.tim said:
The problem is not with the beverage, itself. The problem came because of a lack of discipline.
There will be food in heaven. Gluttony has brought shame on many.
There will no longer be any shame in heaven.
Drinking
- Thread starter JrChurch
- Start date
The problem is not with the beverage, itself. The problem came because of a lack of discipline.
There will be food in heaven. Gluttony has brought shame on many.
There will no longer be any shame in heaven.
T
.tim
Guest
FSSL said:
So ... I have heard preachers say that food in heaven will not cause us to gain weight .. etc ...
What about wine? Can we still get drunk on it? Or, will be be non-alcoholic? Or, limited effect?
.tim said:
I would assume, not having been to heaven yet, that it would be the same quality as what Jesus made at the wedding.
I don't ask this sarcastically, but would it matter if we drank to our hearts content in heaven? Would it matter if we ate to our heart's content in heaven? There were no limitations placed upon Adam & Eve.
T
.tim
Guest
FSSL said:
In Heaven, would Fried Chicken and Sweet Iced Tea have the calories and fat like it does down here on earth?
.tim said:
Let's hope so!!!!
Where did Barbara go? 8) She'll make sweet tea in heaven
Yes, Wine, aka medicine in a day where the water was contaminated. They Great Physician used this wedding to performRecovering IFB said:
one of his greatest miracles showing them who he was. His mission to save Souls continued. They drank and were merry, probably tasted amazing.
I'd partake too...
Matthew 9:12
On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
- Messages
- 6,975
- Reaction score
- 104
- Points
- 63
This is an excellent point.christundivided said:
Some, claim the holy hi-road, then turn right around and want to dictate what everyone around them's liberty should be limited too, feigning weakness.
The truth is, they are weak, and the thing that they stumble over is people allowing them to mishandle the Word.
So, for their sake, you should always resist them, iron sharpening iron, as this will not cause them to stumble over the suffering of folly.
Anishinaabe
T
.tim
Guest
Biker said:
She came to the conclusion that the internet was evil.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Messages
- 13,751
- Reaction score
- 3,860
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Biker said:
Really? Jesus made huge vats of medicine for a wedding so that the celebration could go on without the guests getting dysentery from the water?
Are you sure you aren't drunk?
admin said:
To our esteemed leader, the reason I'm using your quote is because you were the first one the refer to I Tim. 5:23. I don't drink & told my kids not to. If ya all do & did that's your business . But if I was to use the scripture to say it was ok to drink I wouldn't use I Tim 5:23. It don't PROVE NUTTIN either way. So my question is to anybody, since Timothy apparently didn't drink and had to be told to drink the alcohol for medical purposes, why didn't he drink to begin with? I'd tell ya my answer but.............................................
Timothy an x'er?
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2013
- Messages
- 5,279
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 0
I think whine is more detrimental than wine, and there's a lot of it going on.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2012
- Messages
- 10,624
- Reaction score
- 3,832
- Points
- 113
admin said:
You pull more stuff out of your nether regions than the average bear. If your conclusions about Timothy are accurate based on verse 3 then you must also conclude he was caught up in lying, myths, demonic teaching and apostasy since those traits are also mentioned as a continuous thought starting in verse one. Of course none of those things are attributable to Timothy, as verse 1 clearly spells out these things will characterize people in the "later times" (the close of the world). More of those Free Sunday School Lessons eh?
ALAYMAN said:You pull more stuff out of your nether regions than the average bear. If your conclusions about Timothy are accurate based on verse 3 then you must also conclude he was caught up in lying, myths, demonic teaching and apostasy since those traits are also mentioned as a continuous thought starting in verse one. Of course none of those things are attributable to Timothy, as verse 1 clearly spells out these things will characterize people in the "later times" (the close of the world). More of those Free Sunday School Lessons eh?
My Sunday School Lessons are free so that you can afford them AND that allows you to get some good commentaries in your library!
So, are you telling us that 4:3 was not a warning about the false teachers in Timothy's day and ONLY characteristic of those in the "later times?"
Gordon Fee says, " Paul, however, is quick to qualify that brief personal word to Timothy. If he does not want Timothy sharing in their sins, neither does he want him to get caught up in the false teachers’ view of purity, namely, abstaining from certain foods (4:3), which apparently included wine. Thus he says, stop drinking only water. Every other known use of this verb in antiquity means to drink only water in the sense of abstaining from wine. Therefore, Paul is saying, by keeping yourself pure, I do not mean to live as an “abstainer.†Indeed the insistence on abstinence is a part of the hypocrisy of the false teachers, one of their “sins.†Fee, G. D. (2011). 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus. Understanding the Bible Commentary Series (132). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books.
Lea & Griffin in the excellent NAC says, "One of the problems of the false teachers involved the practice of asceticism concerning foods (4:3). Perhaps Timothy had been influenced by this practice, and Paul now advised him about it. Paul gave fatherly directives to Timothy in urging him to take some wine to help his digestion. Lea, T. D., & Griffin, H. P. (1992). Vol. 34: 1, 2 Timothy, Titus. The New American Commentary (158). Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers.
In the Greek... the phrase "drink no longer water" (poor translation in KJV) means "do not drink water exclusively." Paul told Timothy to stop his exclusive water drinking.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2012
- Messages
- 10,624
- Reaction score
- 3,832
- Points
- 113
FSSL said:
I'm just yanking your chain man, so in the words of a sage counselor on the FFF, lighten up man.
On the serious side, your commentary was nothing more than speculation, unfounded contextually, just as Fee and NAC was. Later on in verse 6 we see....
1Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
Paul is commending Timothy for having followed good doctrine. Undoubtedly he is mentoring a young preacher-boy who has shown promise and calling, not having shown signs of being a heretic nor easily succeptible to being taken in by all the errors Paul is listing.
admin said:
Not at all. Clearly the early church had just as many challenges and problems in praxis and doctrine, but I don't see anything in the text that would warrant making Timothy a pastor if he is showing signs of being a heretic. Obviously the early part of the letter is laying out guidelines for what would make for a good/mature minister of the gospel, and if after having developed such criteria Paul would have mentioned how Timothy did not rise to these qualifications if indeed that was the case.
admin said:
If that's true about v. 3 then I'd also have to assume Timothy was departing from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their/his conscience seared with a hot iron. I don't buy that one bit. Paul was warning Timothy {and us} about the latter times. That has nuttin to do with the question I asked.
admin said:
I didn't. I told you "I don't buy it". If one claims v. 3 applies to Timothy about his drinking wine then one would have to conclude V's 1 & 2 applies to him also
admin said:
I never said otherwise
admin said:
In a earlier post {I think on the second page} I posted 4 translations which said the same thing. Which begs the question I asked "since Timothy apparently didn't drink and had to be told to drink the alcohol for medical purposes, why didn't he drink to begin with? I Tim 4:3 doesn't answer that question......And BTW, I have close to 800 commentaries and you can do better that Fee