Hylesisms

[Walt]

To this day, I still remember a visitor coming to fbch with a friend of mine. This friend was showing him around and I heard him say that they baptized over 10,000 people the year before. He just looked around and asked, "Where are they?"

Ten lepers were healed yet only one of them returned to thank the Saviour.

I knew you were waiting for that one! 

On a serious note, I'm tired of churches that push hard for "soul-winning" use verses like this to justify their appalling numbers; thousands saved per year, while the church grows by 10 people.  It is a travesty, and yet they congratulate themselves on being an aggressive "soul-winning" church.  They sell heaven, and tell people that they are "saved" merely because they have said a prayer.  This is not the Christianity of the New Testament.

I know that the comments were in jest above, but it is a tragedy - giving false assurance to people by telling them that they are going to heaven because they said a prayer.

The gratitude of the 10 lepers (10%) is not the same thing as salvation.

 

[sword]

To this day, I still remember a visitor coming to fbch with a friend of mine. This friend was showing him around and I heard him say that they baptized over 10,000 people the year before. He just looked around and asked, "Where are they?"

Ten lepers were healed yet only one of them returned to thank the Saviour.
I knew you were waiting for that one! 

On a serious note, I'm tired of churches that push hard for "soul-winning" use verses like this to justify their appalling numbers; thousands saved per year, while the church grows by 10 people.  It is a travesty, and yet they congratulate themselves on being an aggressive "soul-winning" church.  They sell heaven, and tell people that they are "saved" merely because they have said a prayer.  This is not the Christianity of the New Testament.
I know that the comments were in jest above, but it is a tragedy - giving false assurance to people by telling them that they are going to heaven because they said a prayer.

The gratitude of the 10 lepers (10%) is not the same thing as salvation.

I agree with your statement in principal but I do have a couple comments & a question.

In my county there are a half dozen active soul winning churches with various outreach methods.
If you go to any of the 40 or so more liberal churches you are likely to find people saved through the efforts of the aggressive outreach churches but now attending the other churches. In my experience fundamental baptist churches spend a lot of time and effort getting new converts and even getting them to church but for many reasons their not very good at keeping them. IFB churches can be pushy, demanding, unorganized and even down right mean. This is not a great formula for growth.

I think the emphasis should be on lives changed & people helped & spiritual growth. Salvation is just the first part of that process.

Now for my question, clearly conviction, belief and sincerity are essential components of salvation but beyond that it is just about believing with all your heart and asking God to save you.
Acts 16:30-33 & John 3

It's kinda simple

 

[Bruh]

To this day, I still remember a visitor coming to fbch with a friend of mine. This friend was showing him around and I heard him say that they baptized over 10,000 people the year before. He just looked around and asked, "Where are they?"

Ten lepers were healed yet only one of them returned to thank the Saviour.
I knew you were waiting for that one! 

On a serious note, I'm tired of churches that push hard for "soul-winning" use verses like this to justify their appalling numbers; thousands saved per year, while the church grows by 10 people.  It is a travesty, and yet they congratulate themselves on being an aggressive "soul-winning" church.  They sell heaven, and tell people that they are "saved" merely because they have said a prayer.  This is not the Christianity of the New Testament.
I know that the comments were in jest above, but it is a tragedy - giving false assurance to people by telling them that they are going to heaven because they said a prayer.

The gratitude of the 10 lepers (10%) is not the same thing as salvation.

I agree with your statement in principal but I do have a couple comments & a question.

In my county there are a half dozen active soul winning churches with various outreach methods.
If you go to any of the 40 or so more liberal churches you are likely to find people saved through the efforts of the aggressive outreach churches but now attending the other churches. In my experience fundamental baptist churches spend a lot of time and effort getting new converts and even getting them to church but for many reasons their not very good at keeping them. IFB churches can be pushy, demanding, unorganized and even down right mean. This is not a great formula for growth.

I think the emphasis should be on lives changed & people helped & spiritual growth. Salvation is just the first part of that process.

Now for my question, clearly conviction, belief and sincerity are essential components of salvation but beyond that it is just about believing with all your heart and asking God to save you.
Acts 16:30-33 & John 3

It's kinda simple

No. Yes, the message is simple but the part where people actually seeing themselves as deserving of hell is very very very difficult or repentance, repentance is a change of mind about your sin, that's the difficult part, agreeing that you need to think differently about your sin.

Message simple yes, but your part? No, not easy.

 

[Walt]

To this day, I still remember a visitor coming to fbch with a friend of mine. This friend was showing him around and I heard him say that they baptized over 10,000 people the year before. He just looked around and asked, "Where are they?"

Ten lepers were healed yet only one of them returned to thank the Saviour.
I knew you were waiting for that one! 

On a serious note, I'm tired of churches that push hard for "soul-winning" use verses like this to justify their appalling numbers; thousands saved per year, while the church grows by 10 people.  It is a travesty, and yet they congratulate themselves on being an aggressive "soul-winning" church.  They sell heaven, and tell people that they are "saved" merely because they have said a prayer.  This is not the Christianity of the New Testament.
I know that the comments were in jest above, but it is a tragedy - giving false assurance to people by telling them that they are going to heaven because they said a prayer.

The gratitude of the 10 lepers (10%) is not the same thing as salvation.

I agree with your statement in principal but I do have a couple comments & a question.

In my county there are a half dozen active soul winning churches with various outreach methods.
If you go to any of the 40 or so more liberal churches you are likely to find people saved through the efforts of the aggressive outreach churches but now attending the other churches. In my experience fundamental baptist churches spend a lot of time and effort getting new converts and even getting them to church but for many reasons their not very good at keeping them. IFB churches can be pushy, demanding, unorganized and even down right mean. This is not a great formula for growth.

I think the emphasis should be on lives changed & people helped & spiritual growth. Salvation is just the first part of that process.

Now for my question, clearly conviction, belief and sincerity are essential components of salvation but beyond that it is just about believing with all your heart and asking God to save you.
Acts 16:30-33 & John 3

It's kinda simple

I agree that that the facts about salvation are simple, and God has made salvation simple.

However, I am against the churches that have turned discussing eternity with someone into a 10-minute salesmanship pitch on heaven.  The holiness and righteousness of God used to be exalted, and THEN people had a sense of their enormous guiltiness before God, and wanting to be right with Him.

In many soul-winning courses, the (a) of "Admit you're a sinner" is little more than agreeing that no one is perfect; we've all made mistakes.  In modern America, I would venture to say that most people have no idea what sin is.

The old way was to point out how that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness.  In modern soul-winning courses, this point is glossed over and minimized so that we can get to the "free gift" of salvation.  No one is going to repent of his sins if he doesn't think he has any.  People don't want to come to God on His terms; they want God to accommodate their lifestyles.  People who get saved start with "Lord, what would thou have me to do?"  Today, it's "OK, I said the prayer, so I can go to heaven -- now don't bother me anymore."

 

[Walt]

To this day, I still remember a visitor coming to fbch with a friend of mine. This friend was showing him around and I heard him say that they baptized over 10,000 people the year before. He just looked around and asked, "Where are they?"

Ten lepers were healed yet only one of them returned to thank the Saviour.
I knew you were waiting for that one! 

On a serious note, I'm tired of churches that push hard for "soul-winning" use verses like this to justify their appalling numbers; thousands saved per year, while the church grows by 10 people.  It is a travesty, and yet they congratulate themselves on being an aggressive "soul-winning" church.  They sell heaven, and tell people that they are "saved" merely because they have said a prayer.  This is not the Christianity of the New Testament.
I know that the comments were in jest above, but it is a tragedy - giving false assurance to people by telling them that they are going to heaven because they said a prayer.

The gratitude of the 10 lepers (10%) is not the same thing as salvation.

I agree with your statement in principal but I do have a couple comments & a question.

In my county there are a half dozen active soul winning churches with various outreach methods.
If you go to any of the 40 or so more liberal churches you are likely to find people saved through the efforts of the aggressive outreach churches but now attending the other churches. In my experience fundamental baptist churches spend a lot of time and effort getting new converts and even getting them to church but for many reasons their not very good at keeping them. IFB churches can be pushy, demanding, unorganized and even down right mean. This is not a great formula for growth.

I think the emphasis should be on lives changed & people helped & spiritual growth. Salvation is just the first part of that process.

Now for my question, clearly conviction, belief and sincerity are essential components of salvation but beyond that it is just about believing with all your heart and asking God to save you.
Acts 16:30-33 & John 3

It's kinda simple

No. Yes, the message is simple but the part where people actually seeing themselves as deserving of hell is very very very difficult or repentance, repentance is a change of mind about your sin, that's the difficult part, agreeing that you need to think differently about your sin.

Message simple yes, but your part? No, not easy.

In modern America, it is hard for people to see themselves as they sinners they are.  We think that we're "pretty good".  We need to stop pushing to hard for people to say a prayer.  A true encounter with the living God is a life-changing event, and we have been far too quick to call someone "saved".

 

[patriotic]

To this day, I still remember a visitor coming to fbch with a friend of mine. This friend was showing him around and I heard him say that they baptized over 10,000 people the year before. He just looked around and asked, "Where are they?"

Ten lepers were healed yet only one of them returned to thank the Saviour.
I knew you were waiting for that one! 

On a serious note, I'm tired of churches that push hard for "soul-winning" use verses like this to justify their appalling numbers; thousands saved per year, while the church grows by 10 people.  It is a travesty, and yet they congratulate themselves on being an aggressive "soul-winning" church.  They sell heaven, and tell people that they are "saved" merely because they have said a prayer.  This is not the Christianity of the New Testament.
I know that the comments were in jest above, but it is a tragedy - giving false assurance to people by telling them that they are going to heaven because they said a prayer.

The gratitude of the 10 lepers (10%) is not the same thing as salvation.

I agree with your statement in principal but I do have a couple comments & a question.

In my county there are a half dozen active soul winning churches with various outreach methods.
If you go to any of the 40 or so more liberal churches you are likely to find people saved through the efforts of the aggressive outreach churches but now attending the other churches. In my experience fundamental baptist churches spend a lot of time and effort getting new converts and even getting them to church but for many reasons their not very good at keeping them. IFB churches can be pushy, demanding, unorganized and even down right mean. This is not a great formula for growth.

I think the emphasis should be on lives changed & people helped & spiritual growth. Salvation is just the first part of that process.

Now for my question, clearly conviction, belief and sincerity are essential components of salvation but beyond that it is just about believing with all your heart and asking God to save you.
Acts 16:30-33 & John 3

It's kinda simple

No. Yes, the message is simple but the part where people actually seeing themselves as deserving of hell is very very very difficult or repentance, repentance is a change of mind about your sin, that's the difficult part, agreeing that you need to think differently about your sin.

Message simple yes, but your part? No, not easy.

In modern America, it is hard for people to see themselves as they sinners they are.  We think that we're "pretty good".  We need to stop pushing to hard for people to say a prayer.  A true encounter with the living God is a life-changing event, and we have been far too quick to call someone "saved".

Aw, man! Are you telling me Jesus did it wrong?
Peter and the other disciples  too?
The apostle Paul???

When will you be able to rewrite Acts  16  like it should  be so we all can be assured the Philippian jailor and his house were truly saved?



Now, I am NOT for what some of you call "easy believism". I am thorough when I go through a version of the Romans Road. I will NOT even go into the "prayer" unless I believe the Holy Spirit wants me to do so, but c'mon.  Some of you post as though you seem to think you're better at God's work than God himself is.

 

[Bruh]

To this day, I still remember a visitor coming to fbch with a friend of mine. This friend was showing him around and I heard him say that they baptized over 10,000 people the year before. He just looked around and asked, "Where are they?"

Ten lepers were healed yet only one of them returned to thank the Saviour.
I knew you were waiting for that one! 

On a serious note, I'm tired of churches that push hard for "soul-winning" use verses like this to justify their appalling numbers; thousands saved per year, while the church grows by 10 people.  It is a travesty, and yet they congratulate themselves on being an aggressive "soul-winning" church.  They sell heaven, and tell people that they are "saved" merely because they have said a prayer.  This is not the Christianity of the New Testament.
I know that the comments were in jest above, but it is a tragedy - giving false assurance to people by telling them that they are going to heaven because they said a prayer.

The gratitude of the 10 lepers (10%) is not the same thing as salvation.

I agree with your statement in principal but I do have a couple comments & a question.

In my county there are a half dozen active soul winning churches with various outreach methods.
If you go to any of the 40 or so more liberal churches you are likely to find people saved through the efforts of the aggressive outreach churches but now attending the other churches. In my experience fundamental baptist churches spend a lot of time and effort getting new converts and even getting them to church but for many reasons their not very good at keeping them. IFB churches can be pushy, demanding, unorganized and even down right mean. This is not a great formula for growth.

I think the emphasis should be on lives changed & people helped & spiritual growth. Salvation is just the first part of that process.

Now for my question, clearly conviction, belief and sincerity are essential components of salvation but beyond that it is just about believing with all your heart and asking God to save you.
Acts 16:30-33 & John 3

It's kinda simple

No. Yes, the message is simple but the part where people actually seeing themselves as deserving of hell is very very very difficult or repentance, repentance is a change of mind about your sin, that's the difficult part, agreeing that you need to think differently about your sin.

Message simple yes, but your part? No, not easy.

In modern America, it is hard for people to see themselves as they sinners they are.  We think that we're "pretty good".  We need to stop pushing to hard for people to say a prayer.  A true encounter with the living God is a life-changing event, and we have been far too quick to call someone "saved".

Aw, man! Are you telling me Jesus did it wrong?
Peter and the other disciples  too?
The apostle Paul???

When will you be able to rewrite Acts  16  like it should  be so we all can be assured the Philippian jailor and his house were truly saved?



Now, I am NOT for what some of you call "easy believism". I am thorough when I go through a version of the Romans Road. I will NOT even go into the "prayer" unless I believe the Holy Spirit wants me to do so, but c'mon.  Some of you post as though you seem to think you're better at God's work than God himself is.

When Jesus did it, if I'm not mistaken, all He did was say, Follow me.

And in Acts he said, What must I do to be saved?

Again, as my pastor friend did, he goes through entire message allow them to stop him and ask any and all questions and at the end, he stops and waits for there response.

 

[Jim Jones]

John 6:44

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:

Jesus' prayer?

 

[16KJV11]

After reading this thread, my heart really bleeds for you all.  Think I'll go out and kill myself because of all the abject wickedness that was infused into me at HAC. :'(

 

[Walt]

To this day, I still remember a visitor coming to fbch with a friend of mine. This friend was showing him around and I heard him say that they baptized over 10,000 people the year before. He just looked around and asked, "Where are they?"

Ten lepers were healed yet only one of them returned to thank the Saviour.
I knew you were waiting for that one! 

On a serious note, I'm tired of churches that push hard for "soul-winning" use verses like this to justify their appalling numbers; thousands saved per year, while the church grows by 10 people.  It is a travesty, and yet they congratulate themselves on being an aggressive "soul-winning" church.  They sell heaven, and tell people that they are "saved" merely because they have said a prayer.  This is not the Christianity of the New Testament.
I know that the comments were in jest above, but it is a tragedy - giving false assurance to people by telling them that they are going to heaven because they said a prayer.

The gratitude of the 10 lepers (10%) is not the same thing as salvation.

I agree with your statement in principal but I do have a couple comments & a question.

In my county there are a half dozen active soul winning churches with various outreach methods.
If you go to any of the 40 or so more liberal churches you are likely to find people saved through the efforts of the aggressive outreach churches but now attending the other churches. In my experience fundamental baptist churches spend a lot of time and effort getting new converts and even getting them to church but for many reasons their not very good at keeping them. IFB churches can be pushy, demanding, unorganized and even down right mean. This is not a great formula for growth.

I think the emphasis should be on lives changed & people helped & spiritual growth. Salvation is just the first part of that process.

Now for my question, clearly conviction, belief and sincerity are essential components of salvation but beyond that it is just about believing with all your heart and asking God to save you.
Acts 16:30-33 & John 3

It's kinda simple

No. Yes, the message is simple but the part where people actually seeing themselves as deserving of hell is very very very difficult or repentance, repentance is a change of mind about your sin, that's the difficult part, agreeing that you need to think differently about your sin.

Message simple yes, but your part? No, not easy.

In modern America, it is hard for people to see themselves as they sinners they are.  We think that we're "pretty good".  We need to stop pushing to hard for people to say a prayer.  A true encounter with the living God is a life-changing event, and we have been far too quick to call someone "saved".

Aw, man! Are you telling me Jesus did it wrong?
Peter and the other disciples  too?
The apostle Paul???

When will you be able to rewrite Acts  16  like it should  be so we all can be assured the Philippian jailor and his house were truly saved?



Now, I am NOT for what some of you call "easy believism". I am thorough when I go through a version of the Romans Road. I will NOT even go into the "prayer" unless I believe the Holy Spirit wants me to do so, but c'mon.  Some of you post as though you seem to think you're better at God's work than God himself is.

* sigh *

This is why I noted my remarks with "in modern America"; non-religious people may not know what sin is, and Catholic people have entirely different meanings for "saved", "grace", and "sin".

 

[Jim Jones]

JH was wrong.

 

[Matthew1323]

To this day, I still remember a visitor coming to fbch with a friend of mine. This friend was showing him around and I heard him say that they baptized over 10,000 people the year before. He just looked around and asked, "Where are they?"

Ten lepers were healed yet only one of them returned to thank the Saviour.
I knew you were waiting for that one! 

On a serious note, I'm tired of churches that push hard for "soul-winning" use verses like this to justify their appalling numbers; thousands saved per year, while the church grows by 10 people.  It is a travesty, and yet they congratulate themselves on being an aggressive "soul-winning" church.  They sell heaven, and tell people that they are "saved" merely because they have said a prayer.  This is not the Christianity of the New Testament.
I know that the comments were in jest above, but it is a tragedy - giving false assurance to people by telling them that they are going to heaven because they said a prayer.

The gratitude of the 10 lepers (10%) is not the same thing as salvation.

I agree with your statement in principal but I do have a couple comments & a question.

In my county there are a half dozen active soul winning churches with various outreach methods.
If you go to any of the 40 or so more liberal churches you are likely to find people saved through the efforts of the aggressive outreach churches but now attending the other churches. In my experience fundamental baptist churches spend a lot of time and effort getting new converts and even getting them to church but for many reasons their not very good at keeping them. IFB churches can be pushy, demanding, unorganized and even down right mean. This is not a great formula for growth.

I think the emphasis should be on lives changed & people helped & spiritual growth. Salvation is just the first part of that process.

Now for my question, clearly conviction, belief and sincerity are essential components of salvation but beyond that it is just about believing with all your heart and asking God to save you.
Acts 16:30-33 & John 3

It's kinda simple

No. Yes, the message is simple but the part where people actually seeing themselves as deserving of hell is very very very difficult or repentance, repentance is a change of mind about your sin, that's the difficult part, agreeing that you need to think differently about your sin.

Message simple yes, but your part? No, not easy.

In modern America, it is hard for people to see themselves as they sinners they are.  We think that we're "pretty good".  We need to stop pushing to hard for people to say a prayer.  A true encounter with the living God is a life-changing event, and we have been far too quick to call someone "saved".

Aw, man! Are you telling me Jesus did it wrong?
Peter and the other disciples  too?
The apostle Paul???

When will you be able to rewrite Acts  16  like it should  be so we all can be assured the Philippian jailor and his house were truly saved?



Now, I am NOT for what some of you call "easy believism". I am thorough when I go through a version of the Romans Road. I will NOT even go into the "prayer" unless I believe the Holy Spirit wants me to do so, but c'mon.  Some of you post as though you seem to think you're better at God's work than God himself is.

I seriously doubt that the disciples used a version of the Roman's Road in the book of Acts. That may be part of the problem when we try to recreate some of the biblical examples concerning salvation!

 

[Matthew1323]

After reading this thread, my heart really bleeds for you all.  Think I'll go out and kill myself because of all the abject wickedness that was infused into me at HAC. :'(

No need for such bi-polar reactions to what truths you may or may not have been taught in the past.

We act as if we will be able to stand before our Lord one day and point at some other human's teachings, as if that will be good enough to get us a free pass into heaven. I guess you can tell the Lord, "Preacher taught us that way!" Though that may be true, I doubt that excuse will override the terrible consequences of being wrong!

We all have a responsibility to continue to learn and grow in life.