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Route_70 said:
Shakespeare was right. The devil can quote Scripture for his purpose. And lo, there he is.
When We Fail
- Thread starter Vince Massi
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Shakespeare was right. The devil can quote Scripture for his purpose. And lo, there he is.
Vince Massi said:
... and yet, you do make a comment.
Are you not committing the same error as Route_70 as being s judge of others' souls?
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FSSL said:
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Vince Massi said:
Lol... Imagine this. I recently received a warning (from Google) about the threads that one of those angry Christians posted on this forum. I say, "Good Riddins!"
Google has NEVER warned me about a post or thread that Ransom posted.
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Vince Massi said:
After flipping out and falsely accusing me of stalking relatives on Facebook, as I recall. Does raise the question of who was bullying whom, doesn't it?
I would be very careful judging exactly who is a success and who is a failure. To the lost man, on a remote island, having someone to share the gospel means everything. His measure of success will be, did the missionary answer when he heard Gods call to go. Nothing else will matter.
Vince, How do you measure success for a missionary?
1. Is it the size of your mission ministry at time of retirement?
One can serve on a remote island and be in the center of Gods will.
2. Is it the number of native pastors you have a part in training?
Are 5 native pastors serving 2500 people any less than 25 serving 100.
3. Is it the number of churches you start during your ministry?
As far as I know Rick Martin has only started one church in the Philippines, but he has had a part in training
over 500 young men who are pastors and missionaries all over the world.
4. Is it how well known you are, back in the states or in the country in which you serve?
When we get to Heaven, all that will matter is where you doing Gods will for your life and did you do it well.
5. Is it the number of years you spend on the field.
Oswald J. Smith was only on the field about a year while he was training, but was he a failure as a
missionary.
Oswald J. Smith was called to mission work but served a very short time because of very weak health. He would start the Peoples church in Canada and through that work would have a hand in supporting and have a hand in seeing hundreds and hundreds of missionaries get to the field. God would use him as an advocate and recruiter of a generation on U.S. and Canadian missionaries. Many might say he failed as a missionary but I think he was one of the greatest missionaries of the 1900's. I believe God call him to a specific mission role and he answered the call.
Billy Graham said at Smiths funeral, "I've lost a dear friend, the man who had more impact on my life than any other - a great preacher, a great songwriter, a man who stands equal with Moody and Torrey. As a Missionary Statesman he stands alone. There was no equal."
Vince, How do you measure success for a missionary?
1. Is it the size of your mission ministry at time of retirement?
One can serve on a remote island and be in the center of Gods will.
2. Is it the number of native pastors you have a part in training?
Are 5 native pastors serving 2500 people any less than 25 serving 100.
3. Is it the number of churches you start during your ministry?
As far as I know Rick Martin has only started one church in the Philippines, but he has had a part in training
over 500 young men who are pastors and missionaries all over the world.
4. Is it how well known you are, back in the states or in the country in which you serve?
When we get to Heaven, all that will matter is where you doing Gods will for your life and did you do it well.
5. Is it the number of years you spend on the field.
Oswald J. Smith was only on the field about a year while he was training, but was he a failure as a
missionary.
Oswald J. Smith was called to mission work but served a very short time because of very weak health. He would start the Peoples church in Canada and through that work would have a hand in supporting and have a hand in seeing hundreds and hundreds of missionaries get to the field. God would use him as an advocate and recruiter of a generation on U.S. and Canadian missionaries. Many might say he failed as a missionary but I think he was one of the greatest missionaries of the 1900's. I believe God call him to a specific mission role and he answered the call.
Billy Graham said at Smiths funeral, "I've lost a dear friend, the man who had more impact on my life than any other - a great preacher, a great songwriter, a man who stands equal with Moody and Torrey. As a Missionary Statesman he stands alone. There was no equal."
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sword said:
William Carey spent 8 years in India before he saw his first convert. I guess Vince would think he was a failure.
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Having previously failed here, a missionary family returned t the house they owned here. They quickly became hostile to the successful Mexican Pentecostal pastor who lived a block away, and after a few months, they were hostile to me.
I did get the husband to help drive our van route three times. But I had to pay for his gas, his wife kept objecting, and he stopped. As far as I know, that is the only mission work he did in four years.
I would see the wife show up at a Christian orphanage . She despised me and would head into the offices without ever teaching or helping. The director's husband told me that he had never seen her do anything. After a lot of begging and pleading, I got her to teach a Wednesday night children's church that my wife and I ran. She did far better than we do, but refused to do it again.
They were tight financially and made clear that they did not want to do any Christian service unless they got paid. With abundant opportunities to serve in low-level jobs, they refused to do anything that did not give them ruling power.
When they left, a woman opened an orphanage in their house. In the tiny park across the street we held children's church services because we could use the bathroom in the house. Opportunities for success were there, but they failed because they would only rule, not serve.
I did get the husband to help drive our van route three times. But I had to pay for his gas, his wife kept objecting, and he stopped. As far as I know, that is the only mission work he did in four years.
I would see the wife show up at a Christian orphanage . She despised me and would head into the offices without ever teaching or helping. The director's husband told me that he had never seen her do anything. After a lot of begging and pleading, I got her to teach a Wednesday night children's church that my wife and I ran. She did far better than we do, but refused to do it again.
They were tight financially and made clear that they did not want to do any Christian service unless they got paid. With abundant opportunities to serve in low-level jobs, they refused to do anything that did not give them ruling power.
When they left, a woman opened an orphanage in their house. In the tiny park across the street we held children's church services because we could use the bathroom in the house. Opportunities for success were there, but they failed because they would only rule, not serve.
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Christians fail in their service because
A fourth reason why Christians fail: They do not understand how pride and humility work.
A variety of posters (including me) have been attacked on a variety of forums for telling about how God is blessing them. A variety of attackers, by a variety of means, tend to say the same three things when they attack:
1) You're proud
2) You think you're better than me because God is using you
3) My obedience proves that God is pleased with me.
The result is that posters who do not understand how pride and humility work are the only ones posting.
A fourth reason why Christians fail: They do not understand how pride and humility work.
A variety of posters (including me) have been attacked on a variety of forums for telling about how God is blessing them. A variety of attackers, by a variety of means, tend to say the same three things when they attack:
1) You're proud
2) You think you're better than me because God is using you
3) My obedience proves that God is pleased with me.
The result is that posters who do not understand how pride and humility work are the only ones posting.
Vince Massi said:
And after reading your posts, you still haven't learned this lesson yet. You haven't answered any accusations yet Vince and the longer you don't, you look more and more guilty.....
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Recovering IFB said:
Actually, I'm quietly watching others attack Ransom (I hadn't planned on that) and am watching the view count.
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"Vince, you're just a little weird, aren't ya? I mean I like ya and all, but....."
A "little"?
Twisted, I'm a 64 year old Baptist Gringo who can't speak Spanish who trudges through the mountains of Mexico every week visiting a van route for a Pentecostal church.
A "little"?
Twisted, I'm a 64 year old Baptist Gringo who can't speak Spanish who trudges through the mountains of Mexico every week visiting a van route for a Pentecostal church.
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I was in my eleventh year of Catholic school when I accepted Christ. And I was influenced by Catholic saints. These people were so great that they had actually earned more righteousness than they needed.
As a result, I had a hard time understanding humility. If I served God successfully, then I was great (like a Catholic saint). Humility was actually dishonest, because you pretended that God did it when you did it. Yet the Bible commanded humility.
With God working on me, I learned that any success we have in Christian service comes from God, not ourselves. We are not so great that we have an excess of righteousness. God empowers us to serve Him successfully, and He motivates us to do so. Around 1971, I realized that if there is anything good in me, it came from God.
Eventually, Christians being used by God learn this. When a Christian tells of how God has blessed him, someone will attack , stating that it was God, not the Christian. What the attacker doesn't realize is that the person he is attacking already knows that, and probably learned it long ago.
As a result, I had a hard time understanding humility. If I served God successfully, then I was great (like a Catholic saint). Humility was actually dishonest, because you pretended that God did it when you did it. Yet the Bible commanded humility.
With God working on me, I learned that any success we have in Christian service comes from God, not ourselves. We are not so great that we have an excess of righteousness. God empowers us to serve Him successfully, and He motivates us to do so. Around 1971, I realized that if there is anything good in me, it came from God.
Eventually, Christians being used by God learn this. When a Christian tells of how God has blessed him, someone will attack , stating that it was God, not the Christian. What the attacker doesn't realize is that the person he is attacking already knows that, and probably learned it long ago.
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Vince Massi said:
I'm going to hazard a suggestion that Captain I'm-going-to-monologue-endlessly-and-never-answer-questions-as-if-there-are-no-credible-objections-to-my-teaching still has a way to go in the humility department . . .
Either you are delusional or you are lying..........I'll let you decide. Vince, you think you are being coy but in actuality you are embarrassing yourself. You have made comments and you are being called on. Let me ask you Vince; if somebody in the congregation you attend came to you with these questions, would you "shuck and jive " as much as you have shown here ? I understand this isn't a church, but our character as brothers in Christ should have us, at least, treat each other as we were. We owe that much to the Lord.Vince Massi said:
Now, answer these accusations, or I'll note you as a fraud that you are being portrayed...
Route_70 said:
you have denied God, so what do you care? To you, I am not doing anything wrong, I'm just stardust bumping into other stardust. Am I right?
You see, you can not make sense out of your worldview without borrowing from God, But remember Rom. 1:18?, you really do believe. also see Matthew 18 for my conversation with Vince.....
Have a nice day..
