Arrogant and Impolite - This is Why they Hate Us

[cpizzle]

I was recently in a Facebook "discussion" with a fellow preacher on the sinfulness of alcohol.  I agreed that the Bible is very critical of drinking and has multiple warnings of its dangers.  I could not agree that there is a clear, universal condemnation of any and all alcohol consumption in scripture.  I was polite, thoughtful, and emphasized our areas of agreement.  I was shocked to see how dismissive, arrogant, and judgmental his replies were.  I am a believer in "the old time religion" and a "King James Bible Believer", but to him, I was a liberal who needed to be humiliated.

This my friends....is why they hate us

The exchange is posted below:

Him: Alcohol is condemned in the Bible. Today many are saying that while the Bible condemns drunkenness, it never condemns the moderate use of alcohol. They say that good Christians can be biblically free to enjoy a glass of wine, or a beer on the weekends. Well, does the Bible condemn beverage alcohol? Of course it does. It condemns it both directly and indirectly.

Me: I wish it was that easy. A full prohibition of any and all alcohol consumption would truly help us preachers who know the evil effects of booze. Unfortunately, their is no clear universal condemnation of alcohol consumption in the Bible. Deut. 14:26 even refers to strong drink as a blessing from God. Obviously Jesus drank wine with some alcohol content because the Pharisees called him a glutton and drunkard for "eating and drinking." I certainly caution my people to abstain from all "adult beverages", but I can't categorically state is always a sin and still be true to scripture. It is stupid...and very dangerous to drink, but it might not always be sinful.

Him:  Uninformed on every count.
Deut 14:26 does NOT refer to alcohol.
So if someone falsely accuses you that means they're right? Say what?
I can.
It's a sin.
And I'm true to Scripture.
So before you come off with points that you haven't studied through thoroughly, get in the Book.

Me:  Strong drink in Deut 14:26 doesn't refer to alcohol? They called Jesus a drunkard for drinking grape juice? The disciples didn't drink fermented wine at the wedding feast? (I do believe the wine Jesus made was fresh and not soured because it tasted the best) Once again, we both want our people to stay far from alcohol, but I won't preach what I don't believe the Bible says. (We can discuss later the insulting way you said I don't know the Bible because of our differences in interpretation.)

Him: I chuckle when people make the points you made.
It's like people who say that baptism saves because of a verse they don't understand or haven't studied yet.
It's not a difference in interpretation.
It's a difference in studying.
I'm sorry that your lack of knowledge insults you. That's not my intent.
Truth is.

Me: I am wiling to admit my error if you can prove from the Bible that what I say is incorrect 

Him:  What exactly would you like me to prove wrong? Be specific. I'm not interested in going round and round.

Me:  What is "strong drink" in Deut 14:26? Was alcoholic wine served at the wedding feast?

Him: Just those 2?
I'd be happy to.
Christians who favor drinking seem to ignore plain Scriptures that speak directly against alcohol (Proverbs 20:1; 23:29-35; 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8; etc.), while glorying in Deuteronomy 14:26, an obscure verse that only mentions wine and strong drink in passing.

It may seem strange that God would forbid His Old Testament priests to drink while engaging in worship, yet tell the people they were welcome to drink during worship without regard to age or amount. It sounds strange because it is a contradiction, and because it never happened.

The word in Deuteronomy 14:26 translated "strong drink" or even "beer" by some translations, is the Hebrew word "shekar."

Many authorities theorize that shekar always means an alcoholic drink. But significant authorities disagree. They believe shekar, like the biblical words for wine, could refer either to an alcoholic, or a nonalcoholic drink, but made from fruit other than grapes.

"It is tolerably clear that the general words ?wine [yayin; oinos]? and ?strong drink [shekar]? do not necessarily imply fermented liquors, the former signifying only a production of the vine, the latter the produce of other fruits than the grape.? -Dr. Lyman Abbott, A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge,

Shekar - ?Sweet drink (what satiates or intoxicates).? -Dr. Robert Young, Young?s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, Eerdmans, 1970.

?Not only the word yayin, but also shekar can refer to grape juice as well as to wine (cf. Deuteronomy 29:6; Numbers 28:7; Exodus 29:40).? -Dr. Robert P. Teachout in his doctoral dissertation on The Use of Wine in the Old Testament, 1979, Dallas Theological Seminary.

It is also interesting that we get our English words sugar, saccharine, cider from the Hebrew word shekar. These words allude to a root meaning of sweet, rather than alcoholic. Also, cider can mean alcoholic, or nonalcoholic apple juice, just like the original word shekar.

Finally, in that day they could more easily make and preserve nonalcoholic wine and shekar, than the alcoholic kind. Nonalcoholic drinks were common in their day, just as they are in ours.

Me: My final reply (do feel free to rebut....this is your thread, I'm just hijacking it smile emoticon ) You claim the clear reading of several Bible verses must mean something different that what they say (strong drink could be non-alcoholic juice????). As I said earlier, I do not favor drinking. I abstain and I tell my congregation all the reasons why I think they should as well. The Bible says drinking is dangerous, can be easily abused, and can do lasting damage to the drinker. Still, it is very very likely that alcohol consumption was basic part of OT and NT life. They didn't always have pure drinking water and fruit juice begins to ferment immediately after it is pressed. We can always debate how much alcohol content was in the wine (or strong drink), but I am confident it had some percentage. I don't see where they distilled wine to make it more alcoholic as we do today. It was just part of their diet. Of course, we have plenty of safe options today, so alcohol consumption is basically obsolete, though still not always sinful. Our congregations should be spiritual enough to avoid alcohol because of the multiple warnings and the protection of their own testimonies. I just can't preach what I don't believe, no matter if I get the result I want. God bless, I enjoyed the discussion. Remember, where the Bible is clear - Unity. Where the Bible is unclear - Liberty. But in all things, Charity.

Him:  Basically, everything you just posted about alcohol is inaccurate.
That's my point. You simply don't know what you're talking about.
As a pastor, I am responsible to preach the whole counsel of God.
Everything I preach, I try to be as well versed as I possibly can.
I'm not into cliches and cool sayings when it comes to truth. I'm into truth.

I taught you about Deut 14:26 after you asked and admitted you'd be open to correction. You choose to simply dismiss it. That's sad.
If you want to be uneducated on the topic, thats completely your prerogative.
However don't come on here posting things that aren't true and expect me not to respond and reprove it.

Another Poster: Are you aware even in biblical times they were interestingly several ways to preserve grape/fruit juice to keep it from fermenting? So talking about "percentage" is erroneous. You remind me of my recent former pastor who uses Ecclesiates 10:19 and Psalm 104:15 as his excuse to imbibe. The bottom line is he drinks beverage alcohol is THIS IS WHAT HE AND HIS WIFE INTENDS TO DO ALL ALONG and seeking to assuage his conscience over it.

Me: I am certainly not looking for reasons to drink. I have always preached against liquor. For years I tried to find every way to make the Bible say it is always wrong, but I just can't come to that conclusion. It is dangerous, it is obsolete, it is unnecessary, it is abusive, it is annoying....but I still can't find a universal condemnation of all alcohol consumption in scripture and I can't preach what I don't believe the Bible says. My motive is not to promote drinking, it is to rightfully divide the word of truth. We may come to different conclusions on the sinfulness of alcohol, but we both agree the Bible paints a very negative picture and Christians should abstain for testimonies sake if for no other reason.

 

[Twisted]

Great post.

 

[subllibrm]

I am thankful that I do not like the taste of alcohol. Ergo, never been a problem for me personally.

 

[cpizzle]

I am thankful that I do not like the taste of alcohol. Ergo, never been a problem for me personally.

I have never tasted alcohol, but I must admit that I am tempted to try it (except beer, that stuff smells horrible.)  However, even though I may have the liberty to have a drink, I choose to totally abstain.  I know that it is not good for my testimony and that is reason enough.  However, I also know that if I allow myself a drink once in a while, I may enjoy it and could lead to a habit.  I am not worried about alcoholism, but I don't want to become a regular drinker.  Thus, I refuse to even have my first taste.

 

[subllibrm]

I am thankful that I do not like the taste of alcohol. Ergo, never been a problem for me personally.

I have never tasted alcohol, but I must admit that I am tempted to try it (except beer, that stuff smells horrible.)  However, even though I may have the liberty to have a drink, I choose to totally abstain.  I know that it is not good for my testimony and that is reason enough.  However, I also know that if I allow myself a drink once in a while, I may enjoy it and could lead to a habit.  I am not worried about alcoholism, but I don't want to become a regular drinker.  Thus, I refuse to even have my first taste.

I understand. I also know myself well enough that liking it would be a major issue so having tried it as an unbeliever I am thankful that it is not a temptation.

 

[subllibrm]

We just got back from a vacation with my wife's siblings. We had a great time catching up and going down memory lane.

My wife is the youngest of seven and six of them made the trip. Prior to her parents death her siblings would all attempt to attend all family events. Those who smoked or drank chose to abstain for mom and dad's sake. Since the death of the parents, they feel free to exercise their freedom to do both. Hence the missing brother.

So we went to a time share condo place and each couple had their own room. Each condo had two bedrooms and a kitchen/living area. We met for home cooked meals and the drinkers didn't drink and the smokers went outside when the urge hit them. When we ate out, they did order a beer for one of the meals. And during the week they occasionally had some wine in their own unit. The beer at the BBQ restaurant was the only "imbibing" I witnessed. The brother who didn't attend is the IFB dude and he didn't want their behavior to taint his testimony.

All that to ask a question. How is their behavior his problem? Eating and drinking with sinners didn't hurt Jesus' reputation so why would it hurt the missing brother?

 

[Twisted]

We just got back from a vacation with my wife's siblings. We had a great time catching up and going down memory lane.

My wife is the youngest of seven and six of them made the trip. Prior to her parents death her siblings would all attempt to attend all family events. Those who smoked or drank chose to abstain for mom and dad's sake. Since the death of the parents, they feel free to exercise their freedom to do both. Hence the missing brother.

So we went to a time share condo place and each couple had their own room. Each condo had two bedrooms and a kitchen/living area. We met for home cooked meals and the drinkers didn't drink and the smokers went outside when the urge hit them. When we ate out, they did order a beer for one of the meals. And during the week they occasionally had some wine in their own unit. The beer at the BBQ restaurant was the only "imbibing" I witnessed. The brother who didn't attend is the IFB dude and he didn't want their behavior to taint his testimony.

All that to ask a question. How is their behavior his problem? Eating and drinking with sinners didn't hurt Jesus' reputation so why would it hurt the missing brother?

Does the "IFB dude" dine anywhere that serves booze?  Or fly on airlines?

 

[subllibrm]

We just got back from a vacation with my wife's siblings. We had a great time catching up and going down memory lane.

My wife is the youngest of seven and six of them made the trip. Prior to her parents death her siblings would all attempt to attend all family events. Those who smoked or drank chose to abstain for mom and dad's sake. Since the death of the parents, they feel free to exercise their freedom to do both. Hence the missing brother.

So we went to a time share condo place and each couple had their own room. Each condo had two bedrooms and a kitchen/living area. We met for home cooked meals and the drinkers didn't drink and the smokers went outside when the urge hit them. When we ate out, they did order a beer for one of the meals. And during the week they occasionally had some wine in their own unit. The beer at the BBQ restaurant was the only "imbibing" I witnessed. The brother who didn't attend is the IFB dude and he didn't want their behavior to taint his testimony.

All that to ask a question. How is their behavior his problem? Eating and drinking with sinners didn't hurt Jesus' reputation so why would it hurt the missing brother?

Does the "IFB dude" dine anywhere that serves booze?  Or fly on airlines?

I assume so but can't say for sure. I do know that they shop at the mega grocery store that has a large liquor department.

 

[Twisted]

Does the "IFB dude" dine anywhere that serves booze?  Or fly on airlines?

I assume so but can't say for sure. I do know that they shop at the mega grocery store that has a large liquor department. [/quote]

I'm sure he avoids that isle as most of us do.  Appearances.

 

[Jubal Sackett]

But, but, but if the KJV is the only correct version of the Bible  doesn't say what it means and mean what it says right there in plain English that a 6th grader can understand? It does as long as it says what you need it to say.

Over my years on this earth I've noticed that almost all xers can never admit that something that they've been taught by he sainted masters is wrong. If they ever do admit that then it shatters the foundation. Then who knows what else that they have been taught mistakenly over the years. The next thing you know they'll be reading Mad Magazine and watching Dancing With the Stars and maybe even wearing shorts.  Fundamentalism is a religion of dominos. If on falls than the whole thing comes crashing down.

As  for the arrogance, that's part of the show. remember, you're dealing with one of the anointed ones. He is wise and you are an idiot because you differ with him. he is superior t all other forms of life and you are a peon.

Jubal Sackett

 

[cpizzle]

But, but, but if the KJV is the only correct version of the Bible  doesn't say what it means and mean what it says right there in plain English that a 6th grader can understand? It does as long as it says what you need it to say.
Jubal Sackett

I agree.  I do think that wine can be fermented or unfermented in scripture, but strong drink is always alcoholic.  Wine that makes the heart merry is alcoholic.  His exegesis is  basically, "if it says wine in a good way, unfermented.  Wine in a bad way, fermented."

 

[Bob H]

I was recently in a Facebook "discussion" with a fellow preacher on the sinfulness of alcohol.  I agreed that the Bible is very critical of drinking and has multiple warnings of its dangers.  I could not agree that there is a clear, universal condemnation of any and all alcohol consumption in scripture.  I was polite, thoughtful, and emphasized our areas of agreement.  I was shocked to see how dismissive, arrogant, and judgmental his replies were.  I am a believer in "the old time religion" and a "King James Bible Believer", but to him, I was a liberal who needed to be humiliated.

This my friends....is why they hate us

Who's they?

 

[subllibrm]

I was recently in a Facebook "discussion" with a fellow preacher on the sinfulness of alcohol.  I agreed that the Bible is very critical of drinking and has multiple warnings of its dangers.  I could not agree that there is a clear, universal condemnation of any and all alcohol consumption in scripture.  I was polite, thoughtful, and emphasized our areas of agreement.  I was shocked to see how dismissive, arrogant, and judgmental his replies were.  I am a believer in "the old time religion" and a "King James Bible Believer", but to him, I was a liberal who needed to be humiliated.

This my friends....is why they hate us

Who's they?

Them!  8)

 

[Bob H]

I was recently in a Facebook "discussion" with a fellow preacher on the sinfulness of alcohol.  I agreed that the Bible is very critical of drinking and has multiple warnings of its dangers.  I could not agree that there is a clear, universal condemnation of any and all alcohol consumption in scripture.  I was polite, thoughtful, and emphasized our areas of agreement.  I was shocked to see how dismissive, arrogant, and judgmental his replies were.  I am a believer in "the old time religion" and a "King James Bible Believer", but to him, I was a liberal who needed to be humiliated.

This my friends....is why they hate us

Who's they?

Them!  8)

Thanx....................











I was thinking it was the Cals. My bad

 

[bgwilkinson]

I was recently in a Facebook "discussion" with a fellow preacher on the sinfulness of alcohol.  I agreed that the Bible is very critical of drinking and has multiple warnings of its dangers.  I could not agree that there is a clear, universal condemnation of any and all alcohol consumption in scripture.  I was polite, thoughtful, and emphasized our areas of agreement.  I was shocked to see how dismissive, arrogant, and judgmental his replies were.  I am a believer in "the old time religion" and a "King James Bible Believer", but to him, I was a liberal who needed to be humiliated.

This my friends....is why they hate us

The exchange is posted below:

Him: Alcohol is condemned in the Bible. Today many are saying that while the Bible condemns drunkenness, it never condemns the moderate use of alcohol. They say that good Christians can be biblically free to enjoy a glass of wine, or a beer on the weekends. Well, does the Bible condemn beverage alcohol? Of course it does. It condemns it both directly and indirectly.

Me: I wish it was that easy. A full prohibition of any and all alcohol consumption would truly help us preachers who know the evil effects of booze. Unfortunately, their is no clear universal condemnation of alcohol consumption in the Bible. Deut. 14:26 even refers to strong drink as a blessing from God. Obviously Jesus drank wine with some alcohol content because the Pharisees called him a glutton and drunkard for "eating and drinking." I certainly caution my people to abstain from all "adult beverages", but I can't categorically state is always a sin and still be true to scripture. It is stupid...and very dangerous to drink, but it might not always be sinful.

Him:  Uninformed on every count.
Deut 14:26 does NOT refer to alcohol.
So if someone falsely accuses you that means they're right? Say what?
I can.
It's a sin.
And I'm true to Scripture.
So before you come off with points that you haven't studied through thoroughly, get in the Book.

Me:  Strong drink in Deut 14:26 doesn't refer to alcohol? They called Jesus a drunkard for drinking grape juice? The disciples didn't drink fermented wine at the wedding feast? (I do believe the wine Jesus made was fresh and not soured because it tasted the best) Once again, we both want our people to stay far from alcohol, but I won't preach what I don't believe the Bible says. (We can discuss later the insulting way you said I don't know the Bible because of our differences in interpretation.)

Him: I chuckle when people make the points you made.
It's like people who say that baptism saves because of a verse they don't understand or haven't studied yet.
It's not a difference in interpretation.
It's a difference in studying.
I'm sorry that your lack of knowledge insults you. That's not my intent.
Truth is.

Me: I am wiling to admit my error if you can prove from the Bible that what I say is incorrect 

Him:  What exactly would you like me to prove wrong? Be specific. I'm not interested in going round and round.

Me:  What is "strong drink" in Deut 14:26? Was alcoholic wine served at the wedding feast?

Him: Just those 2?
I'd be happy to.
Christians who favor drinking seem to ignore plain Scriptures that speak directly against alcohol (Proverbs 20:1; 23:29-35; 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8; etc.), while glorying in Deuteronomy 14:26, an obscure verse that only mentions wine and strong drink in passing.

It may seem strange that God would forbid His Old Testament priests to drink while engaging in worship, yet tell the people they were welcome to drink during worship without regard to age or amount. It sounds strange because it is a contradiction, and because it never happened.

The word in Deuteronomy 14:26 translated "strong drink" or even "beer" by some translations, is the Hebrew word "shekar."

Many authorities theorize that shekar always means an alcoholic drink. But significant authorities disagree. They believe shekar, like the biblical words for wine, could refer either to an alcoholic, or a nonalcoholic drink, but made from fruit other than grapes.

"It is tolerably clear that the general words ?wine [yayin; oinos]? and ?strong drink [shekar]? do not necessarily imply fermented liquors, the former signifying only a production of the vine, the latter the produce of other fruits than the grape.? -Dr. Lyman Abbott, A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge,

Shekar - ?Sweet drink (what satiates or intoxicates).? -Dr. Robert Young, Young?s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, Eerdmans, 1970.

?Not only the word yayin, but also shekar can refer to grape juice as well as to wine (cf. Deuteronomy 29:6; Numbers 28:7; Exodus 29:40).? -Dr. Robert P. Teachout in his doctoral dissertation on The Use of Wine in the Old Testament, 1979, Dallas Theological Seminary.

It is also interesting that we get our English words sugar, saccharine, cider from the Hebrew word shekar. These words allude to a root meaning of sweet, rather than alcoholic. Also, cider can mean alcoholic, or nonalcoholic apple juice, just like the original word shekar.

Finally, in that day they could more easily make and preserve nonalcoholic wine and shekar, than the alcoholic kind. Nonalcoholic drinks were common in their day, just as they are in ours.

Me: My final reply (do feel free to rebut....this is your thread, I'm just hijacking it smile emoticon ) You claim the clear reading of several Bible verses must mean something different that what they say (strong drink could be non-alcoholic juice????). As I said earlier, I do not favor drinking. I abstain and I tell my congregation all the reasons why I think they should as well. The Bible says drinking is dangerous, can be easily abused, and can do lasting damage to the drinker. Still, it is very very likely that alcohol consumption was basic part of OT and NT life. They didn't always have pure drinking water and fruit juice begins to ferment immediately after it is pressed. We can always debate how much alcohol content was in the wine (or strong drink), but I am confident it had some percentage. I don't see where they distilled wine to make it more alcoholic as we do today. It was just part of their diet. Of course, we have plenty of safe options today, so alcohol consumption is basically obsolete, though still not always sinful. Our congregations should be spiritual enough to avoid alcohol because of the multiple warnings and the protection of their own testimonies. I just can't preach what I don't believe, no matter if I get the result I want. God bless, I enjoyed the discussion. Remember, where the Bible is clear - Unity. Where the Bible is unclear - Liberty. But in all things, Charity.

Him:  Basically, everything you just posted about alcohol is inaccurate.
That's my point. You simply don't know what you're talking about.
As a pastor, I am responsible to preach the whole counsel of God.
Everything I preach, I try to be as well versed as I possibly can.
I'm not into cliches and cool sayings when it comes to truth. I'm into truth.

I taught you about Deut 14:26 after you asked and admitted you'd be open to correction. You choose to simply dismiss it. That's sad.
If you want to be uneducated on the topic, thats completely your prerogative.
However don't come on here posting things that aren't true and expect me not to respond and reprove it.

Another Poster: Are you aware even in biblical times they were interestingly several ways to preserve grape/fruit juice to keep it from fermenting? So talking about "percentage" is erroneous. You remind me of my recent former pastor who uses Ecclesiates 10:19 and Psalm 104:15 as his excuse to imbibe. The bottom line is he drinks beverage alcohol is THIS IS WHAT HE AND HIS WIFE INTENDS TO DO ALL ALONG and seeking to assuage his conscience over it.

Me: I am certainly not looking for reasons to drink. I have always preached against liquor. For years I tried to find every way to make the Bible say it is always wrong, but I just can't come to that conclusion. It is dangerous, it is obsolete, it is unnecessary, it is abusive, it is annoying....but I still can't find a universal condemnation of all alcohol consumption in scripture and I can't preach what I don't believe the Bible says. My motive is not to promote drinking, it is to rightfully divide the word of truth. We may come to different conclusions on the sinfulness of alcohol, but we both agree the Bible paints a very negative picture and Christians should abstain for testimonies sake if for no other reason.

This was an interesting discussion that represents that many pastors believe what they want to believe and then look up verses to support their bias.

One of my favorites is the pastor's license to drink wine found in Timothy as well as Titus.

1Ti 3:3  Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

Then there is the deacon's license to be given to wine, just not much wine.

1Ti 3:8  Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

You know this wine is fermented as it would not matter if one was given to unfermented grape juice.

Disclaimer. I am a lifelong teetotaler as was my mom and dad and all of my children and grandchildren.
I am not advocating drinking wine just honesty in biblical interpretation and keeping one's opinion as one's opinion. Don't say God says it.
I think this is one of those things that people call pastors on as being fakes and not honest using the bible. Even an unsaved person that reads the bible can figure out that its ok for pastors to drink wine.

IFBs typically seem to have a very weak grasp on biblical hermeneutics.

 

[sword]

We just got back from a vacation with my wife's siblings. We had a great time catching up and going down memory lane.
My wife is the youngest of seven and six of them made the trip. Prior to her parents death her siblings would all attempt to attend all family events. Those who smoked or drank chose to abstain for mom and dad's sake. Since the death of the parents, they feel free to exercise their freedom to do both. Hence the missing brother.
So we went to a time share condo place and each couple had their own room. Each condo had two bedrooms and a kitchen/living area. We met for home cooked meals and the drinkers didn't drink and the smokers went outside when the urge hit them. When we ate out, they did order a beer for one of the meals. And during the week they occasionally had some wine in their own unit. The beer at the BBQ restaurant was the only "imbibing" I witnessed. The brother who didn't attend is the IFB dude and he didn't want their behavior to taint his testimony.
All that to ask a question. How is their behavior his problem? Eating and drinking with sinners didn't hurt Jesus' reputation so why would it hurt the missing brother?

I'm not going to comment on the general topic, but let me say I respect that they "abstained" in the presence of their parents. I think it's great that they loved mom and dad enough to show them respect when in their presence. So often I see young adults who throw their different beliefs in their parents faces. I think we should show them that much respect while they are alive.

 

[subllibrm]

We just got back from a vacation with my wife's siblings. We had a great time catching up and going down memory lane.
My wife is the youngest of seven and six of them made the trip. Prior to her parents death her siblings would all attempt to attend all family events. Those who smoked or drank chose to abstain for mom and dad's sake. Since the death of the parents, they feel free to exercise their freedom to do both. Hence the missing brother.
So we went to a time share condo place and each couple had their own room. Each condo had two bedrooms and a kitchen/living area. We met for home cooked meals and the drinkers didn't drink and the smokers went outside when the urge hit them. When we ate out, they did order a beer for one of the meals. And during the week they occasionally had some wine in their own unit. The beer at the BBQ restaurant was the only "imbibing" I witnessed. The brother who didn't attend is the IFB dude and he didn't want their behavior to taint his testimony.
All that to ask a question. How is their behavior his problem? Eating and drinking with sinners didn't hurt Jesus' reputation so why would it hurt the missing brother?

I'm not going to comment on the general topic, but let me say I respect that they "abstained" in the presence of their parents. I think it's great that they loved mom and dad enough to show them respect when in their presence. So often I see young adults who throw their different beliefs in their parents faces. I think we should show them that much respect while they are alive.

True that. Honoring them does not stop when we move out of the house.

 

[Recovering IFB]

The pastor in the conversation is a picture perfect example of what happens when tradition trumps scripture. If you Google "positive examples of alcohol in the Bible", you'll be surprised how many versus pop up.
  And for everybody who is worried about their "testimony", you Biblical view  about your "testimony" is off. Your testimony should be Jesus Christ. Not put  your self as an example of "godly Christian behavior".

 

[Walt]

I am thankful that I do not like the taste of alcohol. Ergo, never been a problem for me personally.

I have never tasted alcohol, but I must admit that I am tempted to try it (except beer, that stuff smells horrible.)  However, even though I may have the liberty to have a drink, I choose to totally abstain.  I know that it is not good for my testimony and that is reason enough.  However, I also know that if I allow myself a drink once in a while, I may enjoy it and could lead to a habit.  I am not worried about alcoholism, but I don't want to become a regular drinker.  Thus, I refuse to even have my first taste.

Reading your post sounded like I was reading my own thoughts and comments.  I think you and I believe very similar things in this area.  I appreciate your post; I don't often speak up because of the arrogant, dismissive attitude of "leaders".

 

[Walt]

We just got back from a vacation with my wife's siblings. We had a great time catching up and going down memory lane.

My wife is the youngest of seven and six of them made the trip. Prior to her parents death her siblings would all attempt to attend all family events. Those who smoked or drank chose to abstain for mom and dad's sake. Since the death of the parents, they feel free to exercise their freedom to do both. Hence the missing brother.

So we went to a time share condo place and each couple had their own room. Each condo had two bedrooms and a kitchen/living area. We met for home cooked meals and the drinkers didn't drink and the smokers went outside when the urge hit them. When we ate out, they did order a beer for one of the meals. And during the week they occasionally had some wine in their own unit. The beer at the BBQ restaurant was the only "imbibing" I witnessed. The brother who didn't attend is the IFB dude and he didn't want their behavior to taint his testimony.

All that to ask a question. How is their behavior his problem? Eating and drinking with sinners didn't hurt Jesus' reputation so why would it hurt the missing brother?

Plus, in the future, all that they will remember is that he didn't bother to come to a family event.

We've had the same issue about going to drinking weddings, but a wise counsellor told us that if we miss only because of the drink, they will remember only that you didn't care to come to their wedding and made some lame excuse.