I went to church and a rock concert broke out.

[HeDied4U]

<just need to rant for a few minutes if you'll indulge me...>

I know it's all the rage in contemporary services, and even in the church I attend, but when did "worship" become synonymous with rock music?

Or put another way...when did it happen that the music tuned me out instead of "tuning me in' to the Holy Spirit's presence?

Now I'll be the first to admit that I prefer a good praise and worship song over hymns just about 9 times out of 10, but when my church (or a church I may be visiting with a friend) opens its P&W segment with a rock opera complete with swirling lights and fog, that's when I nowadays tune out and find it very hard to tune back in once the pastor begins his sermon.

I'm wondering if my growing distaste for rock based worship in a sign that either 1) I'm getting older (will be 51 later this week OUCH) or 2) I'm maturing as a Christian, or maybe even 3) a bit of both.

This kind of reminds me when I finally "had enough" of the charismatic movement back in the late 90's. Was at a service alone (my wife was home sick but insisted that I go), when the pastors (yes, it was one of "those" with a husband/wife pastoral team) stood up and practically hollered, "we're about to have us a Holy Ghost fit," and the almost the whole place went berserk. Well, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. I beat a hasty retreat and have never set foot in another charismatic/pentacostal church.

I'm beginning to wonder if my disdain for "rock" music in church will lead me in the same direction. Some Sunday evenings, I just get the urge to walk out during the rock concert, er, I mean the P&W segment. Is that a reason to begin a new church search?

Anyway, this has been brewing for a while, but more so since yesterday, and just felt the need to vent a little bit. Thanks for letting me do so.

 

[Walt]

I think that what you are describing is the logical conclusion of church using CCM music

 

[T-Bone]

I think that what you are describing is the logical conclusion of church using CCM music

Too broad a brush...CCM is wide and varied, much I would not consider worship music, while there is much that is wonderful & meaningful, without turning into rock.

 

[Walt]

I think that what you are describing is the logical conclusion of church using CCM music

Too broad a brush...CCM is wide and varied, much I would not consider worship music, while there is much that is wonderful & meaningful, without turning into rock.

Quite possibly; at the same time, several churches that begin allowing CCM eventually become full-blown rock shows.

If you allow CCM, when does it become too "edgy"? Where does one draw the line?  What happens when the P&W team begin to "push the envelope"?

 

[T-Bone]

I think that what you are describing is the logical conclusion of church using CCM music

Too broad a brush...CCM is wide and varied, much I would not consider worship music, while there is much that is wonderful & meaningful, without turning into rock.

Quite possibly; at the same time, several churches that begin allowing CCM eventually become full-blown rock shows.

If you allow CCM, when does it become too "edgy"? Where does one draw the line?  What happens when the P&W team begin to "push the envelope"?

You are certainly right about some church going overboard...but as the saying goes no need to throw the baby out with the bath water .... We evaluate all of our music for worship whether it comes from CCM or the hymnal, as I prepare for the message so is preparation needed for worship music.  Where I believe one draws the lines is first at the place of doctrinal truth, and to quote an older lady I heard many years ago..." If it moves your feet before it touches your spirit, something is wrong".?

 

[bgwilkinson]

I think that what you are describing is the logical conclusion of church using CCM music

Too broad a brush...CCM is wide and varied, much I would not consider worship music, while there is much that is wonderful & meaningful, without turning into rock.

Quite possibly; at the same time, several churches that begin allowing CCM eventually become full-blown rock shows.

If you allow CCM, when does it become too "edgy"? Where does one draw the line?  What happens when the P&W team begin to "push the envelope"?

You are certainly right about some church going overboard...but as the saying goes no need to throw the baby out with the bath water .... We evaluate all of our music for worship whether it comes from CCM or the hymnal, as I prepare for the message so is preparation needed for worship music.  Where I believe one draws the lines is first at the place of doctrinal truth, and to quote an older lady I heard many years ago..." If it moves your feet before it touches your spirit, something is wrong".?

So God is wrong when He says this?

Psa 149:3  Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

And just so we wouldn't think he made a mistake.

Psa 150:4  Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

If the older lady is right she should tell the LORD so he can fix the Bible.

Or does the dance come from the Spirit first before it goes to the feet?

 

[subllibrm]

CCM and obscenity:

I can't define them but I know them when I see (hear) it.  :



**************

As to the OP, I would also struggle with such as described. I know that I have shared this before but it bears repeating.

I was in a praise band with a good friend. He is something of a frustrated wanna-be. Over the years he had formed and played with many bands. He is a very good musician with a lot of experience and even some formal schooling. He has taught many young people to play guitar. A number of them have gone on to experience the types of things he would have liked to do in music. I talked to him a month or so ago and he was working with yet another beginner. A teen who wanted to learn and participate in the music at their church.

Okay, so we were at a practice/rehearsal for an upcoming evening service. Our church pianist was helping us out on keyboard in that particular iteration of "the band". Jim has been working on a song and wants us to learn the new arrangement he has put together. He runs us through the plan which includes a break where he will play a solo that he has developed. So we play the song and he plays his solo along the way. We get done and he asked what we thought. She says "it was nice and you played it well but what is everyone else supposed to do while you are showing off?"

As a (former) musician, I have adopted her philosophy when it comes to worship music. Our job is to assist the congregation in bringing praise and adoration to the King not ourselves. Not unlike an umpire or referee, you know you have done your job well when no one notices your presence.

So no fog machines or laser lights shows in church for me thank you very much.

 

[Walt]

I think that what you are describing is the logical conclusion of church using CCM music

Too broad a brush...CCM is wide and varied, much I would not consider worship music, while there is much that is wonderful & meaningful, without turning into rock.

Quite possibly; at the same time, several churches that begin allowing CCM eventually become full-blown rock shows.

If you allow CCM, when does it become too "edgy"? Where does one draw the line?  What happens when the P&W team begin to "push the envelope"?

You are certainly right about some church going overboard...but as the saying goes no need to throw the baby out with the bath water .... We evaluate all of our music for worship whether it comes from CCM or the hymnal, as I prepare for the message so is preparation needed for worship music.  Where I believe one draws the lines is first at the place of doctrinal truth, and to quote an older lady I heard many years ago..." If it moves your feet before it touches your spirit, something is wrong".?

Doctrinal truth is pretty clear, and for a given church, a pretty objective measurement.

However, how it affects one seems to be a rather subjective test...  just sayin' 

 

[subllibrm]

Doctrinal truth is pretty clear, and for a given church, a pretty objective measurement.

Walt, it would help immensely if you would define your terms.

Identifying the "doctrinal truth" you appeal to would be nice as well.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

<just need to rant for a few minutes if you'll indulge me...>

I know it's all the rage in contemporary services, and even in the church I attend, but when did "worship" become synonymous with rock music?

Or put another way...when did it happen that the music tuned me out instead of "tuning me in' to the Holy Spirit's presence?

Now I'll be the first to admit that I prefer a good praise and worship song over hymns just about 9 times out of 10, but when my church (or a church I may be visiting with a friend) opens its P&W segment with a rock opera complete with swirling lights and fog, that's when I nowadays tune out and find it very hard to tune back in once the pastor begins his sermon.

I'm wondering if my growing distaste for rock based worship in a sign that either 1) I'm getting older (will be 51 later this week OUCH) or 2) I'm maturing as a Christian, or maybe even 3) a bit of both.

This kind of reminds me when I finally "had enough" of the charismatic movement back in the late 90's. Was at a service alone (my wife was home sick but insisted that I go), when the pastors (yes, it was one of "those" with a husband/wife pastoral team) stood up and practically hollered, "we're about to have us a Holy Ghost fit," and the almost the whole place went berserk. Well, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. I beat a hasty retreat and have never set foot in another charismatic/pentacostal church.

I'm beginning to wonder if my disdain for "rock" music in church will lead me in the same direction. Some Sunday evenings, I just get the urge to walk out during the rock concert, er, I mean the P&W segment. Is that a reason to begin a new church search?

Anyway, this has been brewing for a while, but more so since yesterday, and just felt the need to vent a little bit. Thanks for letting me do so.

I'm with you on this. There was a time when I was able to worship in such an environment but have found myself no longer able to do so. I've got no issue with it if someone else uses such in their worship service but it is no longer my particular cup of tea. For me, the turning point is when it becomes about the performance rather than the worship environment for each individual. I kinda feel if I can close my eyes and remain in prayer during the song, it hasn't crossed that line but when the music distracts from my doing that, it has become a little too much for me.

 

[subllibrm]

You don't want the music to whip the people into a frenzy. That is the preacher's job during the sermon.  8)

 

[Smellin Coffee]

You don't want the music to whip the people into a frenzy. That is the preacher's job during the sermon.  8)

 

[praise_yeshua]

There is really a simple answer to this issue and it happens no matter what genre of music is being used or when there isn't any music whatsoever.

Its called....... "Pretending"....

I'm a firm believer that you have to Praise God when you feel like and when you don't. However, I'm not going to pretend I don't feel like it. It called "pretense". Its called "working it up". Its called trying to pretend everything is right when everything is wrong. In other words. It based on a lie.

 

[subllibrm]

There is really a simple answer to this issue and it happens no matter what genre of music is being used or when there isn't any music whatsoever.

Its called....... "Pretending"....

I'm a firm believer that you have to Praise God when you feel like and when you don't. However, I'm not going to pretend I don't feel like it. It called "pretense". Its called "working it up". Its called trying to pretend everything is right when everything is wrong. In other words. It based on a lie.

Other than God (who knows all truth) the number one person we lie to is our self.

That said, it is possible to be honest in worship in the middle of a deep valley of darkness. Scripture is full of examples of God's children crying out in pain and suffering (often self inflicted) knowing He is the only source for restoration and healing. That is itself is an act of worship. The trouble comes when we hide the darkness and pretend all is light.

So take the "happy" mask off, God sees through it anyway. The only ones that you may be fooling are the others in the congregation and you aren't there to worship them.

 

[HeDied4U]

<just need to rant for a few minutes if you'll indulge me...>

I know it's all the rage in contemporary services, and even in the church I attend, but when did "worship" become synonymous with rock music?

Or put another way...when did it happen that the music tuned me out instead of "tuning me in' to the Holy Spirit's presence?

Now I'll be the first to admit that I prefer a good praise and worship song over hymns just about 9 times out of 10, but when my church (or a church I may be visiting with a friend) opens its P&W segment with a rock opera complete with swirling lights and fog, that's when I nowadays tune out and find it very hard to tune back in once the pastor begins his sermon.

I'm wondering if my growing distaste for rock based worship in a sign that either 1) I'm getting older (will be 51 later this week OUCH) or 2) I'm maturing as a Christian, or maybe even 3) a bit of both.

This kind of reminds me when I finally "had enough" of the charismatic movement back in the late 90's. Was at a service alone (my wife was home sick but insisted that I go), when the pastors (yes, it was one of "those" with a husband/wife pastoral team) stood up and practically hollered, "we're about to have us a Holy Ghost fit," and the almost the whole place went berserk. Well, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. I beat a hasty retreat and have never set foot in another charismatic/pentacostal church.

I'm beginning to wonder if my disdain for "rock" music in church will lead me in the same direction. Some Sunday evenings, I just get the urge to walk out during the rock concert, er, I mean the P&W segment. Is that a reason to begin a new church search?

Anyway, this has been brewing for a while, but more so since yesterday, and just felt the need to vent a little bit. Thanks for letting me do so.

I'm with you on this. There was a time when I was able to worship in such an environment but have found myself no longer able to do so. I've got no issue with it if someone else uses such in their worship service but it is no longer my particular cup of tea. For me, the turning point is when it becomes about the performance rather than the worship environment for each individual. I kinda feel if I can close my eyes and remain in prayer during the song, it hasn't crossed that line but when the music distracts from my doing that, it has become a little too much for me.

Yep, that's exactly how I feel!!

 

[T-Bone]

I think that what you are describing is the logical conclusion of church using CCM music

Too broad a brush...CCM is wide and varied, much I would not consider worship music, while there is much that is wonderful & meaningful, without turning into rock.

Quite possibly; at the same time, several churches that begin allowing CCM eventually become full-blown rock shows.

If you allow CCM, when does it become too "edgy"? Where does one draw the line?  What happens when the P&W team begin to "push the envelope"?

You are certainly right about some church going overboard...but as the saying goes no need to throw the baby out with the bath water .... We evaluate all of our music for worship whether it comes from CCM or the hymnal, as I prepare for the message so is preparation needed for worship music.  Where I believe one draws the lines is first at the place of doctrinal truth, and to quote an older lady I heard many years ago..." If it moves your feet before it touches your spirit, something is wrong".?

So God is wrong when He says this?

Psa 149:3  Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

And just so we wouldn't think he made a mistake.

Psa 150:4  Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

If the older lady is right she should tell the LORD so he can fix the Bible.

Or does the dance come from the Spirit first before it goes to the feet?

Always the Spirit first...one can be just as carnal by sitting and doing nothing.

 

[Bob H]

Nevermind

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

What all too many people who wish to engage in this discussion seem to fail to understand is the meaning of "contemporary Christian music."

It doesn't mean new, or modern. "Contemporary" means "at the same time as."

Contemporary Christian music is a style of music that is popular in the world "at the same time as" it is popular in the church.

Very often, Senior Saints, such as me, have great difficulty accepting much of modern contemporary Christian music. Quite often Music Ministers, especially young ones, assume this is a mere preference and try to get the Senior Saints more involved in contemporary music.

The problem is that in many cases it is not just a preference. I am a child of the 1940s. I grew up in the 1950s and was an adult in the 1960s. I remember in 1954 when a new type of music called ?rock music"? was introduced by a young man named Jerry Lee Lewis. Mr. Lewis had been raised in a very conservative Pentecostal church and the music style he emulated (mostly southern blues) was preached against in the church he grew up in and was labeled ?the devil's music."? In fact he felt so guilty about performing that type music, in his later career he switched to country western music to salve his conscience.

A couple years later along came another young man named Elvis Presley and popularized rock music to an entire generation of young people. When Elvis appeared on television on the Ed Sullivan Show the censors only allowed him to be videoed from the waist up as they considered his leg movements to be obscene.

In about 1960 this popularity was reinforced by four young men from Liverpool, England, called The Beatles who incorporated the new drug culture into the rock music genre.

I was taught, as a young man approaching adulthood, that such music was, in fact, ?the devil's music." Now, of course, today I know that is not true. But when I hear that type of music, the little voice in the back of my head which is the result of my background, education, and upbringing, starts to nag me about listening to "the devil's music" and the natural thing for me to do is draw back, away from that music and try to distance myself from it. And I have no control over that reaction. It is part of the background and upbringing that makes me, well, me!

Music is to draw us near unto God in worship and thanksgiving. But for many of my generation exactly the opposite occurs. When we hear music with many of the characteristics of rock, and instrumentals that emphasize the loud bass beat over the melody, it is our natural reaction to draw back from that music.

And that is why so many of the senior saints attend traditional services as opposed to contemporary services. The one draws us near to God and the other repels us. It is not the fault of the music. It is us. It is a reaction that is part of our very souls.

All we ask is that the younger saints respect that, just as we respect the younger saints and allow them to worship with the style of music that draws them nearer to God.

 

[Escapee]

<just need to rant for a few minutes if you'll indulge me...>

I know it's all the rage in contemporary services, and even in the church I attend, but when did "worship" become synonymous with rock music?

Or put another way...when did it happen that the music tuned me out instead of "tuning me in' to the Holy Spirit's presence?

Now I'll be the first to admit that I prefer a good praise and worship song over hymns just about 9 times out of 10, but when my church (or a church I may be visiting with a friend) opens its P&W segment with a rock opera complete with swirling lights and fog, that's when I nowadays tune out and find it very hard to tune back in once the pastor begins his sermon.

I'm wondering if my growing distaste for rock based worship in a sign that either 1) I'm getting older (will be 51 later this week OUCH) or 2) I'm maturing as a Christian, or maybe even 3) a bit of both.

This kind of reminds me when I finally "had enough" of the charismatic movement back in the late 90's. Was at a service alone (my wife was home sick but insisted that I go), when the pastors (yes, it was one of "those" with a husband/wife pastoral team) stood up and practically hollered, "we're about to have us a Holy Ghost fit," and the almost the whole place went berserk. Well, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. I beat a hasty retreat and have never set foot in another charismatic/pentacostal church.

I'm beginning to wonder if my disdain for "rock" music in church will lead me in the same direction. Some Sunday evenings, I just get the urge to walk out during the rock concert, er, I mean the P&W segment. Is that a reason to begin a new church search?

Anyway, this has been brewing for a while, but more so since yesterday, and just felt the need to vent a little bit. Thanks for letting me do so.

Since when did worship sound like bar rooms tunes?  Said everyone in the 1600's!

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Thomas Cassidy]All we ask is that the younger saints respect that, just as we respect the younger saints and allow them to worship with the style of music that draws them nearer to God.[/quote]

That's all that some ask. And it's a fair and reasonable request.

Of course others equate CCM to demonic anthems, and that's not a reasonable position.