What would a Calvinist do if he found out "freewill" exists?

[rsc2a]

Yes, but my point was that the events have vastly different importance in the grand scheme of things.

So please tell us, where do we draw the line between "event important for God to ordain the evils that set them in motion," and "unimportant event outside of God's control"?

It's somewhere in between crucifying the Messiah and raping a little girl, according to you, so perhaps you can be more specific.

I have no idea. Are you saying there is no line?

Saying there is a line is a confession for deism, not Christianity.

 

[Ransom]

I have no idea. Are you saying there is no line?

Answer the question. Don't just dodge it and shift it back to me.

 

[TimbauxRioux]

I have no idea. Are you saying there is no line?

Answer the question. Don't just dodge it and shift it back to me.

That's Molinistic teaching...that God makes his moves knowing what man will freely do.

 

[christundivided]

Of course they were guilty.

God, in His foreknowledge, knows of every single sin that has and will be committed. This does not mean that He chooses and or ordains that each sin be committed. Being omniscient, God can allow man a choice and still accomplish His ultimate will. He's that good!

So was Jesus' crucifixion merely "allowed" or was it foreordained?

I may be jumping too far ahead of you but if you prove that God foreordained man to sin by crucifying Christ that's a far cry from proving that God foreordains a man to sin who rapes a child. One event saves the entire world, one does not.

If God did not foreordain sin, then God is a moron.  After all, Satan could not get into the garden without God's permission. 

And I'm pretty sure God was not taken surprised by what happened.  "Satan deceived the woman???  I'm SHOCKED!!! SHOCKED, I tell you!"  God would have to get the Louis Renault award for that. 

God could have prevented the fall by NOT placing the forbidden tree in the garden, and/or by keeping Satan out if it.  It the fall was so easy to prevent (and it was), then one must question why God didn't do it.

God brings order to chaos. HE DOES NOT CREATE chaos. To allow chaos is total different than to cause chaos.

One of the measure of knowledge in Deity is knowing when not to get involved.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I have no idea. Are you saying there is no line?

Answer the question. Don't just dodge it and shift it back to me.

? I did answer the question. I don't know.

 

[Ransom]

I did answer the question. I don't know.

Then how do you know child rape is on the other side of the line from Jesus' Crucifixion?

 

[christundivided]

I did answer the question. I don't know.

Then how do you know child rape is on the other side of the line from Jesus' Crucifixion?

Taking your queues from rsca now?

 

[Holy Mole]

Of course they were guilty.

God, in His foreknowledge, knows of every single sin that has and will be committed. This does not mean that He chooses and or ordains that each sin be committed. Being omniscient, God can allow man a choice and still accomplish His ultimate will. He's that good!

So was Jesus' crucifixion merely "allowed" or was it foreordained?

I may be jumping too far ahead of you but if you prove that God foreordained man to sin by crucifying Christ that's a far cry from proving that God foreordains a man to sin who rapes a child. One event saves the entire world, one does not.

If God did not foreordain sin, then God is a moron.  After all, Satan could not get into the garden without God's permission. 

And I'm pretty sure God was not taken surprised by what happened.  "Satan deceived the woman???  I'm SHOCKED!!! SHOCKED, I tell you!"  God would have to get the Louis Renault award for that. 

God could have prevented the fall by NOT placing the forbidden tree in the garden, and/or by keeping Satan out if it.  It the fall was so easy to prevent (and it was), then one must question why God didn't do it.

I'm not sure what came first your distorted view of God or your insistence that there cannot be a freewill but both are related. As darkness and cold are merely the absence of light and heat the existence of evil was not a creation but rather the by product of the choice to do good. 

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I did answer the question. I don't know.

Then how do you know child rape is on the other side of the line from Jesus' Crucifixion?

You seemed to be trying to prove that since God foreordained the crucifixion then that somehow proves that God foreordained child rape. My point was that I will need more Bible to back that up. I don't see that one logically follows the other. The events are very dissimilar.