Christmas services

[abcaines]

I don't much care for churches that cancel for football games. A church I attended years ago tried making a service out of a Super Bowl game, the idea being getting a bunch of guys together and giving a gospel presentation during halftime. A good idea in theory but by the first commercial break, the obvious problems became all too apparent. I don't think they tried that again.

I used to be into big games but they seldom lived up to their billing. Then the commercials and halftime extravaganzas began to take center stage. I gave up on all that stuff even before the woke players started their crap.

No thanks. For me, there isn't a big enough game that would make me forego going to a regularly scheduled church service. Besides, schedule conflicts are very rare but I have been living in the Pacific time zone since the late 80s. Maybe other time zones have different schedules; I can't remember.

 

[AverageJoe]

Now that Christmas is over, does anybody care to debate the controversial question of whether to cancel church services for a football game? (Super Bowl, Lemon Bowl, Oatmeal Bowl or whatever).

(Naturally, each congregation is independent and can do what they want, but you never know - when a church cancels a service, some members may go visit another church service and they just might like that other church better).

I haven't ever liked the idea of a church canceling services for something secular like football/Superbowls, etc. But, I agree, each church has that right. Some of the churches we went to had their services earlier in the evening to accommodate having the gathering to watch the game in the church. I know when one church we went to canceled all evening services to watch the Superbowl, my wife and I went and visited another church, and we loved it. Six months later, we were members of that church.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Now that Christmas is over, does anybody care to debate the controversial question of whether to cancel church services for a football game? (Super Bowl, Lemon Bowl, Oatmeal Bowl or whatever).

(Naturally, each congregation is independent and can do what they want, but you never know - when a church cancels a service, some members may go visit another church service and they just might like that other church better).

I was teaching during Wednesday night prayer meetings at my former Church and the Astros were playing in the World Series (I believe this was 2019?) and long story short, not a single man showed up for the services (including the Deacons who had requested me to teach). Had a good showing with the ladies and we had a great time of prayer and fellowship around the word of God nonetheless. I had some very stern words for these Deacons the following Sunday! I am not a legalist but if you are a leader in the Church (and these Deacons were functional "Elders" in the absence of a permanent pastor at the time) and tell the members we are having services at an appointed time, they had BETTER have a good reason for not being there when the doors are open!

Yes, I have no problem whatsoever in calling men who choose watching a Football game over attending Church services with their families to be a bunch of carnal reprobates! HAAAY - MAAAYAN!!!! I hope your team loses! The Astros lost to the Nationals that year as I recall.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Sunday night services? That’s still a thing?

 

[abcaines]

Sunday night services? That’s still a thing?

It is for those who don't have to get up at the crack of dawn or earlier. By 5 or 6 pm, I'm SPENT. Even on Sunday.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Sunday night services? That’s still a thing?

 

[ALAYMAN]

OK, a little truth in advertising, we don’t have an evening service any longer since the pandemic and all that resulted from that. Having said that, and keeping it brief, I think a lot of the issue surrounding canceling services deals with the capitulation of the church to pressures from the culture of our day, which is all too often about convenience, indulgence and a consumerist mindset.

 

[abcaines]

So, despite the fact that I am wrapping up a year-long read through of the Bible this weekend and plan to embark on a 90 day read through this Sunday, because I don't attend an evening service, I lack a hunger for the Word?

 

[abcaines]

OK, a little truth in advertising, we don’t have an evening service any longer since the pandemic and all that resulted from that. Having said that, and keeping it brief, I think a lot of the issue surrounding canceling services deals with the capitulation of the church to pressures from the culture of our day, which is all too often about convenience, indulgence and a consumerist mindset.

Canceling services for the panic-demic started out as a short-term cooperation with the powers to be to do our part in not spreading the virus. However, it very quickly became apparent the government, at best, was criminally inconsistent (even in the "conservative" bastion of Idaho) in deciding which services were essential and which were not. Our church opened back up after six weeks and we were SWAMPED with people the first few weeks.

Now, I'll not judge beyond your confession about why your church still hasn't restarted evening services to this date, but I don't think Alistair Begg has much ground to stand on pontificating why evening services are not being held than I have grounds to say his teaching is so popular because of his Scottish brogue.

For the record, our church has been teaching through the books of 1&2 Samuel on Wednesday evenings at 7pm. I'd LOVE to sit in on this study but unfortunately, because I am up by 0530 and typically don't finish work until at least 1630, by the time 7pm rolls around, I am TOAST. If anything, perhaps having opportunity to sit under sound teaching only once a week (among other things) has sparked my desire to be in the Word for myself each day.

 

[ALAYMAN]

So, despite the fact that I am wrapping up a year-long read through of the Bible this weekend and plan to embark on a 90 day read through this Sunday, because I don't attend an evening service, I lack a hunger for the Word?

One person does not constitute a Church. His observations are anecdotal to his own experience with churches he and Ferguson have dealt with, and consequently merely his own opinion about their relationship to them. Additionally, there are always exceptions to rules, as I am sure your own experience testifies to, unless you are suggesting that your experience of desiring the word and missing church services is the norm for the Christian life.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Canceling services for the panic-demic started out as a short-term cooperation with the powers to be to do our part in not spreading the virus. However, it very quickly became apparent the government, at best, was criminally inconsistent (even in the "conservative" bastion of Idaho) in deciding which services were essential and which were not. Our church opened back up after six weeks and we were SWAMPED with people the first few weeks.

Now, I'll not judge beyond your confession about why your church still hasn't restarted evening services to this date, but I don't think Alistair Begg has much ground to stand on pontificating why evening services are not being held than I have grounds to say his teaching is so popular because of his Scottish brogue.

For the record, our church has been teaching through the books of 1&2 Samuel on Wednesday evenings at 7pm. I'd LOVE to sit in on this study but unfortunately, because I am up by 0530 and typically don't finish work until at least 1630, by the time 7pm rolls around, I am TOAST. If anything, perhaps having opportunity to sit under sound teaching only once a week (among other things) has sparked my desire to be in the Word for myself each day.

Agree on the governmental overreach, and good to hear of your hunger for the word daily.

Regarding the personal correlation you make about being too tired from work, a perfectly understandable rationale, would you say that in times past when evening services were more well attended that the energy/work level circumstances for the average attendee were all that dissimilar to now? If not, then how would you attempt to explain the general trend away from holding evening services now?

 

[AverageJoe]

I know for my wife and myself, we don't go to any type of evening service, and probably wouldn't in light of our needing to be up at 2 and 3 AM every morning. We don't go to Wednesday services because they've been moved to 6 PM, and we couldn't make it at that time. It was hard enough at 7 PM. My wife didn't get home until after 6 PM every evening from work which is over 1 1/2 hours away. Our old IFB church was very judgemental about this, but, when we went to the SBC churches, we didn't have any problem with it at all. In the Cowboy Church we cooperate with, there's only a Sunday morning service. We watch many different church services online each week, many of the pastors are friends of ours.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

and probably wouldn't in light of our needing to be up at 2 and 3 AM every morning

What?!?

My wife didn't get home until after 6 PM every evening from work which is over 1 1/2 hours away

What (again)?!?

Our old IFB church was very judgemental about this

Good thing it wasn’t me. I’d tell them to stick it where the sun never shines.

In the Cowboy Church we cooperate with, there's only a Sunday morning service.

Church attendance is at an all-time low. There’s no need to waste limited money and resources on an empty building on Sunday night. Save on the water & electric and let folks enjoy some Sunday evening family time before the work week cranks up.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

OK, a little truth in advertising, we don’t have an evening service any longer since the pandemic and all that resulted from that. Having said that, and keeping it brief, I think a lot of the issue surrounding canceling services deals with the capitulation of the church

No offense, Alayman, but as an associate minister in your church, it seems a little hypocritical of you to take the stance you have but preface it with this statement.

As I said in a post to Joe: “Church attendance is at an all-time low. There’s no need to waste limited money and resources on an empty building on Sunday night. Save on the water & electric and let folks enjoy some Sunday evening family time before the work week cranks up.”

You seem to be a student of history. That being said, what is the biblical precedent for holding Sunday night services? If we’re looking at recent history in America (and I presume Canada and parts of Europe), services used to be multiple hours at a time. Revivals would last for two weeks and go all night. Are we to think we’re now reprobates for only holding revival services for five or seven days at a time?

I’m not very old, but I’m old enough to have seen a lot of stores that were once thought of as unsinkable go out of business, and some of them held the status as “American institutions.” Sears, Kmart, and others immediately come to mind. They always had one thing in common: they were behind the times and unable (or unwilling) to adapt to changing times. I’ve often thought if churches were businesses, many would have gone bankrupt decades ago. Whether we like it or not, churches are businesses, and many are going bankrupt. I don’t think churches need to capitulate to the world in order to adapt to newer generations and newer thinking, but staying stagnant isn’t the answer.

 

[illinoisguy]

My personal opinion - canceling services for a sporting event is a bad testimony for a church, it raises questions about just what our priorities are, and it may create hard feelings among visitors who did not know that the service was canceled, and arrive at church to find locked doors.

Years ago some people in my church tried to shut down our Sunday evening service. Their excuse was to save money on the heating bill. The real reason was that they didn't want to attend, and didn't want to look bad for not attending, so they tried to shut it down. I was opposed to that, because the Sunday evening service was very well attended, and the money taken in with the evening offering was much more than the negligible amount we might have saved on the heating bill. We never told our people that they had to attend all the services, or put them on a guilt trip on that issue. My policy (which was ultimately accepted) was that if you don't want to attend, don't attend, but don't shut down the service for those who want to attend and who may not be able to come on Sunday morning because of work or whatever.

Each church situation is different. If the evening services are poorly attended and no longer serve a useful purpose, then it is okay to shut them down, and I would not be opposed to that, based on any extra-scriptural principle about having to keep the services going in the evenings, or "3 to thrive" or whatever. The church I attend now meets on Sunday morning only, in a rented public school where evening services are not a possibility. So I would not judge any church on that issue, one way or another. But please don't bring in the Super Bowl, with its half-time wardrobe malfunctions and woke propaganda, into your Sunday evening service!

 

[AverageJoe]

What?!?

Yep...When she has to drive 1 to 1 1/2 hrs to work one way, we have to get up, get the dogs out, fed, our breakfast/coffee, and everything else done before she leaves at 5 AM. We've been doing this for over 25 years now.

What (again)?!?

Our church used to meet at 7 PM on Wednesdays, but years ago moved it back to 6 PM because those older than us were having a hard time with night blindness when driving...and our church at that time had a HUGE older congregation. My wife and I are now in that group. LOL We don't like driving at night either! But, with her often not getting off work until after 4 PM and the long drive home and the bad traffic, we, if she got home before 6 PM couldn't drive there in the 10 or so minjutes before the service. It would take a good 20 minutes. to go 7 miles.

Good thing it wasn’t me. I’d tell them to stick it where the sun never shines.

We basically did. The pastor wasn't a good communicator, and he definitely wasn't a friendly person. He was a Hyles lover!

Church attendance is at an all-time low. There’s no need to waste limited money and resources on an empty building on Sunday night. Save on the water & electric and let folks enjoy some Sunday evening family time before the work week cranks up.

In many of the IFB churches I know of, they have started cancelling the Sunday evening services, and now are in favor of "small groups." Many of the congregants don't/won't go to them.

 

[abcaines]

Agree on the governmental overreach, and good to hear of your hunger for the word daily.

Regarding the personal correlation you make about being too tired from work, a perfectly understandable rationale, would you say that in times past when evening services were more well attended that the energy/work level circumstances for the average attendee were all that dissimilar to now? If not, then how would you attempt to explain the general trend away from holding evening services now?

I drive school bus for a living. Long story short, it takes a minimum of 10 hours for me to fulfill the 6.5 hour base I am on. By the time my day is done, I am DONE.

The vast majority of Wednesday evening attendees at my church are retired or have jobs where it takes them 8 hours to put in 8 hours of work. By the time evening services start, I'm halfway to la-la land.

Frankly, in 40 years of church attendance, I am hard pressed to recall ever seeing evening service attendance being more than a third of Sunday morning attendance. The only exception to this is when I was attending the Campus Church at PCC where evening service attendance was mandatory for all students. At some of the larger churches I have attended, evening services were preferable to me because of the smaller crowds and laid back atmosphere.

Another thing I've noticed is formal evening services are much more frequent in the South than on the West Coast. Not to say evening services don't occur, but they typically take a different form than the more formal/liturgical service. Small group Bible studies, AWANA, for example.

I guess it comes down to what qualifies as a requirement. Must church meetings always be a formal liturgical affair or does a gathering of believers in order to fellowship and build one another in prayer and the Word in a more club-like environment qualify? If the latter is so, then, no, I don't see much of a decline in evening service attendance or frequency over the years.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

My church sometimes has Sunday night services, but it’s usually for special occasions or visiting speakers or singers. They used to always have an evening service, but between Covid, an aging congregation, and lower attendance at nights, it kind o faded away. I will say that I will sometimes skip the morning service and go to the evening service when they hold it, because I also like the more relaxed atmosphere of an evening service over the suit & tie atmosphere of the morning service.

 

[aleshanee]

Now that Christmas is over, does anybody care to debate the controversial question of whether to cancel church services for a football game? (Super Bowl, Lemon Bowl, Oatmeal Bowl or whatever).

(Naturally, each congregation is independent and can do what they want, but you never know - when a church cancels a service, some members may go visit another church service and they just might like that other church better).

.
there;s no controversy on this subject at either church i am a part of... in fact i have never even heard it discussed..... and since neither one has ever cancelled a service for christmas i can;t imagine they would cancel a service for a sporting event...... ....but just out of curiosity... are we talking about cancelling a service because the whole church will be attending the event?... in person?.... or are we talking about cancelling church because a game will be on television?.....

in the past trends on the mainland had very little effect on hawaii due to the fact we are separated by thousands of miles and half the pacific ocean... . but recently things have been changing faster mostly due to expanded television and the internet... so when people talk about changing trends in the culture that;s what comes to my mind... it effects those locked into those 2 forms of entertainment and information exchange more so than anyone else...

and as a side note.. our church always has a midight service on christmas eve..... and i have attended sunday church services on christmas morning 4 times now over the years.... . and to me they have always been some of the most special and rewarding church services ever.... i can;t think of the right word at the moment but they were blessings in very big way.... in the same way easter morning services are.... if anything they serve to put christmas back into the right perspective and have a way of brushing aside all the commercialism and consumerism that has taken over christmas... and showing how little those other things matter... ... ....i would not miss christmas morning services for the world....

 

[aleshanee]

I don't much care for churches that cancel for football games. A church I attended years ago tried making a service out of a Super Bowl game, the idea being getting a bunch of guys together and giving a gospel presentation during halftime. A good idea in theory but by the first commercial break, the obvious problems became all too apparent. I don't think they tried that again.

I used to be into big games but they seldom lived up to their billing. Then the commercials and halftime extravaganzas began to take center stage. I gave up on all that stuff even before the woke players started their crap.

No thanks. For me, there isn't a big enough game that would make me forego going to a regularly scheduled church service. Besides, schedule conflicts are very rare but I have been living in the Pacific time zone since the late 80s. Maybe other time zones have different schedules; I can't remember.

i am with you all the way on this.... i stopped watching american pro-sports a long time ago too... mostly due to the anti-national anthem protests..... and i stopped watching most of all other television long before that due to the overbearing and nauseating idiocy of ads and commercials, that ruin whatever good experience might be gained from watching tv.... ...

as far as sports go - it;s college softball... pro-rodeo.. and international rugby that we always try to catch live whenever possible... but if not it will always come on again in a rebroadcast or we can also record it and watch it when we want to.... ..and then we also have a couple of channels from spain, italy and france that broadcast bull fighting.. .. - which my dad and i are big fans of.... but i don;t stay home from church to watch it......

.as a teenager i use to skip school and sneak onto the bus to go see big waves on the north shore whenever they topped 25 feet and the big wave guys went out on their boards.... if i was going to skip church nowdays for something - or anything, i might consider doing it for that... . but it would have to be something like the 50 ft big wave wednesday that occured years ago, occuring again on a sunday.... and so far nothing has been interesting enough up there to tempt me...