Why Independant Fundamental Baptist are Stupid

[Darkwing Duck]

...you can't stay away from it.... Its hilarious....

All you have done is deflect when you don't have an answer. You toss out red herrings like they're on sale at Piggly Wiggly. You have no substance. You have no logic. You have no knowledge of what it really means to be a Baptist. All you have is a burr under your saddle and you got thrown off once or twice and now you're here trying to convince all of us that you're an expert on horses.

I, for one, will enable you no longer. I encourage all my stupid brothers and sisters to do the same.

You never dealt with the 3 points I made in the OP. Where are the red herrings in the OP?

They are all bad, but point 1 is the worst.
Everyone who preaches on sin is a sinner. This is not specific to only IFB preachers.

 

[christundivided]

...you can't stay away from it.... Its hilarious....

All you have done is deflect when you don't have an answer. You toss out red herrings like they're on sale at Piggly Wiggly. You have no substance. You have no logic. You have no knowledge of what it really means to be a Baptist. All you have is a burr under your saddle and you got thrown off once or twice and now you're here trying to convince all of us that you're an expert on horses.

I, for one, will enable you no longer. I encourage all my stupid brothers and sisters to do the same.

You never dealt with the 3 points I made in the OP. Where are the red herrings in the OP?

They are all bad, but point 1 is the worst.
Everyone who preaches on sin is a sinner. This is not specific to only IFB preachers.

Did Paul live what he preached? Did he?

For your information, I didn't list IFBs as having the problem to exclude everyone else. I listed them to focus on them. Must like Jesus talked of the Pharisees even the though the Sadducces acted much in the same way.

Guilt is universal but when an IFB preachers demands adherence to the various laws of the OT.... he is just witnessing to the fact... He, himself, is guilt. Hence the reference I posted in Romans. The name of God was blasphemed among the Gentiles due the hypocrisy of the Jewish nation. In like manner, the same can be said of IFBdum.

Do you understand now?

 

[christundivided]

So you've never seen the huge portraits of the pastor hanging in the average IFB church? You've got to be kidding me. I take it you don't have a problem with LYING

I take it you don't have a problem with being a false accuser of the brethren.  You not only apparently know my intelligence level, but also know exactly what I have or have not seen?  There is not a huge portrait of the pastor, who is me, in my church.  Nor was there one in the IFB church I grew up in, though that pastor was pretty self-important.  Nor have I seen one in most of the churches I have ever been in.  I did pass by First Baptist of Hammond one time and see the huge mural on the side of the building.  I thought it was over the top.  You show your absolute ignorance of most independent, fundamental Baptist churches that I have been in.  That is the problem with statements that are generalized like yours.  I know of a few independent Baptist churches that have drums, several that have ladies wearing pants in the service, some that have praise and worship music, and even a few that do not use the KJV.  I do not agree with all of them, but they are all considered independent Baptist.  That is why we are independent.

I never used the term all..... Please provide the evidence? Feel free to quote me.

The use of the term "independent" has no root in the anything "baptist". It has it roots in congregationalism...... which isn't a "baptist" concept.

Its funny how you speak of "drums" and "pants on women" as if its a distinguishing difference among IFBs...... You people are so petty...... You've been blind so long, that you can't see your hand in front of your face.

 

[christundivided]

RE-POST FOR THE COWARD

This isn't a formal debate. I have offered to formally debate several of you and you're all cowards.

Let me escalate this a bit by being blunt and plain - "christundivided" you are a liar.

You have dissected every reply of mine with twists of anti-logic and inane emotional ramblings that scream "I need help!".

However, you have deliberately ignored my response saying that I would be more than willing to debate you on this subject.

With Admin moderating, I will tear your false premise to shreds in less time than it takes to read an average day's worth of the tripe and trash you post with cowardly anonymity.

And, to make it interesting, I'll add this:

Whoever is deemed the loser of the debate by the judge (or judges) will have to PERMANENTLY leave the FFF and never return.

Well, what do you say? Are you up to it you lying coward?

I apologize for missing this post and another. I could of swore I saw where you told Alayman you'd reconsidered.

I'll be glad to accept your terms if we can agree on the exact subject and methodology of the debate.

1. I propose the judges to be T-Bone, Tomato, and FSSL. Two of these three judges are Baptist preachers. Albeit..... Not IFB. I'm pretty sure FSSL has a back ground in IFBdom. Aleshanee would be a fair alternate or a first pick. That is..... if they will agree.

2. The debate should follow the following format.

Proposition, Preparation of Positions, Statements and Rebuttals, Summaries, and Voting.

I'll let the judges define the amount of the "rebuttals" to be allowed.

3. The subject should be, "The value of being a Independent Fundamental Baptist".

I'll await your response.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Let Aleshanee be a judge if she wants. Do you want to, Aleshanee?

May I suggest that Green Beret have a part in selecting the judges? Perhaps do it like a jury selection. Both sides have to agree on the judges. I couldn't help but notice that CU's proposed picks have a history of giving him a lot of positive reputation. It is pretty easy to win the game if you bring your own referees.

 

[subllibrm]

Mission walls?

We have a missionary board. You know the kind where there is a picture of the family with a length of yarn and push pin in a map showing where they are serving. Visual aid. Nothing more. Nothing less.

There is also a spot where their prayer letters are posted.

Heavens to mergatroid! Is there no end to our man worship?!?!?  :

 

[christundivided]

Mission walls?

We have a missionary board. You know the kind where there is a picture of the family with a length of yarn and push pin in a map showing where they are serving. Visual aid. Nothing more. Nothing less.

There is also a spot where their prayer letters are posted.

Heavens to mergatroid! Is there no end to our man worship?!?!?  :

Sure.... Sure....

Its interesting that you would choose to only "snip" a certain portion of what I wrote.

Do you also have a board with pictures of your local "prayer warriors"? Or maybe of your local "widows indeed"? How about a "member" of the month board?

I think its rather obvious.... that certain people within local IFB churches get special attention.... While other, equally important people, receive nothing.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Don't we debate this stuff every day here?

 

[kaba]

Mission walls?

We have a missionary board. You know the kind where there is a picture of the family with a length of yarn and push pin in a map showing where they are serving. Visual aid. Nothing more. Nothing less.

There is also a spot where their prayer letters are posted.

Heavens to mergatroid! Is there no end to our man worship?!?!?  :

We have a mission wall. It has current letters from all our missionaries letting us know how their work is doing. I find it very informative. No man worship! Just letting us know how are dollars are at work.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Don't we debate this stuff every day here?

It is not really debate. Not when your arguments consist of statements like "I don't believe you," and, "I'm certain that you weren't paying attention." You see, when anonymous posters argue here on the forum, they can be anything they want to be. They can have any past they chose to have. They can say they've met whomever they want to meet. They can rack up a list of accomplishments that would impress Joan Rivers!

The problem is, nothing is verifiable. You can claim to have met every "icon" in the IFB movement and there is no way to prove you wrong. You can claim to have these same "icons" shout "amen!" while you're preaching. There is no way to verify that. You can claim to have visited every IFB church in North America and found there to be a portrait of the pastor hanging on the wall of most of them. There is no way to refute that. Unless, of course, you want to resort to the "I don't believe you" or "I'm certain you weren't paying attention" defense. If we throw out unverifiable statements, what do you have left? 

So, a debate between anonymous posters is nothing more than a waste of time. It's the old "My dad can beat up your dad" routine. That's easy to say because the two dads will never meet.     

 

[subllibrm]

Mission walls?

We have a missionary board. You know the kind where there is a picture of the family with a length of yarn and push pin in a map showing where they are serving. Visual aid. Nothing more. Nothing less.

There is also a spot where their prayer letters are posted.

Heavens to mergatroid! Is there no end to our man worship?!?!?  :

Sure.... Sure....

Its interesting that you would choose to only "snip" a certain portion of what I wrote.

Do you also have a board with pictures of your local "prayer warriors"? Or maybe of your local "widows indeed"? How about a "member" of the month board?

I think its rather obvious.... that certain people within local IFB churches get special attention.... While other, equally important people, receive nothing.

I snipped those because we don't have anything like that. No pastors current or past. Just missionaries and where they are on the field.

And since I am not IFB your argument fails at the most basic level.

 

[christundivided]

Mission walls?

We have a missionary board. You know the kind where there is a picture of the family with a length of yarn and push pin in a map showing where they are serving. Visual aid. Nothing more. Nothing less.

There is also a spot where their prayer letters are posted.

Heavens to mergatroid! Is there no end to our man worship?!?!?  :

Sure.... Sure....

Its interesting that you would choose to only "snip" a certain portion of what I wrote.

Do you also have a board with pictures of your local "prayer warriors"? Or maybe of your local "widows indeed"? How about a "member" of the month board?

I think its rather obvious.... that certain people within local IFB churches get special attention.... While other, equally important people, receive nothing.

I snipped those because we don't have anything like that. No pastors current or past. Just missionaries and where they are on the field.

And since I am not IFB your argument fails at the most basic level.

Forget the IFB for now. Do you equally heap praise on others?

 

[16KJV11]

Mission walls?

We have a missionary board. You know the kind where there is a picture of the family with a length of yarn and push pin in a map showing where they are serving. Visual aid. Nothing more. Nothing less.

There is also a spot where their prayer letters are posted.

Heavens to mergatroid! Is there no end to our man worship?!?!?  :

Sure.... Sure....

Its interesting that you would choose to only "snip" a certain portion of what I wrote.

Do you also have a board with pictures of your local "prayer warriors"? Or maybe of your local "widows indeed"? How about a "member" of the month board?

I think its rather obvious.... that certain people within local IFB churches get special attention.... While other, equally important people, receive nothing.

I snipped those because we don't have anything like that. No pastors current or past. Just missionaries and where they are on the field.

And since I am not IFB your argument fails at the most basic level.

Forget the IFB for now. Do you equally heap praise on others?

I do...I thank God when lay men rise up and where the burdens. And I let our congregation know quite often.

 

[.tim]

Don't we debate this stuff every day here?

This is a debate?

Guess my 2 year old and 5 year old debate as well ....

 

[christundivided]

Don't we debate this stuff every day here?

This is a debate?

Guess my 2 year old and 5 year old debate as well ....

Well..... stop acting like your 2 and 5 year old....

 

[Green Beret]

I apologize for missing this post and another. I could of swore I saw where you told Alayman you'd reconsidered.

I'll be glad to accept your terms if we can agree on the exact subject and methodology of the debate.

1. I propose the judges to be T-Bone, Tomato, and FSSL. Two of these three judges are Baptist preachers. Albeit..... Not IFB. I'm pretty sure FSSL has a back ground in IFBdom. Aleshanee would be a fair alternate or a first pick. That is..... if they will agree.

2. The debate should follow the following format.

Proposition, Preparation of Positions, Statements and Rebuttals, Summaries, and Voting.

I'll let the judges define the amount of the "rebuttals" to be allowed.

3. The subject should be, "The value of being a Independent Fundamental Baptist".

I'll await your response.

Apology accepted. It certainly took you long enough to find your courage.

First, since you challenged with the following:

I tell you what. I'll be glad to have a dedicated debate concerning this subject. The moderator can remove any language you find offensive and I will not say a thing.

You up for it?

Therefore, the subject will be "Why Independant Fundamental Baptists are Stupid" (Using your misspelling for fun and emphasis)

Second, while you are not too far off in your proposed format, I prefer the clarity of what the Admin has already outlined:

Here is how you can proceed:

1) Obviously find an opponent and decide on the parameters of what you want to discuss and how to identify each other's positions.
2) Send a PM to me and I will set up a thread.
3) Each poster is to write a brief explanation of their position. When you have written your position statement, let your opponent know and try to post them in the same time frame.
4) Decide who wants to go first with a rebuttal.

Here is the format...

1) Introductory statement by each participant.
2) Up to 5 reply posts by each poster. This will keep the discussion from dragging on and on.
3) A final summary post by each participant.
4) A poll after the debate is finished.
5) Open the thread up to everyone.

Third, I'll go along with what the Admin and others have suggested about the judges but, since I do not wish to be an imposition on anyone's time or conscience, how about a list where any three can serve if they are willing. Based on that premise, my list would be:

Preferred- (perhaps friendly to my position but very objective and balanced)
Ransom
Matthew Ward
Citadel of Truth

Alternates - (perhaps too friendly to my position [or too friendly to me]. However, they can be objective) 
Aleshanee
ALAYMAN
Tarheel Baptist
Darkwing Duck
subllibrm

Finally, the consequences for losing. I am still more than comfortable with my original suggestion that the loser be banished forever. However, to the judges, that might be like the Internet version of the death sentence. The dunce cap/loss of greenies would be acceptable if necessary.

 

[christundivided]

Apology accepted. It certainly took you long enough to find your courage.

I explained myself. It had nothing to do with a lack of courage.

Therefore, the subject will be "Why Independant Fundamental Baptists are Stupid" (Using your misspelling for fun and emphasis)

Funny. It was actually using a spelling I found on facebook....

https://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Life-Independant-Baptist-Church/136182043097377

Have you been there on your many travels?

You're the one finding value in being a Independent Baptist. Of course I'll being taking the opposing view. If it will make you happy.... then I'll throw a few "stupids" in the mix.

Second, while you are not too far off in your proposed format, I prefer the clarity of what the Admin has already outlined:

The list I present is a standard format used in formal debates. I will entertain limits to word counts and rebuttals.... but I have no desire to change the standard format.

Preferred- (perhaps friendly to my position but very objective and balanced)
Ransom
Matthew Ward
Citadel of Truth

I respect Ransom but he hates my guts. I will accept Matthew Ward. I know nothing of Citadel.

Alternates - (perhaps too friendly to my position [or too friendly to me]. However, they can be objective) 
Aleshanee
ALAYMAN
Tarheel Baptist
Darkwing Duck
subllibrm

I'll accept Aleshanee but none of the rest. If it must be one of the remaining list. I will accept TB.

Finally, the consequences for losing. I am still more than comfortable with my original suggestion that the loser be banished forever. However, to the judges, that might be like the Internet version of the death sentence. The dunce cap/loss of greenies would be acceptable if necessary.

I don't think anyone should be banned. Not that I'm really concerned about losing. I am all for the free expression of ideals. Lets just do it for the sake of argument. If necessary, I'll accept the "dunce" cap.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Preferred- (perhaps friendly to my position but very objective and balanced)
Ransom
Matthew Ward
Citadel of Truth

Thank you for your confidence, Brother; but, while I do believe I can be objective on any topic of debate, I don't think I can be objective to the character of your opponent. He has proven himself to be dishonest, unethical, and very prone to exaggeration. He has zero credibility with me. I do not trust him as far as I could throw a piano.

While he doubtless couldn't care less about my opinion of him, I really don't think that I would be a good judge on this debate.  I don't expect anything but more of the same from him. He has shown his true colors time and again.

I would suggest letting the forum members as a whole decide the winner. Perhaps limit the voting to Hero members or at the least, Full members. At the conclusion of the debate, simply close the thread and create a poll for a predetermined amount of time.

 

[rsc2a]

As someone who is against a significant amount of what the IFB represents, I thought I'd mention that CU is completely out of line here.

But I'm sure that's just my preference for the IFB speaking.

 

[Green Beret]

I explained myself. It had nothing to do with a lack of courage.

Riiiiiight. You're selling but I'm not buying.

Funny. It was actually using a spelling I found on facebook....

https://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Life-Independant-Baptist-Church/136182043097377

Have you been there on your many travels?

You're still selling, and very desperately at that, but I'm still not buying. That sounds like something my younger brother would make up to get out of trouble with mom.

My take is that you are either too ignorant to spell correctly or too proud to admit to a typo. Either way it speaks volumes about who you are.

You're the one finding value in being a Independent Baptist. Of course I'll being taking the opposing view. If it will make you happy.... then I'll throw a few "stupids" in the mix.

No, you will be formally defending your premise that Independent Fundamental Baptists are stupid. It has nothing to do with what I find valuable. It has everything to do with your "evidence" that IFBs are stupid. I, of course, will be taking the opposing view.

You are already trying to squirm yourself out of the "rhetorical beating" you are going to receive, aren't you. 

I respect Ransom but he hates my guts. I will accept Matthew Ward. I know nothing of Citadel.

I'll accept Aleshanee but none of the rest. If it must be one of the remaining list. I will accept TB.

Ransom and I aren't close by any means and have clashed on a few occasions over the years. I, like you, respect him since he is one of, if not the, most educated among us in regards to debate. He is more than capable of laying aside personal feelings to give an objective decision.

I do not know Mathew Ward or Citadel, either. However, Citadel just politely declined to participate (he does have a good suggestion that I will PM Admin about, though).

Aleshanee probably has the closest personal connection with me. She and her dad go way back with me on the old FFF. I'm comfortable that she would give an objective decision in the debate but I wish to be transparent about our friendship.

T-Bone and I go back to the old FFF as well. Since I started out my Army life as a MP, we share some common ground. He is more than acceptable.

RT I do not know except for the postings over the years but have no objections to.

Admin/FSSL is, of course, above reproach (shameless plug  ).