That is what I believe as well.
It appears to me that the IFB world has divided, maybe splintered is a better word, into multiple 'camps'.
1. You have the old timers who still insist on the old paths and are led mostly by the old guard. This group is in danger of becoming extinct within the next generation, IMO.

2. You have the New IFB's who unlike the old path-ers embrace technology and use it in their lives and in their ministries. (Many old pathe-rs are still fighting ipads and phone apps VS 'real Bibles' and many don't want screens or drums in their services.)These are led (mostly) by the Millennials who also don't follow the KJVO or pants on female sacred doctrines.

3. There is a third group who I am able to observe first hand in my county/town/area. They allow women to wear pants, teens to wear shorts and use upbeat, southern gospel in their services. Many are KJVO and many preachers add 'and-uh' to the end of their sentences when they preach. This group tends to rally around Camp Meetings.

4. There is another group I have seen online and they follow the Old Path doctrines, standards and convictions but have mostly shed their in your face arrogant attitudes. They have also shed some of the more extreme old path traits...like covert racism and a worship of America.

And there are other sets and subsets of IFB-ism...think Steve Anderson for one.
I think Paul Chappell has been able to keep one foot in at least a couple of the major camps, but as you can see from the fff, he's hardly loved by all.

This is just me talking based on my experience.
What do you IFB-ers think about my assumptions?

Could you give me an example of the third set of IFBs? Would Victory Baptist in North Augusta be one?

The third group are all around me down here in Bible Belt NC, but one of the most prominent members of this group might be Ralph Sexton in Asheville, NC.
This group also made up the supporting churches of the Burlington Revival, led by C.T. Townsend.
Sorry, but I have no first hand knowledge of the North Augusta church.

 

[Walt]

Everyone has a standard. The problem comes when the arbitrary standard of one group becomes mandatory for everyone else.

The Scriptures tell us that babes have one standard (milk) while those of full age have another (meat).

Yes, I agree that patience and love are to be shown babes.  The "problem" (as I see it) is that those like Josh Teis, run an environment that caters only to babes.  There is no path to "full age", at least not without leaving and going elsewhere.

Those so-called churches that have different "styles" of services are, IMO, out-and-out frauds and compromisers.

I see nothing in Scripture that tells us we should run our assemblies based on the lowest common denominator.  Holiness and godly living and separation from the world is never watered down in Scripture.

I agree.  So much of this anti-standards stance seems to be an over-correction from men preaching their own preferences instead of Biblical standards... one pastor wouldn't let his son wear red; that's fine; that's his choice, but preaching that doing that made his son turn out OK is just silly.  I've heard preaching against all sorts of things (people on here have probably heard more): pink shirts on men, red clothes, white suits on men, ties with curvy lines, men's shoes with fringes, and so on, and so on.

But that doesn't mean that the Bible has no standards; the Bible speaks to how we dress and hair length and music.  These are NOT issues of personal preference.  I understand that people don't agree concerning what the principles laid out mean or how to implement them.  But the "let's just keep quiet and work together to win souls" is also an error.  How do we teach people to observe ALL that Christ has commanded us if we who are not Calvinists must not warn against Calvinism? (just an example).



I think this quote is a good summary of Paul Chappell: "Paul Chappell retains an impressive appearance of old-time conservatism, and this is the flag he flies at his conferences and presents to his ?old time? supporters, but his students have heard the pragmatist side of his ministry loud and clear. West Coast grads are starting contemporary churches in many places, and they are being prepared for that at Lancaster. They are not falling far from the tree. "

Do you personally know Teis, his standards, his preaching and the depth of his ministry?
Personally, I probably wouldn?t want either Teis or Chappell to be my Pastor, but they are a far sight better than what has passed for successful ministry in the IFB?s past.

I don't think I've heard of Teis before; I'm aware of Paul Chappel mostly through WCBC.  I know he was Youth Pastor under Jack Trieber and may have been the originator of the 100% for Hyles buttons back in the day, but I've never been to Paul Chappel's church.

 

[Walt]

IMHO: Paul Chappell is the only chance that the IFB has of bridging the gap between the "old guard" and the "new IFBs".

Chappell isn't perfect but he hasn't been accused of "alleged adultery" as Hyles (who probably did commit adultery). Nor does he cover up crimes like Trieber does. If anyone brings up the Jeremy Whitman case, we all know the full story and it was beyond Chappell's control after he was fired for drugs. Trieber still hasn't released an official statement or reply to that video.

Certainly Chappell is better at getting "normal" millennial IFBs than Andy-boy in Arizona getting the "crazy/radical" millennial IFBs that says Orlando Pulse Night Club victims deserved what they got.

That is what I believe as well.
It appears to me that the IFB world has divided, maybe splintered is a better word, into multiple 'camps'.
1. You have the old timers who still insist on the old paths and are led mostly by the old guard. This group is in danger of becoming extinct within the next generation, IMO.

2. You have the New IFB's who unlike the old path-ers embrace technology and use it in their lives and in their ministries. (Many old pathe-rs are still fighting ipads and phone apps VS 'real Bibles' and many don't want screens or drums in their services.)These are led (mostly) by the Millennials who also don't follow the KJVO or pants on female sacred doctrines.

3. There is a third group who I am able to observe first hand in my county/town/area. They allow women to wear pants, teens to wear shorts and use upbeat, southern gospel in their services. Many are KJVO and many preachers add 'and-uh' to the end of their sentences when they preach. This group tends to rally around Camp Meetings.

4. There is another group I have seen online and they follow the Old Path doctrines, standards and convictions but have mostly shed their in your face arrogant attitudes. They have also shed some of the more extreme old path traits...like covert racism and a worship of America.

And there are other sets and subsets of IFB-ism...think Steve Anderson for one.
I think Paul Chappell has been able to keep one foot in at least a couple of the major camps, but as you can see from the fff, he's hardly loved by all.

This is just me talking based on my experience.
What do you IFB-ers think about my assumptions?

I like them, but it would be helpful to know who you is representative of these groups. Is #1 the people like Tom Neal and Bob Gray Sr (TX)?

I'm not sure what the difference is between #2 and #3 -- #2 agrees with #3 but doesn't let it be known, whereas #3 is blatant?

#4 may be like our church... but I don't believe that they were ever racist (they are less than 25 years old), so they didn't have anything to "shed" -- but the pastor believes in letting the Holy Spirit change people instead of screaming at people to cut their hair another 1/8 of an inch.

 

[cpizzle]

Examples:

#1 - Bob Grey Sr., Tom Neil, Alan Domele, Jeff Fugate, Guy Beaumont, Mike Wells
#2 - Josh Teis, Eric Tastet, Josh Cox, Dave Abberger, Scott Tewell
#3 - Tony Hutson, Sammy Alan, Jon Jenkins (maybe?)
#4 - John Wilkerson, Rick Finley, Jack Trieber, Paul Chappel, Shelton Smith, Most former HAC/FBC Staff members who no pastor

Many of these folks will crossover, but this is fairly accurate in my opinion.

 

[Walt]

Examples:

#1 - Bob Grey Sr., Tom Neil, Alan Domele, Jeff Fugate, Guy Beaumont, Mike Wells
#2 - Josh Teis, Eric Tastet, Josh Cox, Dave Abberger, Scott Tewell
#3 - Tony Hutson, Sammy Alan, Jon Jenkins (maybe?)
#4 - John Wilkerson, Rick Finley, Jack Trieber, Paul Chappel, Shelton Smith, Most former HAC/FBC Staff members who no pastor

Many of these folks will crossover, but this is fairly accurate in my opinion.

Thank you!

 

[Walt]

Examples:

#1 - Bob Grey Sr., Tom Neil, Alan Domele, Jeff Fugate, Guy Beaumont, Mike Wells
#2 - Josh Teis, Eric Tastet, Josh Cox, Dave Abberger, Scott Tewell
#3 - Tony Hutson, Sammy Alan, Jon Jenkins (maybe?)
#4 - John Wilkerson, Rick Finley, Jack Trieber, Paul Chappel, Shelton Smith, Most former HAC/FBC Staff members who no pastor

Many of these folks will crossover, but this is fairly accurate in my opinion.

I'm shocked that Tony Hutson and Jon Jenkins allow women to wear pants and teens to wear shorts.

 

[cpizzle]

I was a member of Tony Hutson's church before I became a pastor of where I am now.  Bro. Tony occasionaly mentioned "dresses" but he never condemned pants.  A look around his church showed that it was not something he cared about.  I'm not sure about Jon Jenkins when it comes to "pants on women", but my guess is he has let the standard "softly" die as well. 

Pants on women is no longer preached against but is also not promoted by most IFB's today.  Preachers walk a "fine line" on this.  On one hand, they know it is a "phony" standard and they have no desire to alienate 80% of their members by saying what they wear is an abomination.  On the other hand, there are many women in the church who have made the decision to only wear dresses due to the standards of the past.  The pastor wants to "praise" them for their dedication and not do anything that causes them to stumble.  Thus, he promotes "sunday best" and requires dresses for Sunday School teachers and ladies in other leadership positions.  This makes the Sunday Morning service look like HAC Chapel, but in all other activities, pants and shorts abound.

Pants on women is only an issue now for group #1.  It is no longer a "founding doctrine" of Indepenent Baptists. 

 

[Walt]

I was a member of Tony Hutson's church before I became a pastor of where I am now.  Bro. Tony occasionaly mentioned "dresses" but he never condemned pants.  A look around his church showed that it was not something he cared about.  I'm not sure about Jon Jenkins when it comes to "pants on women", but my guess is he has let the standard "softly" die as well. 

Pants on women is no longer preached against but is also not promoted by most IFB's today.  Preachers walk a "fine line" on this.  On one hand, they know it is a "phony" standard and they have no desire to alienate 80% of their members by saying what they wear is an abomination.  On the other hand, there are many women in the church who have made the decision to only wear dresses due to the standards of the past.  The pastor wants to "praise" them for their dedication and not do anything that causes them to stumble.  Thus, he promotes "sunday best" and requires dresses for Sunday School teachers and ladies in other leadership positions.  This makes the Sunday Morning service look like HAC Chapel, but in all other activities, pants and shorts abound.

Pants on women is only an issue now for group #1.  It is no longer a "founding doctrine" of Indepenent Baptists.

Thanks for the clarification.

I know pastors who believe that women should not wear pants, but they never preach it - only that women should dress modestly.  However, a woman that wants to teach Sunday School is required to not wear pants to church. I'm not sure where that puts these men.