Your thoughts on tithing?

[Walt]

1) By spending money on unathorized projects, that pastor is effectively embezzling the church funds.  Had I been a deacon, I would have forgiven him, but insisted that he pay back the unauthorized expenditure.

2) I have long wondered if "faith-promise missions" was invented so that churches didn't have to give 10% of the general fund to missions.

I will also say that I have given at least 10%; if the Jews under the law could tithe, how much better should I be able to do?  There have been lean times and tough times -- giving has fluctuated between just getting to 10% and close to 30%, but that is nothing to do with me, but rather, the goodness of God.

Thanks for you input and a good observation.

At the time I served on the board I never thought the pastor's unautorized purchaes were "embezzling church funds." His purchases were for the church, and most of them served a purpose. Here's the most vivid memory. Our church had a bus and van ministry (3 buses and 2 vans). I can't remeber how many busses the pastor bought without discussion or authorization. He was limited to a certain dollar amount on purchases. He'd just buy them and we would find out about them on Sunday when we saw the buses in the parking lot.

Shortly after I wrote what I did, I wasn't sure that "embezzlement" was the proper term, but then again, reading the posted Wiki definition (thank you, TidesOfTruth), perhaps it was correct (by accident).

I don't believe a pastor should be handcuffed, but the church does is not "his" to do as he sees fit, and a major investment like a new bus should be considered by the church.

I know that small churches may need the pastor to keep the books/write checks at the beginning, but, in my opinion, he needs to pass that duty off as soon as he possibly can.  It's too easy to fall into doing wrong.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I haven't been called a legalist in decades.

You are correct.  Wrong word.  Pharisee would be more appropriate.

I can see you now standing with the Pharisee's, with the OT Law in your hand, correcting Jesus for picking corn on the Sabbath.

Guys like you are a dime-a-dozen.

Really?

Then you haven't read very much of what I've written here. In fact, I dealt specifically with "Jesus and the corn" several times before. In typical "IFB" form..... you assume way too many things about me.

For the record. Jesus is LORD of the Sabbeth. God can do as He pleases. Which.... is exactly what Jesus did on the day you reference. They broke the Law of God and were blameless because.... GOD HIMSELF... said so.

I suspect you're one of those IFBs that can't back up anything they say or teach. They just throw a few verses around to look smart about it..... .and then wilt when the true test comes. All I care about is the Truth. When you care about the Truth..... it doesn't matter what anyone else has to say about you.

Enjoy your reward. Its all you're getting.

 

[praise_yeshua]

1Ti 5:21  I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

While I agree with some what you're saying.....

You can't do something for one member of the church and not for others. You can justify it all you want. Its still an issue.

This is why so many things should stay OUT OF THE CHURCH.

Church isn't what's been made to be. I always wanted to know why the pastor gets all those appreciation days and the members generally get very little. I'd like inform a few people, its not easy being a Christian.... PERIOD. If you going to esteem someone, then esteem everyone.

Are you not making the same assumption that the others have in these stories? In effect you are saying that the gifts and aid were motivated by partiality.

If the Lord leads me to hand money to someone, am I not disobedient if I refuse? Am I to refuse because someone else may be offended by the act? Who are you or anyone else to question whether or not my act is wrongly motivated?

The above is in regards to individuals helping individuals.

Churches helping individuals can get sticky. Short term mission trips are a good example. Who gets help? Who decides what trip is "worthy" of church funds? I have seen that ruffle feathers more than once.

Didn't I say that too many things have become "centered" around the church? Giving is certainly one of those things. I don't care what someone does... .privately......at their discretion. What is done publicly.... is another story. That is why Matthew 6:3-4 is still in the Scriptures.

Give. Give silently. Give those in need and don't say one thing about it.

Problem SOLVED.

 

[Walt]

I haven't been called a legalist in decades.

You are correct.  Wrong word.  Pharisee would be more appropriate.

I can see you now standing with the Pharisee's, with the OT Law in your hand, correcting Jesus for picking corn on the Sabbath.

Guys like you are a dime-a-dozen.

Really?

Then you haven't read very much of what I've written here. In fact, I dealt specifically with "Jesus and the corn" several times before. In typical "IFB" form..... you assume way too many things about me.

For the record. Jesus is LORD of the Sabbeth. God can do as He pleases. Which.... is exactly what Jesus did on the day you reference. They broke the Law of God and were blameless because.... GOD HIMSELF... said so.

I disagree completely that Jesus broke the law of God; He fulfilled the law.  What he broke was the tradition that men had added to the law of God; what the rulers of the day expected everyone to follow, no the law of God itself.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I haven't been called a legalist in decades.

You are correct.  Wrong word.  Pharisee would be more appropriate.

I can see you now standing with the Pharisee's, with the OT Law in your hand, correcting Jesus for picking corn on the Sabbath.

Guys like you are a dime-a-dozen.

Really?

Then you haven't read very much of what I've written here. In fact, I dealt specifically with "Jesus and the corn" several times before. In typical "IFB" form..... you assume way too many things about me.

For the record. Jesus is LORD of the Sabbeth. God can do as He pleases. Which.... is exactly what Jesus did on the day you reference. They broke the Law of God and were blameless because.... GOD HIMSELF... said so.

I disagree completely that Jesus broke the law of God; He fulfilled the law.  What he broke was the tradition that men had added to the law of God; what the rulers of the day expected everyone to follow, no the law of God itself.

Jesus fulfilled the law.... in the fact that HE DIED. He received the judgement of the Law. God doesn't have to keep His own commandments. That is a man made tradition you hold. Not me.

The disciples broke the law. Jesus shared in their efforts. You can argue all you want about it. The Scriptures are clear. The Law judged those who even went out on the Sabbath to gather manna. Jesus even referenced where David broke the Law when he eat the bread that was only for the Priest. Jesus said David broke the law. Yet, was blameless. This was the direct comparison Jesus made to what the disciples and he had done. They were blameless even though they had broken the law like David had broken the law.

Argue with the Scriptures.

Interesting note. Harold Sightlier use to talk of how he whooped his son for bouncing a ball on the "Sabbath". Certainly, Jesus and the Disciples did more than "bounce" a ball on the Sabbath. The NUT didn't even know Sunday has never been the Sabbath.

 

[IFB X-Files]

LOL!  Perfect for this thread.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

92-year-old woman kicked out of church for not tithing

 

[IFB X-Files]

92-year-old woman kicked out of church for not tithing

Hey, man, I posted this days ago.  Keep up!

 

[prophet]

You can't do something for one member of the church and not for others. You can justify it all you want. Its still an issue.

Do you really believe what you write?  Do you mean that if one family needs food that the church has to provide food for everyone?  We had a family that had a need of a new window AC unit.  We got them one.  Do we have to buy every family a new window AC unit?  Is this what Paul is requiring?  I trow not. 

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Godly Christians understand these things.  Legalists never will.

Well, when you pull something out if context....
PY quoted a passage on dealing with elders.  The only possible meaning of that passage, is that no single elder is to be promoted above the rest.  In other words, that passage damns our current "pastor" church-king heresy.



Haklo