Abandon Ship!

[Vince Massi]

When and how do you get out of your church?

"When God tells you to," someone replies, but he can quote no Scripture to back that statement.

Although I'll be using the story of Paul's shipwreck from the Book of Acts as GUIDELINES, all comments, warnings, suggestions, etc., that will help readera are appreciated.

 

[Twisted]

Walking out the door is usually a first step.

 

[Ransom]

When and how do you get out of your church?

About 12:15-12:30 pm, depending on whether there were baptisms, communion, and whatnot; and generally by walking to a bus.

 

[HeDied4U]

When and how do you get out of your church?

Well, normally about 10:20am by walking  out the south side doors.

However, this morning, I was sick (walking pneumonia, ugh!!) so I watched my church service online. When the service was over, I just closed the lid of my laptop, got up from my desk and went to bed.

 

[Vince Massi]

Man, three jokes, but no hatred. Good Heavens, we might actually have an intelligent discussion here.

Remember that this literally true story ILLUSTRATES the proper method of abandoning a church, but it is not a list of doctrines.

1) You're going the wrong way.  Acts 27:1  "And when it was decided that we should sail to Italy, they delivered Paul and some other prisoners to one named Julius, a centurion of the Augustan Regiment." The nation of Italy did not yet exist; they were sailing to the Italian peninsula, where Rome was located. They were sailing away from Jerusalem, the city of the Great King, and heading towards the city God calls "The great whore."

 

[Ransom]

Remember that this literally true story ILLUSTRATES the proper method of abandoning a church.

Who says?

This literally true story is literally about Paul being taken in custody to Rome. As the rest of Acts shows, he was not abandoning a church in any way, shape, or form.

In order for you to allegorize this passage, it is necessary for you to first justify your allegory. You have not done so, so your post is merely an empty assertion without warrant.

 

[Ransom]

Also, Paul wasn't going the wrong way. His arrest and appeal to Caesar are what providentially out him on the journey to Rome so that he could fulfill the work that the Lord Jesus had for him there: "The following night the Lord stood by him and said, 'Take courage, for as you have testified to the facts about me in Jerusalem, so you must testify also in Rome'" (Acts 23:11).

Paul was not abandoning a church. He was building one.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Also, Paul wasn't going the wrong way. His arrest and appeal to Caesar are what providentially out him on the journey to Rome so that he could fulfill the work that the Lord Jesus had for him there: "The following night the Lord stood by him and said, 'Take courage, for as you have testified to the facts about me in Jerusalem, so you must testify also in Rome'" (Acts 23:11).

Paul was not abandoning a church. He was building one.

Yeah, as it turned out in the end, the church pretty much abandoned him.

 

[Ransom]

Yeah, as it turned out in the end, the church pretty much abandoned him.

No, that was just you.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Also, Paul wasn't going the wrong way. His arrest and appeal to Caesar are what providentially out him on the journey to Rome so that he could fulfill the work that the Lord Jesus had for him there: "The following night the Lord stood by him and said, 'Take courage, for as you have testified to the facts about me in Jerusalem, so you must testify also in Rome'" (Acts 23:11).

Paul was not abandoning a church. He was building one.

Yeah, as it turned out in the end, the church pretty much abandoned him.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Yeah, as it turned out in the end, the church pretty much abandoned him.

No, that was just you.

Yeah, I guess he provided an alt-fact when he said, "You are aware of the fact that all who are in Asia (Asia Minor - of which the Church of Ephesus was a part - Rev. 1:4) turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes."

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Yeah, as it turned out in the end, the church pretty much abandoned him.

No, that was just you.

Yeah, I guess he provided an alt-fact when he said, "You are aware of the fact that all who are in Asia (Asia Minor - of which the Church of Ephesus was a part - Rev. 1:4) turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes."

You really is a bibul skolar Elmer!

 

[Ransom]

Yeah, I guess he provided an alt-fact when he said, "You are aware of the fact that all who are in Asia (Asia Minor - of which the Church of Ephesus was a part - Rev. 1:4) turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes."

That's a highly relevant fact, in a "not" sort of way.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Yeah, I guess he provided an alt-fact when he said, "You are aware of the fact that all who are in Asia (Asia Minor - of which the Church of Ephesus was a part - Rev. 1:4) turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes."

That's a highly relevant fact, in a "not" sort of way.

So glad you see Paul isn't as reliable as folks make him out to be.

 

[Ransom]

So glad you see Paul isn't as reliable as folks make him out to be.

Not even close to what I believe. Why are you lying?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

So glad you see Paul isn't as reliable as folks make him out to be.

Not even close to what I believe. Why are you lying?

Tongue-in-cheek, my friend.

 

[Vince Massi]

I'm always glad to see courteous disagreement, but I was surprised at the statement that Paul founded the church at Rome. History tells us that he did not, and Acts tells us that they met Christians close to Rome while they were on their way there.

Acts tells us that God sent prophets to warn Paul not to go to Jerusalem,  and he was out of God's will when he did.  He lost years in prison before being sent to Rome, where he had a limited ministry under house arrest.

God did not abandon Paul. But the fact that God blesses us despite our disobedience does not prove that He is pleased with our sins.

 

[Ransom]

I'm always glad to see courteous disagreement, but I was surprised at the statement that Paul founded the church at Rome.

No one said Paul founded the church at Rome, and the remainder of your post is similarly delusional.

 

[Vince Massi]

Another factor in abandoning ship is the leadership.

Julius the centurion was a kind, decent man, who respected Paul. Acts does not say whether or not he was saved, but it tells us that he believed the captain of the ship rather than Paul, and he got the people under him in a lot of trouble as a result. We don?t know if any sailors or passengers abandoned ship after Paul's warning, but they should have.

If your leader is not out-and-out on God's side, you have the wrong leader. Despite one mistake, Julius really was a competent man, and this will turn up later in the story. But for now, a leader who is not clearly on God?s side, despite his competence, is the wrong leader.

 

[Ransom]

The assertions Vince has made without basis in fact or exegesis continue to pile up. I'm just going to start listing them until he actually deals with them.


[list type=decimal]
[*]Who says Acts 27:1ff instructs us about correct way to leave a church? Nothing in the text suggests it.
[*]Allegory requires an external "key," some shared knowledge, assumptions, etc., for its interpretation. What is the key for your allegory, and how is your reading of this passage justified?
[*]Why do you say Paul was going the "wrong way" when Paul was, in fact, doing exactly what Jesus instructed him to do in a vision?
[*]You accused others of claiming Paul founded the church at Rome. Where has anyone said this?
[*]What makes Julius the centurion a picture of church leadership, instead of Paul, a literal church leader? Again, you need to show your work and justify your interpretation.
[/list]