When We Fail

The leaders of the various FFFs don't understand why they succeeded, and they don't understand why it is failing now.

Over the years, I have lurked on different FFFs. Occasionally, a poster would object to the scorners who insulted other posters. A flock of scorners would immediately gang up on the poster, ripping into him and driving him out of the discussion. In other words...

Discussion of scorning on the FFF was controlled by scorners.

Over the years, the number of scorners increased, as the number of posters decreased. The FFF before this one ended up  almost totally controlled by scorners who ripped into each other, along with attacking Godly posters.

Then this FFF started. Most of the scorners did not join, posts and posters went up heavily, and then...
 
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Scorners started working this forum. Two of them would simply cruise through the posts, making insults and accusations at the posters. Whenever anyone objected, other scorners would jump in to attack the person being scorned. The person being attacked would back down, and scorners were the only ones teaching on scorning.

I had wondered over the years what would happen if someone stood up to the scorners and refused to back down.  I honestly didn't know what would happen. But after thinking and praying, I decided to go for it.

As far as I know, it was the first time in the history of the FFFs that someone had done this.

At first, there was an outpouring of hatred, but I had expected that--it what the scorners always did. But when I wouldn't back down, it was a first-time event for the scorners. So then...
 
Vince Massi said:
The leaders of the various FFFs don't understand why they succeeded, and they don't understand why it is failing now.

Over the years, I have lurked on different FFFs. Occasionally, a poster would object to the scorners who insulted other posters. A flock of scorners would immediately gang up on the poster, ripping into him and driving him out of the discussion. In other words...

Discussion of scorning on the FFF was controlled by scorners.

Over the years, the number of scorners increased, as the number of posters decreased. The FFF before this one ended up  almost totally controlled by scorners who ripped into each other, along with attacking Godly posters.

Then this FFF started. Most of the scorners did not join, posts and posters went up heavily, and then...
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"I'm so dizzy, my head is spinning."
 
"I'm so dizzy, my head is spinning."

Courage, Jo! It will get worse, I mean, better, uhm...Well just hang in there.
 
I just realize something, I realize the brilliance of Vinces' statements.  He is actually able,to absorb the blows of criticism, but then his own mind, turn to obfuscate the situation. Then turn the attack around to his accusers. I see the brilliance of the strategy. And in fact, I'm gonna try this on my wife tonight when I go home. This will work, I know it!! I will write a book on this, make a million bucks, sell the rights to a movie...you'll all be in it of course.... we'll all be rich!!!
 
With scorners ripping into me, the number of "hits" from lurkers rose heavily. I think that a lot of people only check in once in a while, and it took a while for them to find out what was going on.

I showed from Scripture that scorners are describing themselves, that they have no wisdom, that God blesses those who ignore scorners, that scorners are not disciples, etc., and within a couple of weeks we were down to only a small group of dedicated scorners.

Then, for three days straight, no scorner posted. We dropped about 40 hits per day, and I figured those were the scorn supporters. But the numbers started to climb and the scorners returned. It happened again, and the numbers only dropped slightly. Finally, whenever the scorners stayed way, the numbers increased. We were eventually getting over 140 hits per day.
 
My understanding of the word "scorner," biblically, means that the person is unregenerate.

Since the problem with the thread has been a misuse of Scripture via an application that is not derived from the original intent, meaning and context of the verse, calls to reject the misuse does NOT render a person a "scorner." Rather, the abuser of Scripture is the one needing correction, or proving that his interpretation is exegetically sound.
 
FSSL said:
My understanding of the word "scorner," biblically, means that the person is unregenerate.

Since the problem with the thread has been a misuse of Scripture via an application that is not derived from the original intent, meaning and context of the verse, calls to reject the misuse does NOT render a person a "scorner." Rather, the abuser of Scripture is the one needing correction, or proving that his interpretation is exegetically sound.
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He only calls Scott a scorner because he doesn't know how to spell ...





DOEG!!!



;D
 
Calling a person a "scorner" has always been a favorite IFBr's way to attempt to shut down those who challenge him.

It alleviates their necessity to provide an answer to the IFB sheep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Vince Massi said:
Valid points, Jo. I should explain that I am emphasizing Christian service,  as well as our personal lives.

God gives us reasons why we fail, but He also gives us ways to succeed. A Christian who fails may or may not practice the reasons for failure, but he definitely did not practice the methods for success.

1) We didn't use the methods that bring success.

Several years ago, a large group did a study of churches that were started  "cold turkey." They divided these churches into those that succeeded and those that failed. Then both types had their methods divided into three groups: the methods that worked, the methods that failed, and methods that they did not use. Although there were always exceptions, it usually worked out the same way,

The failed churches correctly blamed their failure on unsuccessful methods. But they rejected the successful methods of the churches that succeeded! The failed churches had methods they believed were successful, but when successful churches tried those methods, they didn't work.

A person who fails in Christian service is not using  God's methods for success. And you won't learn those methods by listening to them.
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I'm not sure that we are very good at determining "success" and "failure" -- especially in our "success-oriented" culture.  We think that a church that is now growing numerically is a failure, and one that is growing numerically is a success.

Let us consider Jonah - by any of our measures, he was a wild success - he had a 1-3 day evangelistic campaign with huge numbers of people repenting before God. If he had hosted workshops or seminars, his "string of fish" would ensure standing-room-only crowds.

And then there is Noah -- preaching for 120 years with absolutely one one saved... by the 5th year, most churches would have dropped him, and no one would go to his seminars.

And yet God, in His "hall of fame" lists Noah and omits Jonah.  Noah's focus was on obeying what God had given him to do and not becoming obsessed with the results, and he remained faithful. Jonah had great results, but faithfulness to obeying God isn't one of the things that spring to mind.
 
Jo said:
IMO, your posts on this subject tend to lean towards legalism.

For example, if you are in Christian service, follow these x, y and z steps, and you should be successful.  If you are not successful, then you didn't follow the steps...am I right?  Capiche?
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I think you mean pragmatism, not legalism.

 
Jo said:
There is a really cool video of Denzel Washington speaking to a graduating class somewhere.  He says some important words, "YOU WILL FAIL."  He goes on to tell how many times he failed. 

It's an important lesson and unfortunately, how most of us learn.

To me, whether it is Christian service or just Christian living, we WILL fail at something.  We may even fail often.  If we don't get up and try again and again, THAT is our biggest mistake.
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As I said earlier, I believe that we are too worried about results... we will be a success in our Lord's eyes if we will do what He would have us to do and leave the results in His hands.

Can you imagine Job with this attitude?  When things started going badly, he would be rushing around, trying to figure out why he "failed", and what he could do to be a "success" again? Whether good things happened or bad things happened, Job praised the Lord and honored Him.
 
Vince Massi said:
Christians who  fail in their service often don't understand why they fail. We'll be on this for a while.

A successful entrepreneur, who had started several successful small businesses, did a study on why new businesses fail. The owners would tell him why they had lost customers. But when he talked to customers who had stopped buying from those businesses, they gave different reasons.

When I started at a paper mill, my net worth was less than $1,000. Fourteen years later, I retired to Mexico, while my co-workers could not afford to leave. Twelve years later, most of them are still there. While the US stock market averages over 10% per year, most investors don't do that well, and many of them lose their money. Researching heavily, I could see what they were doing wrong and avoided those mistakes. But I also read that when their mistakes were explained to them, most of them refused to change.

Some people don't understand why they fail, even when it is proven to them. Why not?
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Maybe they know the verse:
[I saw] that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong...  but time and chance happeneth to them all.

You may be able to point out where others made mistakes, but that doesn't mean that they would necessarily be successful.
 
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