When We Fail

[Ransom]

But St. Augustine forbids you to believe that verse. . . . And, if you're a Calvinist, you are required to rely on your own understanding, rather than trust God.

Please, tell me more . . . of the garbage they apparently taught you at Hyles-Anderson Clown College that you apparently believed blindly.

 

[Vince Massi]

So Viince, younhavrnt giving your definition of success, what do you consider success?

i apologize, Recovering. I missed your post.

In this specific case, I am defining success as realizing that we have to trust God, rather than our own understanding. If a Christian refuses to do so, that Christian has failed. Once a Christian learns to trust God, rather than his own understanding, God will establish successful paths for him.

 

[Recovering IFB]

But St. Augustine forbids you to believe that verse. You are commanded to accept his blend of paganism and Christianity instead of trusting entirely in God's Word.

Prove it! Where is the source of this?  what citation are you using to substantiate this claim?

You might like the concepts that God only loves the elect, only died for some men, only draws some men, only enlightens some men, etc., but you're going to have to deal with Scripture that clearly teaches otherwise. And, if you're a Calvinist, you are required to rely on your own understanding, rather than trust God.

What are they Vince? I'd like to see them. Or am I doomed like Ransom, never to get an answer from you? (which, to me, shows everyone what a fraud you really are. You know the saying;"put up or shut up")

 

[Route_70]

You might like the concepts that God only loves the elect, only died for some men, only draws some men, only enlightens some men, etc., but you're going to have to deal with Scripture that clearly teaches otherwise. And, if you're a Calvinist, you are required to rely on your own understanding, rather than trust God.

What are they Vince? I'd like to see them. Or am I doomed like Ransom, never to get an answer from you? (which, to me, shows everyone what a fraud you really are. You know the saying;"put up or shut up")

Heck, that's easy!  Even I can do it!

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (I John 2:2)."

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me (John 12:32)."

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16)."

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:  But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him (Acts 10:34, 35)."

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance (II Peter 3:9)."

 

[Vince Massi]

Thank you, Dan.

Now, Recovering, I'm going to try to say this kindly. You and God are having a conflict over words. He does not like your speaking evil of the brethren, and you do not like His statement that your attacks describe yourself. This conflict expands into your doctrine. As a disciple of St. Augustine, an unsaved pagan philosopher who converted to neither Christianity nor Catholicism, you are required to reject a large number of Scriptures that state plainly that God's plan is for all men to be saved.

Proverbs 3:5-6 tells us to trust in the Lord, not in our own understanding. As a Calvinist, you are required to fail in that area.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Heck, that's easy!  Even I can do it!

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (I John 2:2)."

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance (II Peter 3:9)."

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me (John 12:32)."

Unless you are a Univeralist, this is your verse but its false
John is writing a letter to the church, He is talking about all the believers in the world, all KINDS of believers.
Or else it's in conflict with Matthew 1: 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.?
Or Hebrews 7: 25 Therefore, he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, since he always lives to intercede for them.
read the context of the verses you gave, I know HAC doesnt teach contextualization.

Next:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16)."

and again in it's context: John 3: 15 so that everyone who believes in him may[d] have eternal life. 16 For God loved the world in this way:[e] He gave[f] his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Anyone who believes in him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. 19 This is the judgment: The light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and avoids it,[g] so that his deeds may not be exposed. 21 But anyone who lives by[h] the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be shown to be accomplished by God.?
Kinda changes it, huh?

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:  But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him (Acts 10:34, 35)."

again this is talking about the fruit of believers...this doesn't make your point.......

Thank you, Dan.

Now, Recovering, I'm going to try to say this kindly. You and God are having a conflict over words. He does not like your speaking evil of the brethren, and you do not like His statement that your attacks describe yourself. This conflict expands into your doctrine. As a disciple of St. Augustine, an unsaved pagan philosopher who converted to neither Christianity nor Catholicism, you are required to reject a large number of Scriptures that state plainly that God's plan is for all men to be saved.

Proverbs 3:5-6 tells us to trust in the Lord, not in our own understanding. As a Calvinist, you are required to fail in that area.

And again Vince, you haven't Proven what Augustine or Calvin taught. Where is the evidence?
Its very clear that neither HAC or it's students have read or understand any of the Reformers or church history. Vince is putting his ignorance on full display....bravo Vince, bravo!

 

[Ransom]

Now, Recovering, I'm going to try to say this kindly.

I believe Recovering told you to put up or shut up.

You have done neither.

You failure.

Maybe Recovering is right and I'm "doomed" never to get a straight answer from you. Nonetheless, I'm going to keep asking, only because every time I do, it underscores what a pretentious phony you, Vince Massi, actually are.

You have failed to answer these questions. You are a failure.

You have failed to answer these questions. You are twice a failure.

And you have failed to answer this question. You are three times a failure.

 

[Vince Massi]

Submission to God is one way to receive humility.  James 4:10 gives us a second  way, which overlaps the first:

"Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up."

Okay, but HOW do you humble yourself in the sight of the Lord? There is more than one way, and the next two verses give one of them:

"11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another? "

A Christian who decides that he is fit to judge has also decided that he is fit to reject God's commands not to do so. And since God does not permit any of us to judge, He does not give any of us the ability to do so. That is why the end of verse 12 points out that none of us are good enough to judge.

A person who goes around condemning God's people has failed to receive humility by submitting to God, as well as failing to receive humility by humbling himself.

 

[Ransom]

Once, twice, three times a failure...

 

[Route_70]

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (I John 2:2)."

Unless you are a Univeralist, this is your verse but its false
John is writing a letter to the church, He is talking about all the believers in the world, all KINDS of believers.
Or else it's in conflict with Matthew 1: 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.?
Or Hebrews 7: 25 Therefore, he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, since he always lives to intercede for them.
read the context of the verses you gave, I know HAC doesnt teach contextualization.

I won't argue with you -- except maybe just a little bit, just this once.  I don't care what you do or do not believe.  But here is an example of how nearly all apologists defend their beliefs:  they go through all kinds of contortions, including rising from the dead, to make something look like it supports their beliefs.  And they do this by ignoring what is said, and inserting what they say it is "talking about," as you put it.

Furthermore, thank you for pointing out something that I have been preaching for a long time: the Bible is full to the brim and running over with errors, inconsistencies, and contradictions.

 

[Twisted]

And you have failed to answer this question. You are three times a failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok7becfXoJE

 

[Ransom]

We got to about 140 hits per day when I was standing up to the scorners, and eventually, Ransom was the only scorner left.  So I thought I would try an experiment.

Why are you so concerned with "hits"?

Web page hits are kind of like the Internet's currency. Vince is trying to claim that they are a measure of his posts' credibility.

He's been at this schtick for a long time. Unfortunately for him--and unlike him--the webmaster actually has access to forum stats. A few years ago Vince tried to claim that a thread was getting "100 hits per day" from people who wanted to learn from him. The webmaster posted the stats showing that the thread was getting nowhere near that.

In short, Vince lies.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Submission to God is one way to receive humility.  James 4:10 gives us a second  way, which overlaps the first:

"Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up."

Okay, but HOW do you humble yourself in the sight of the Lord? There is more than one way, and the next two verses give one of them:

"11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another? "

A Christian who decides that he is fit to judge has also decided that he is fit to reject God's commands not to do so. And since God does not permit any of us to judge, He does not give any of us the ability to do so. That is why the end of verse 12 points out that none of us are good enough to judge.

A person who goes around condemning God's people has failed to receive humility by submitting to God, as well as failing to receive humility by humbling himself.

Do
You have the source of Augustine' s or Calvin's quote in to ignore Proverbs 3?

Still waiting......

 

[Vince Massi]

"You have the source of Augustine' s or Calvin's quote in to ignore Proverbs 3?"

Yes

. Every Calvinist who states that "all" means "all kinds," "every" means "some," and "the world" means "the elect" is a source that we are to reject Proverbs 3:5-6 and go by our own understanding instead.

 

[Recovering IFB]

"You have the source of Augustine' s or Calvin's quote in to ignore Proverbs 3?"

Yes

. Every Calvinist who states that "all" means "all kinds," "every" means "some," and "the world" means "the elect" is a source that we are to reject Proverbs 3:5-6 and go by our own understanding instead.

Is everyone reading this?
Now was I talking about everyone in the world? Everyone on the internet?, everyone in this forum? Which is it Vince?
You see context is everything?


Btw where are those sources on Augustine and Calvin? I do t remember seeing anything like that in the Institutes........

 

[Ransom]

"You have the source of Augustine' s or Calvin's quote in to ignore Proverbs 3?"

Yes

. Every Calvinist who states that "all" means "all kinds," "every" means "some," and "the world" means "the elect" is a source that we are to reject Proverbs 3:5-6 and go by our own understanding instead.

So if you have the source, why didn't you quote it?

When Vince says "yes," he means "no." Good grief!

 

[Vince Massi]

Recovering, I have already told you that God has not authorized me to be a mediator in the conflict between you two. By disobeying God's commands not to speak evil of the brethren, you are able to disguise your attacks on His word as attacks on me. I'm going to have to pull the plug on this.

Readers, Calvinists are pretty strong in their rejection of God's Word, and it helps to understand why. I have started a short series on the history of unconditional election at http://www.fundamentalforums.org/calvinism-arminianism/the-history-of-unconditional-election/

 

[Ransom]

Readers, Calvinists are pretty strong in their rejection of God's Word, and it helps to understand why.

Of course, there will be no understanding coming from Vince the Blowhard, since he never answers anyone's questions.

 

[Vince Massi]

Romans 14:4 contains a puzzling verse about judging others: "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand."

God works in the lives of His people. Because he clearly forbids us to speak evil of the brethren, those who judge are outside of God's work. The person being judged will stand, because God will make him stand--this work of God leaves no room for the person judging.

Now, if scorners have no place in God's plan for your life, why should you listen to them?

Want to better uderstand Romans 14:4? http://biblehub.com/romans/14-4.htm

 

[Ransom]

Romans 14:4 contains a puzzling verse about judging others: "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand."

It's not puzzling at all. Paul is saying that rather than quarrel over "opinions" (Rom. 14:1), believers should not look down on one another for preferring one morally indifferent practice over another (e.g. eating meat, observing certain holidays, etc.). They stand before their own master, that is, God, not the differing opinions of other Christians.

Kindly don't set your own personal ignorance as the baseline for everyone else.