Why I no longer worship.

I no longer worship.

I'm a hypocrite because that's not completely true; worship is in our DNA and is universal among all humans and cultures. Our desires create the object of worship. Apart from that contradiction which is within all humanity, here is why I don't worship God.

1. God exists beyond time and space.
2. Mankind is incapable of understanding what or if anything exists outside of time and space (though the Cosmological argument tends to suggest there has to be).
3. Because we cannot know if/what exists, the best we can do is speculate through projection of what exists out there, whether that is an actual deity, multiple deities, a hierarchy of deities or even a product of Simulation Theory. (No, I don't believe in Simulation Theory though I do believe it could be possible.)
4. The "god" of human worship is meant to provide meaning, wholeness and completeness at some point in history, whether in our time on earth or in some future manner such as afterlife, heaven and/or a revamped earthly kingdom.
5. Because of mankind's inability to comprehend objects/beings/science, much less understand anything that exists outside of time and space, we rely on whatever influences we believe most logical to our relative opinion. That logic could be through a holy book. Could be through other people. Could be through unexplained circumstances relative to each believer. Could be through tragedies or victories. Could be through Intelligent Design (which I do believe in). etc. These things lead to an individual's projection of what God is, how God acts, how God affects or communicates.
6. When people worship God, we (myself included) worship our relative projection of what God really is. There is no other way we can worship outside our own bias.
7. The worship of God without it being a god of personal projection is impossible.
8. The worship of projection is idolatry. Hence, the worship of any god can only be the practice if idolatry.

Yes, my position IS a contradiction because nothing can be at one with itself at all times. The fact that I even suggest something exists beyond time/space violates the very same premise that we can't know about anything existing outside of time/space. Even using the biblical ideology of idolatry as a premise for my argument is also a contradiction because it would suggest God is using the Bible as (at the very least) a lawbook or guide of some kind.

Regardless, here I stand at this given moment in time, accepting the living contradiction that is me.

Be blessed. :)
As I’ve said before, you invented your own religion and need your own god so you created him or her.
 
Possibly Smellin's most recent home church?.....





;)


Just messin' wit ya SC. 😁
Edited...

I just looked up the lyrics. Outside of artistic license and maybe a bit of loose theology, the lyrics to this song aren't bad at all, especially when you consider the source. I don't know what Depeche Mode was trying to convey but this is a song about prayer. I'd go so far as to rate it a couple notches above Norman Greenbaum's Spirit in the Sky.

Interesting bio on lead singer, Dave Grahan.

(Now don't go out buying Depeche Mode albums to enhance your worship experience)
 
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Edited...

I just looked up the lyrics. Outside of artistic license and maybe a bit of loose theology, the lyrics to this song aren't bad at all, especially when you consider the source. I don't know what Depeche Mode was trying to convey but this is a song about prayer. I'd go so far as to rate it a couple notches above Norman Greenbaum's Spirit in the Sky.

(Now don't go out buying Depeche Mode albums to enhance your worship experience)

According to songwriter (of DM)Martin Gore:

It's a song about being a Jesus for somebody else, someone to give you hope and care. It's about how Elvis Presley was her man and her mentor and how often that happens in love relationships; how everybody's heart is like a god in some way, and that's not a very balanced view of someone, is it?

I thought of the song after my earlier statement in this thread about everybody worships somebody or something. And as an FYI I don’t recommend anyone watch the original video to the song, as it has allusion to a brothel.

On a personal note, I could not stand the techno-pop of the mid 80s and Depeche Mode epitomize that for me.
 
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On a personal note, I could not stand the techno-pop of the mid 80s and Depeche Mode epitomize that for me.
Agreed. However, with the guitar and catchy rhythm, Personal Jesus is a toe tapper for me. Again, I'm not expecting to see this tune on our worship song list at church.
 
Agreed. However, with the guitar and catchy rhythm, Personal Jesus is a toe tapper for me. Again, I'm not expecting to see this tune on our worship song list at church.

Yeah, it comes close to reeling me in, but.I.must.resist 😁


Here’s another on Smellin’s favorites playlist…


 
As I’ve said before, you invented your own religion and need your own god so you created him or her.
Exactly what I admitted to in my original post. Just like everybody else including you. You may adopt a more establish theology but it is yours nonetheless.

We ALL create our personal projections of the Divine. We ALL are arbiters of our own "religious" truth.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? Or do you have too much to lose by honestly facing this possibility?
 
So, you're a Deist now?

God most certainly is transcendent existing outside of the realm of space and time. He is eternally existent, uncreated, and self-sufficient. You can read this all in the theology proper section of the systematic theology of your choosing so I will not drone on about stuff you can or should have looked up and read for yourself. I am guessing that HAC probably was not too strong in their study of systematic theology except for the parts that say you ought to be out "Soul-Winning" right?

God is not only transcendent but is at the same time Immanent with his creation calling all the stars and telling them by name (Psa 147:4), knows the affairs of the least of his creation and the number of hairs on your head (Mt 10:29-31). There is nothing hid from God that he does not know that shall not be brought to light on the day of judgment (Heb 4:13).

But the one smoking gun is found in Romans 1:20 - For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I do not have to say anything to prove this is the word of God, You know it to be true, EVERYONE knows it to be true including anyone who has never read Romans 1:20 in their life!


You give mankind far too much credit! The "god" of human worship is a god concocted up by his vain imagination and it has absolutely nothing to do with anyone sincerely searching out who is the "One True God!

Romans 1:21-23 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.​

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.​

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.​

An "Honest Skeptic" is an oxymoron! They are searching for everything else BESIDES the truth!

God works with the limitations of our understanding using anthropomorphisms such as "The Eyes of the Lord," and "his hand is stretched out still" even though God is Spirit without parts or complexity. God commanded "No Graven Images" because of the impossibility to come up with a visible image of an invisible God!

As stated, every person KNOWS of the true and living God and that he is to be worshipped.

You are no different from anyone else who has stepped away from "Faith!" I have seen it far too many times now and it is usually a gradual slip into apostacy! It usually starts with questioning of the inspiration, authority and sufficiency of the scriptures! If they can cast doubt upon the Word of God, everything else will come crashing down around them!

KJVOs may have a flawed view of inspiration and preservation of God's word but at least THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE A BIBLE! The problem is you let someone take your Bible from you and without it, you are unable to become wise unto salvation!

You really need to ask yourself why is there a book that was written over the course of 1500 years by over 40 different authors of differing walks of on three continents - Europe, Asia, Africa, written in three languages - Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic would be so unified in PORTRAYING ALL OF MANKIND IN SUCH AN UNFLATTERING LIGHT?

If the Bible were simply written by man according to man's wisdom, don't you think he would speak more highly of himself? Do we not see such everywhere else ASIDE FROM the Judeo-Christian Scriptures and in every other religion aside from Christianity and Historic Judaism?
Nice piecemealing of scriptures based on your idea of Systematic Theology.

I want nothing to do with that hegemonic hermeneutic as it is the basis of dominion ideology and supremacist at its core. It emerged from Slaveholders' religion: Euro-Ameri-centric in an effort to colonize other cultures into White Christian religion.

I get more out of Liberation Theology, Radical Theology and Queer Theology than I do out of Systematic Theology. At least they (the theologies themselves, not people) generally side with the oppressed rather than with the oppressors and the wealthy.

But hey, if Dominion Theology is your cup of tea, who am I to suggest you don't have the right to believe it? I really don't care until it starts oppressing those who are already marginalized.

Carry on.
 
Exactly what I admitted to in my original post. Just like everybody else including you. You may adopt a more establish theology but it is yours nonetheless.

We ALL create our personal projections of the Divine. We ALL are arbiters of our own "religious" truth.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? Or do you have too much to lose by honestly facing this possibility?
I do understand this…
Sadly, Hyles did a number on you.
 

I had no intent to insult you. Disagreeing is not in and of itself insulting.


As far as the remainder of your arguments, you believe all humans are making up their own religion so I’m not seeing how such relativist thinking gives you any moral/Philosophical/ethical/religious high ground and why you’re still here judging our theology because in your own version of a self-contradictory liberal “theobros” attitude, you presuppose you are right and we are wrong.
 
For those who want to know, f the flying spaghetti monster does not come al dente, I’m not on board. :D
 
Exactly what I admitted to in my original post. Just like everybody else including you. You may adopt a more establish theology but it is yours nonetheless.

We ALL create our personal projections of the Divine. We ALL are arbiters of our own "religious" truth.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? Or do you have too much to lose by honestly facing this possibility?
I know you attended a Christian college, but did you attend any secular college? Did you attend any sort of public education ever?
 
I do understand this…
Sadly, Hyles did a number on you.
C'mon, Tarheel! Be real.

I will cut you a break. You might be channeling your inner Jean Meslier and will leave a memoir with what you really know you can't be certain of. ;)
 
As far as the remainder of your arguments, you believe all humans are making up their own religion so I’m not seeing how such relativist thinking gives you any moral/Philosophical/ethical/religious high ground and why you’re still here judging our theology because in your own version of a self-contradictory liberal “theobros” attitude, you presuppose you are right and we are wrong.
Exactly the sense I got of what he said when I read this line:

But hey, if Dominion Theology is your cup of tea, who am I to suggest you don't have the right to believe it? I really don't care until it starts oppressing those who are already marginalized.
 
I had no intent to insult you. Disagreeing is not in and of itself insulting.


As far as the remainder of your arguments, you believe all humans are making up their own religion so I’m not seeing how such relativist thinking gives you any moral/Philosophical/ethical/religious high ground and why you’re still here judging our theology because in your own version of a self-contradictory liberal “theobros” attitude, you presuppose you are right and we are wrong.
You didn't insult me.

FYI, differences and disagreements DO matter and are needed. For example, we can't have democracy without differences and disagreements, vocal ones at that.

That meme was just flung out there for a couple of folks who I'm sure know who they are. I never considered you one of those folks that was trying to insult me. :)
 
C'mon, Tarheel! Be real.

I will cut you a break. You might be channeling your inner Jean Meslier and will leave a memoir with what you really know you can't be certain of. ;)
Helen Keller could have seen that.
I find it ironic that Hyles still controls your life.
 
Edited...

I just looked up the lyrics. Outside of artistic license and maybe a bit of loose theology, the lyrics to this song aren't bad at all, especially when you consider the source. I don't know what Depeche Mode was trying to convey but this is a song about prayer. I'd go so far as to rate it a couple notches above Norman Greenbaum's Spirit in the Sky.

Interesting bio on lead singer, Dave Grahan.

(Now don't go out buying Depeche Mode albums to enhance your worship experience)
The song comes across as mocking to me. Almost as if they are ridiculing the "Cheap Grace" that so many have turned the Gospel into.
 
I want nothing to do with that hegemonic hermeneutic as it is the basis of dominion ideology and supremacist at its core. It emerged from Slaveholders' religion: Euro-Ameri-centric in an effort to colonize other cultures into White Christian religion.
Slaveholders like John Newton and William Wilberforce?
 
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