Coming out as an Agnostic

[Twisted]

If they had both been agnostics and he became a born again believer would you say that she deserved a very contrite and repentant husband?

If he was born again, he still and forever will be.

If he isn't, then he was lost then and lost now.

 

[LongGone]

Your approach to the situation is only considering it from the agnostics side of view. It is neither a loving nor Just idea to defend him.

what this woman is going to be faced with is a total rocking of her world. Her covenant basis of marriage was based on a mutual understanding and commitment to God and understanding his work in their lives.

Now he is going to complete undermine his vows. He is declaring that he intends to live as a biblical fool. Which means that all of the characteristics of a fool in the proverbs are open game.

That is why Paul takes this very seriously when he instructs the woman who is now living with an unbelieving husband to be willing to let him go.

So we?re not just simply talking about a change of politics or feelings. We are talking about a total undermining of this marriage.

That is why I am so committed to the idea that he needs to approach this as humbly and apologetically as possible. Because it would?ve been far easier for her to hear that he no longer loves her. It?s going to be much harder for her accept the fact that he does not love God.


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I agree it may rock her world (or she may have already figured it out) but I can't agree that it would be far easier to hear that he no longer loves her.

I still have an issue with the term charade. In using that term you assume that he lost faith a long time ago and for years has been dishonest with her about his beliefs. I don't believe it is fair to make that assumption with the facts that we currently know.

 

[Gringo]

Your approach to the situation is only considering it from the agnostics side of view. It is neither a loving nor Just idea to defend him.

what this woman is going to be faced with is a total rocking of her world. Her covenant basis of marriage was based on a mutual understanding and commitment to God and understanding his work in their lives.

Now he is going to complete undermine his vows. He is declaring that he intends to live as a biblical fool. Which means that all of the characteristics of a fool in the proverbs are open game.

That is why Paul takes this very seriously when he instructs the woman who is now living with an unbelieving husband to be willing to let him go.

So we?re not just simply talking about a change of politics or feelings. We are talking about a total undermining of this marriage.

That is why I am so committed to the idea that he needs to approach this as humbly and apologetically as possible. Because it would?ve been far easier for her to hear that he no longer loves her. It?s going to be much harder for her accept the fact that he does not love God.


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Exactly WHAT are you saying he should do?

 

[FSSL]

Exactly WHAT are you saying he should do?

Get counseling from a wise pastor.

Be absolutely humble and seeking forgiveness of his spouse for this very bad situation.

 

[FSSL]

I still have an issue with the term charade. In using that term you assume that he lost faith a long time ago and for years has been dishonest with her about his beliefs. I don't believe it is fair to make that assumption with the facts that we currently know.

I am saying that this didn?t happen overnight. To become an agnostic after thinking you loved God is not a fast moving decision.

There has been a considerable amount of time.

 

[Joseph007]

Exactly WHAT are you saying he should do?

Get counseling from a wise pastor.

Be absolutely humble and seeking forgiveness of his spouse for this very bad situation.

Lol. No.

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[FSSL]

Lol. No.

There we have it. The only advice anyone should give Joseph is to give up his foolishness and repent.

He is determined to destroy the foundations of his marriage with impunity.

He has ZERO concern for his wife?s love for God and her feelings in this matter.

 

[FSSL]

I agree it may rock her world (or she may have already figured it out) but I can't agree that it would be far easier to hear that he no longer loves her.

You won?t agree because you have eliminated God from the equation. Joseph?s last response tells us everything we need to know.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Lol. No.

There we have it. The only advice anyone should give Joseph is to give up his foolishness and repent.

He is determined to destroy the foundations of his marriage with impunity.

He has ZERO concern for his wife?s love for God and her feelings in this matter.

In other words, he should seek help from his abusers, whether physical, emotional or spiritual.

The fact he came on here looking for someone with some advice indicates he DOES love his wife and cares about her feelings. If his marriage were founded on a specific religious viewpoint or a belief in a specific deity, it won?t weather the challenges his new perspective brings. But true love ?endures all things.?

 

[FSSL]

He just said, above, that he has no intention of humbly seeking forgiveness from his spouse. His response? ?Lol. No.?

He has unilaterally changed his marriage vows and needs to understand that this is no laughing matter. It is not a simple change of viewpoint. It is THE ultimate rejection.

He came to a fundamentalist forum... he owe it to him to instruct him biblically.

 

[Route_70]

He came to a fundamentalist forum... we owe it to him to instruct him biblically.

How are you going to intruct me biblically, seeing that I know the Bible better than any ten people on this forum put together?

 

[Twisted]

He came to a fundamentalist forum... we owe it to him to instruct him biblically.

How are you going to intruct me biblically, seeing that I know the Bible better than any ten people on this forum put together?

LOL!!  I love it!

 

[ALAYMAN]

Lol. No.

There we have it. The only advice anyone should give Joseph is to give up his foolishness and repent.

He is determined to destroy the foundations of his marriage with impunity.

He has ZERO concern for his wife?s love for God and her feelings in this matter.

In other words, he should seek help from his abusers, whether physical, emotional or spiritual.

The fact he came on here looking for someone with some advice indicates he DOES love his wife and cares about her feelings. If his marriage were founded on a specific religious viewpoint or a belief in a specific deity, it won?t weather the challenges his new perspective brings. But true love ?endures all things.?

How do you know his motive for why he came here?  He may have come looking for reasons to excuse himself from having to explain why he changed to a position of unbelief, or a whole host of other motives.  One thing is for sure, he has shown more affinity to respond to those who hold his own agnostic beliefs, ignoring other advice from believers.  The instruction FSSL gave is good.  Whether Joseph is going to return to a faith position is his choice, but his abandonment of what he pledged at his vows to his wife ought to be taken to her with an attitude of humility.  That's pretty simple and ought to be without controversy.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Lol. No.

There we have it. The only advice anyone should give Joseph is to give up his foolishness and repent.

He is determined to destroy the foundations of his marriage with impunity.

He has ZERO concern for his wife?s love for God and her feelings in this matter.

In other words, he should seek help from his abusers, whether physical, emotional or spiritual.

The fact he came on here looking for someone with some advice indicates he DOES love his wife and cares about her feelings. If his marriage were founded on a specific religious viewpoint or a belief in a specific deity, it won?t weather the challenges his new perspective brings. But true love ?endures all things.?

How do you know his motive for why he came here?  He may have come looking for reasons to excuse himself from having to explain why he changed to a position of unbelief, or a whole host of other motives.  One thing is for sure, he has shown more affinity to respond to those who hold his own agnostic beliefs, ignoring other advice from believers.  The instruction FSSL gave is good.  Whether Joseph is going to return to a faith position is his choice, but his abandonment of what he pledged at his vows to his wife ought to be taken to her with an attitude of humility.  That's pretty simple and ought to be without controversy.

You're right. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. However, do you know Joseph and know what he said in his vows? Do you know what causes forced him to drift away from the faith? What if abuse from the church was the catalyst to cause his descent? Should a Catholic boy who was molested by his priest go to the priest in the next diocese to get counsel? Or do you think he should seek help through professional and/or legal counseling?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Lol. No.

There we have it. The only advice anyone should give Joseph is to give up his foolishness and repent.

He is determined to destroy the foundations of his marriage with impunity.

He has ZERO concern for his wife?s love for God and her feelings in this matter.

In other words, he should seek help from his abusers, whether physical, emotional or spiritual.

The fact he came on here looking for someone with some advice indicates he DOES love his wife and cares about her feelings. If his marriage were founded on a specific religious viewpoint or a belief in a specific deity, it won?t weather the challenges his new perspective brings. But true love ?endures all things.?

How do you know his motive for why he came here?  He may have come looking for reasons to excuse himself from having to explain why he changed to a position of unbelief, or a whole host of other motives.  One thing is for sure, he has shown more affinity to respond to those who hold his own agnostic beliefs, ignoring other advice from believers.  The instruction FSSL gave is good.  Whether Joseph is going to return to a faith position is his choice, but his abandonment of what he pledged at his vows to his wife ought to be taken to her with an attitude of humility.  That's pretty simple and ought to be without controversy.

You're right. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. However, do you know Joseph and know what he said in his vows? Do you know what causes forced him to drift away from the faith? What if abuse from the church was the catalyst to cause his descent? Should a Catholic boy who was molested by his priest go to the priest in the next diocese to get counsel? Or do you think he should seek help through professional and/or legal counseling?

I know that he is a former fundamentalist, most likely from the Vineyard stripe, and as such I have a better-then-educated guess what was inherent to his vows.

As far as him seeking help on a fundamentalist forum, it probably has more to do with the reputation that this place has as filled with former IFBxers more than anything else.  Birds of a feather and all that.

 

[FSSL]

The agnostics and atheists on this forum are ONLY giving Joseph "benefits of doubt." Not ONE has expressed concern for the wife.

Why is agnosticism and atheism so cruel?

 

[Route_70]

Why is agnosticism and atheism so cruel?

According to the Believers on this forum, an all-mighty, capable of doing anything, omnipresent, all-knowing, all-loving God has so arranged things in this world that some people are born, destined to spend an eternity in a lake of fire, suffering unimaginable torture.  Why is this God so cruel?

 

[FSSL]

Why is He so good to allow you another breath?


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[Route_70]

Why is He so good to allow you another breath?

Why not?  What have I done so bad that I don't deserve another breath? 

Why do you avoid my question?  Why is this God so cruel, as to arrange this world so that some people are destined to spend an eternity in a lake of fire, suffering unimaginable torture after they die?

Do you not see how absurd this doctrine is?

 

[Twisted]

Do you not see how absurd this doctrine is?

Of course.  That's why so few believe it.

And before you say there are many Calvinists, many of those believe that they can have an influence on others for Christ.  They are not *pure* Calvinists.