I went to church and a rock concert broke out.

[ALAYMAN]

I think I've told of this experience on here before, but I'm getting ever more forgetful, so here goes (again )....


I went intentionally to a Contemporary Mega church while on Florida vacation not long ago.  I didn't go in order to wag my finger,  but to try to give such churches a fair hearing on their style of worship.  We always attend churches of like faith (ie, conservative IFB) while on vacation, but I decided to step outside of the box.  The message wasn't too bad.  It was a little predictable, and somewhat canned, but solid theologically, and helpful.  The music, on the other hand, was not as bad as you described (not a full out rock concert) but the volume was so loud, and the instruments drowned out the vocals to the extent that I got nothing out of it.  No matter what genre of music I listen to I MUST be able to hear the lyrics in order to enjoy the art.  I suppose that is why I gravitate towards folk music, as opposed to thrash metal.

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

The music, on the other hand, was not as bad as you described (not a full out rock concert) but the volume was so loud, and the instruments drowned out the vocals to the extent that I got nothing out of it.

One of the problems as I see it is the morphing of instrumental music from being secondary to the singing (accompaniment) to being primary with the singing being relegated to secondary importance.

We have a "Traditional" service which my wife and I attend, but even then the "music minister" is at the piano with the "worship team" at microphones with nobody behind the pulpit leading the congregational singing. And the "music minister" plays the piano so loudly, and with such an over emphasis on the bass/beat that the melody is lost in the noise.

But he is a young man, around 30, and has probably never been in an actual traditional service with traditional music sung in the traditional manner. It is our job to teach the young men, even those in positions of leadership.

 

[Fresh Air]

Nevermind

What he said...

 

[Fresh Air]

Of course others equate CCM to demonic anthems, and that's not a reasonable position.

Funny. It sure is reasonable to ethnomusicologist and Grateful Dead drummer Mickey Hart and author Michael Ventura to name just two that come to mind... It's also pretty reasonable to the Haitians and the West Africans. But, hey, what do they know...

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Of course others equate CCM to demonic anthems, and that's not a reasonable position.

Funny. It sure is reasonable to ethnomusicologist and Grateful Dead drummer Mickey Hart and author Michael Ventura to name just two that come to mind... It's also pretty reasonable to the Haitians and the West Africans. But, hey, what do they know...

I'm beginning to hear that long snake moan. 

 

[Walt]

Doctrinal truth is pretty clear, and for a given church, a pretty objective measurement.

Walt, it would help immensely if you would define your terms.

Identifying the "doctrinal truth" you appeal to would be nice as well.

Agreed, but "doctrinal truth" was used by T-Bone in his response to how he judges a song as being acceptable or not.

I assume he meant measuring it by what the Scripture teaches, which is objective -- or, at least, far more objective than how it makes one feel.

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

Agreed, but "doctrinal truth" was used by T-Bone in his response to how he judges a song as being acceptable or not.

I assume he meant measuring it by what the Scripture teaches, which is objective -- or, at least, far more objective than how it makes one feel.

The problem obviously arises, "Whose doctrinal truth?"

Take for instance that great old hymn of the faith, "The Battle Hymn of the Republic." If you read the words you will note it is an anthem to Post Millennialism. Now, if you are Post Mil that song will be, in your opinion, "doctrinal truth." If, however, you are Pre or A Mil, not so much.

And this issue is not exclusive to traditional hymns. The same thing could be said of the CCM favorite, "Build Your Kingdom Here." It also appeals to the "doctrinal truth" of Post Millennialism.

Therefore, "doctrinal truth" is also subjective, depending on what you think "doctrinal truth" consists of.

 

[Bob H]

Julia Ward Howe, writer of the Battle Hymn was a Unitarian. Just sayin.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

"It is well with my soul" is pre-wrath (post-trib).  So if you're pre-trib, don't sing it.  It conflicts with your doctrine. 

 

[subllibrm]

Of course others equate CCM to demonic anthems, and that's not a reasonable position.

Funny. It sure is reasonable to ethnomusicologist and Grateful Dead drummer Mickey Hart and author Michael Ventura to name just two that come to mind... It's also pretty reasonable to the Haitians and the West Africans. But, hey, what do they know...

Those guys like the Gettys?

 

[FSSL]

As long as the lyrics are good, I have no issue.

 

[Ransom]

Take for instance that great old hymn of the faith, "The Battle Hymn of the Republic."

By all means take it - somewhere that it can't find its way back. It's a great old hymn of the Unitarian faith. It ain't a Christian hymn and is best left unsung.

 

[subllibrm]

Every time we devolve into one of these CCM "urinating" matches, I have the same recurring experience; the song "Climb, Climb Up Sunshine Mountain" starts running through my head.  :-\

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Why was God going to pour out His wrath and consume the nation of Israel while Moses was receiving the ten commandments?

 

[Fresh Air]

Why was God going to put out His wrath and consume the nation of Israel while Moses was receiving the ten commandments?

legalist

 

[rsc2a]

Why was God going to put out His wrath and consume the nation of Israel while Moses was receiving the ten commandments?

Because they were worshipping a cow?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why was God going to put out His wrath and consume the nation of Israel while Moses was receiving the ten commandments?

Because they were worshipping a cow?

It was that ungodly DANCING and CELEBRATING.... when they should have been somber and reflecting upon on just how special the cow was to them!!! You know Jehovah doesn't mind sharing His Glory with a cow. He just doesn't like the rock music.

 

[Ransom]

Why was God going to put out His wrath and consume the nation of Israel while Moses was receiving the ten commandments?

Because from up on Mount Sinai, Joshua mistook the noise of music in the camp for the noise of war, and the modern equivalent of war is professional sports, and they always play loud rock music on sports broadcasts, and therefore rock music is the noise of war, and that's how we know the Israelites were playing rock music in the camp?

(This is an actual argument someone once used on the old FFF. At the time I rolled my eyes so hard at the "modern equivalent of war" part that I gave my brain a hernia. It was a stupid argument then, and it's still stupid now.)

 

[subllibrm]

Why was God going to put out His wrath and consume the nation of Israel while Moses was receiving the ten commandments?

Because they were worshipping a cow?

Hey don't confuse the issue with facts.

 

[subllibrm]

Why was God going to put out His wrath and consume the nation of Israel while Moses was receiving the ten commandments?

Because they were worshipping a cow?

It was that ungodly DANCING and CELEBRATING.... when they should have been somber and reflecting upon on just how special the cow was to them!!! You know Jehovah doesn't mind sharing His Glory with a cow. He just doesn't like the rock music.

That is true. Had they walked in the garden alone with the cow while the dew was still on the roses there would have been no problem.