Iain Paisley, R.I.P.

I'm sure the families of the 1800 killed by The IRA will take comfort in the fact that the Pope is a really nice guy.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
I'm sure the families of the 1800 killed by The IRA will take comfort in the fact that the Pope is a really nice guy.
Click to expand...

The current pope? A previous pope? All popes?

And the IRA sees him (them) as commander in chief? And he claims that status and role?

No wonder IFB folk are so fixated on being independent from each other (even when they aren't). Plausible deniability and all that. The pope gets no such slack. He knows all and and directs all. Every Catholic in the world acts only on orders from the Vatican. Did I mention preppers, truthers and birthers?
 
subllibrm said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
I'm sure the families of the 1800 killed by The IRA will take comfort in the fact that the Pope is a really nice guy.
Click to expand...

The current pope? A previous pope? All popes?

And the IRA sees him (them) as commander in chief? And he claims that status and role?

No wonder IFB folk are so fixated on being independent from each other (even when they aren't). Plausible deniability and all that. The pope gets no such slack. He knows all and and directs all. Every Catholic in the world acts only on orders from the Vatican. Did I mention preppers, truthers and birthers?
Click to expand...

I assume that all Popes, past, present and future have been good guys. I assume that only from reading this thread.

The IRA were Catholic, and I assume as such, the Pope was, to them, the vicar of Christ.

I like the way you work in IFB's!
 
Y'all need to understand something. The fight wasn't about the superiority of Catholic or protestant. The fight was over a united Ireland. The British did their best to exterminate the Irish. This went on for several hundred years. Ireland finally won her independence in the 1920's. All but a few northern counties that chose to remain loyal. After the Jacobite Rebellion in Scotland in 1745-46. The British did their best to destroy the Scottish culture. The lands that had belonged to the clans were confiscated and the people displaced. any were Resettled to Northern Ireland in an attempt to replace the native Irish. These were the Scotch Irish many of whom later settled the Southern Appalachians. The Scots happen to be Presbyterian. The British, Anglican. The native Irish, Catholic. For some reason known but to God, the Scots remained loyal to the British and thus, became the enemy of the native Irish who saw both the Scots and the British as invaders in land where they were neither wanted nor welcome.

Paisley egged the confrontations on. They would have ended several years sooner if he had not been in the picture. Today it's peaceful. Both sides realized that nobody was winning. The women of both factions put their feet down and said, enough!

This fight spilled over into the US. During the War Between the States the Southern culture was Scottish, English and protestant. The North was Irish Catholic and English Puritan cultures.

As for me, I have nothing against Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians or Methodists. They have their beliefs and I have mine. About the only people that I have a real problem with are Muslims and that's because they want to kill me.

ChuckBob
 
ChuckBob said:
Y'all need to understand something. The fight wasn't about the superiority of Catholic or protestant. The fight was over a united Ireland. The British did their best to exterminate the Irish. This went on for several hundred years. Ireland finally won her independence in the 1920's. All but a few northern counties that chose to remain loyal. After the Jacobite Rebellion in Scotland in 1745-46. The British did their best to destroy the Scottish culture. The lands that had belonged to the clans were confiscated and the people displaced. any were Resettled to Northern Ireland in an attempt to replace the native Irish. These were the Scotch Irish many of whom later settled the Southern Appalachians. The Scots happen to be Presbyterian. The British, Anglican. The native Irish, Catholic. For some reason known but to God, the Scots remained loyal to the British and thus, became the enemy of the native Irish who saw both the Scots and the British as invaders in land where they were neither wanted nor welcome.

Paisley egged the confrontations on. They would have ended several years sooner if he had not been in the picture. Today it's peaceful. Both sides realized that nobody was winning. The women of both factions put their feet down and said, enough!

This fight spilled over into the US. During the War Between the States the Southern culture was Scottish, English and protestant. The North was Irish Catholic and English Puritan cultures.

As for me, I have nothing against Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians or Methodists. They have their beliefs and I have mine. About the only people that I have a real problem with are Muslims and that's because they want to kill me.

ChuckBob
Click to expand...

Interestingly, these land disputes are pointed out as proof that "religion" causes war. The truth is that the leadership used religion to stoke the angry fires of the people. Paisley was either intentionally complicit or was a total dupe to use his role to foment anger and strife.

This continues today in so many ways. And it need not be a "shootin' war". The militant mentality prevalent in so many wings of Christendom cause division that goes directly against the peace and unity Jesus prayed for in John 17. And the atheist/humanist looks on and says "see, I told you so".

That or it is all the pope's fault.  ::)
 
ChuckBob said:
Y'all need to understand something. The fight wasn't about the superiority of Catholic or protestant. The fight was over a united Ireland. The British did their best to exterminate the Irish. This went on for several hundred years. Ireland finally won her independence in the 1920's. All but a few northern counties that chose to remain loyal. After the Jacobite Rebellion in Scotland in 1745-46. The British did their best to destroy the Scottish culture. The lands that had belonged to the clans were confiscated and the people displaced. any were Resettled to Northern Ireland in an attempt to replace the native Irish. These were the Scotch Irish many of whom later settled the Southern Appalachians. The Scots happen to be Presbyterian. The British, Anglican. The native Irish, Catholic. For some reason known but to God, the Scots remained loyal to the British and thus, became the enemy of the native Irish who saw both the Scots and the British as invaders in land where they were neither wanted nor welcome.

Paisley egged the confrontations on. They would have ended several years sooner if he had not been in the picture. Today it's peaceful. Both sides realized that nobody was winning. The women of both factions put their feet down and said, enough!

This fight spilled over into the US. During the War Between the States the Southern culture was Scottish, English and protestant. The North was Irish Catholic and English Puritan cultures.

As for me, I have nothing against Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians or Methodists. They have their beliefs and I have mine. About the only people that I have a real problem with are Muslims and that's because they want to kill me.

ChuckBob
Click to expand...

Things sure get clear through the lens of history.
Thanks for this brief review.
 
Where's Itinerant Preacher? Surely he's not conceding the field.

ChuckBob
 
ChuckBob said:
Y'all need to understand something. The fight wasn't about the superiority of Catholic or protestant. The fight was over a united Ireland. The British did their best to exterminate the Irish. This went on for several hundred years. Ireland finally won her independence in the 1920's. All but a few northern counties that chose to remain loyal. After the Jacobite Rebellion in Scotland in 1745-46. The British did their best to destroy the Scottish culture. The lands that had belonged to the clans were confiscated and the people displaced. any were Resettled to Northern Ireland in an attempt to replace the native Irish. These were the Scotch Irish many of whom later settled the Southern Appalachians. The Scots happen to be Presbyterian. The British, Anglican. The native Irish, Catholic. For some reason known but to God, the Scots remained loyal to the British and thus, became the enemy of the native Irish who saw both the Scots and the British as invaders in land where they were neither wanted nor welcome.

Paisley egged the confrontations on. They would have ended several years sooner if he had not been in the picture. Today it's peaceful. Both sides realized that nobody was winning. The women of both factions put their feet down and said, enough!

This fight spilled over into the US. During the War Between the States the Southern culture was Scottish, English and protestant. The North was Irish Catholic and English Puritan cultures.

As for me, I have nothing against Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians or Methodists. They have their beliefs and I have mine. About the only people that I have a real problem with are Muslims and that's because they want to kill me.

ChuckBob
Click to expand...

You are right but there is the rest of the story.
The issues at stake were political, with the conflict between Norther Ireland's two main communities. Unionists and loyalists, who are mostly Ulster Protestants, generally want Northern Ireland to remain within the United Kingdom. Irish nationalists and republicans, who are mostly Catholics, generally want it to leave the United Kingdom and join a united Ireland. The conflict was long and bloody, and Paisley was hardly the antagonist. 60% of the deaths were at the hands of the Republicans (Catholics).

In 2007, Ian Paisley and Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness shared power as first  Minister and deputy First Minister, respectively.

To say that Paisley 'prolonged the conflict' is laughable, not to mention IRA propaganda, and is an insult to Gerry Adams!
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
ChuckBob said:
Y'all need to understand something. The fight wasn't about the superiority of Catholic or protestant. The fight was over a united Ireland. The British did their best to exterminate the Irish. This went on for several hundred years. Ireland finally won her independence in the 1920's. All but a few northern counties that chose to remain loyal. After the Jacobite Rebellion in Scotland in 1745-46. The British did their best to destroy the Scottish culture. The lands that had belonged to the clans were confiscated and the people displaced. any were Resettled to Northern Ireland in an attempt to replace the native Irish. These were the Scotch Irish many of whom later settled the Southern Appalachians. The Scots happen to be Presbyterian. The British, Anglican. The native Irish, Catholic. For some reason known but to God, the Scots remained loyal to the British and thus, became the enemy of the native Irish who saw both the Scots and the British as invaders in land where they were neither wanted nor welcome.

Paisley egged the confrontations on. They would have ended several years sooner if he had not been in the picture. Today it's peaceful. Both sides realized that nobody was winning. The women of both factions put their feet down and said, enough!

This fight spilled over into the US. During the War Between the States the Southern culture was Scottish, English and protestant. The North was Irish Catholic and English Puritan cultures.

As for me, I have nothing against Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians or Methodists. They have their beliefs and I have mine. About the only people that I have a real problem with are Muslims and that's because they want to kill me.

ChuckBob
Click to expand...

You are right but there is the rest of the story.
The issues at stake were political, with the conflict between Norther Ireland's two main communities. Unionists and loyalists, who are mostly Ulster Protestants, generally want Northern Ireland to remain within the United Kingdom. Irish nationalists and republicans, who are mostly Catholics, generally want it to leave the United Kingdom and join a united Ireland. The conflict was long and bloody, and Paisley was hardly the antagonist. 60% of the deaths were at the hands of the Republicans (Catholics).

In 2007, Ian Paisley and Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness shared power as first  Minister and deputy First Minister, respectively.

To say that Paisley 'prolonged the conflict' is laughable, not to mention IRA propaganda, and is an insult to Gerry Adams!
Click to expand...


Every time they turned around Paisley was staging a parade or stunt designed to rub the republicans nose in it. His "sermons' led to violence against women and children whose only crime was being Catholic. Was Paisley the only bad guy? Not by a long shot. He was just one of the main trouble makers.

By 2007 Paisley was so irrelevant that he could have been head mugwump of the moose lodge and it wouldn't have made an impact. He was always a buffoon. It's just that for much of his life he was a dangerous buffoon.

ChuckBob
 
ChuckBob said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
ChuckBob said:
Y'all need to understand something. The fight wasn't about the superiority of Catholic or protestant. The fight was over a united Ireland. The British did their best to exterminate the Irish. This went on for several hundred years. Ireland finally won her independence in the 1920's. All but a few northern counties that chose to remain loyal. After the Jacobite Rebellion in Scotland in 1745-46. The British did their best to destroy the Scottish culture. The lands that had belonged to the clans were confiscated and the people displaced. any were Resettled to Northern Ireland in an attempt to replace the native Irish. These were the Scotch Irish many of whom later settled the Southern Appalachians. The Scots happen to be Presbyterian. The British, Anglican. The native Irish, Catholic. For some reason known but to God, the Scots remained loyal to the British and thus, became the enemy of the native Irish who saw both the Scots and the British as invaders in land where they were neither wanted nor welcome.

Paisley egged the confrontations on. They would have ended several years sooner if he had not been in the picture. Today it's peaceful. Both sides realized that nobody was winning. The women of both factions put their feet down and said, enough!

This fight spilled over into the US. During the War Between the States the Southern culture was Scottish, English and protestant. The North was Irish Catholic and English Puritan cultures.

As for me, I have nothing against Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians or Methodists. They have their beliefs and I have mine. About the only people that I have a real problem with are Muslims and that's because they want to kill me.

ChuckBob
Click to expand...

You are right but there is the rest of the story.
The issues at stake were political, with the conflict between Norther Ireland's two main communities. Unionists and loyalists, who are mostly Ulster Protestants, generally want Northern Ireland to remain within the United Kingdom. Irish nationalists and republicans, who are mostly Catholics, generally want it to leave the United Kingdom and join a united Ireland. The conflict was long and bloody, and Paisley was hardly the antagonist. 60% of the deaths were at the hands of the Republicans (Catholics).

In 2007, Ian Paisley and Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness shared power as first  Minister and deputy First Minister, respectively.

To say that Paisley 'prolonged the conflict' is laughable, not to mention IRA propaganda, and is an insult to Gerry Adams!
Click to expand...


Every time they turned around Paisley was staging a parade or stunt designed to rub the republicans nose in it. His "sermons' led to violence against women and children whose only crime was being Catholic. Was Paisley the only bad guy? Not by a long shot. He was just one of the main trouble makers.

By 2007 Paisley was so irrelevant that he could have been head mugwump of the moose lodge and it wouldn't have made an impact. He was always a buffoon. It's just that for much of his life he was a dangerous buffoon.

ChuckBob
Click to expand...

I believe it's a matter of record that Paisley was a politician....which I have absolutely no problem with. As such, he was arguably one of the most influential people in Northern Ireland.

Being First Minister of Northern Ireland is hardly irrelevant...just the opposite, in fact. He did lose some of his political support at the end of his life, but his son Ian Paisley Jr won and I believe still holds the seat he vacated.

Just because Paisley was a Fundamentalist doesn't negate his accomplishments.
To give the devil his due doesn't add credibility to the fundy movement.
But, because he was a fundy and opposed Catholicism, he must be demonized, given no credit for any accomplishment. And at the same time the Catholics are an arm of evangelicalism and the Pope is akin to Billy Graham.

Yeah, and ISIS represents a religion of peace!
Hallelujah!
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
ChuckBob said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
ChuckBob said:
Y'all need to understand something. The fight wasn't about the superiority of Catholic or protestant. The fight was over a united Ireland. The British did their best to exterminate the Irish. This went on for several hundred years. Ireland finally won her independence in the 1920's. All but a few northern counties that chose to remain loyal. After the Jacobite Rebellion in Scotland in 1745-46. The British did their best to destroy the Scottish culture. The lands that had belonged to the clans were confiscated and the people displaced. any were Resettled to Northern Ireland in an attempt to replace the native Irish. These were the Scotch Irish many of whom later settled the Southern Appalachians. The Scots happen to be Presbyterian. The British, Anglican. The native Irish, Catholic. For some reason known but to God, the Scots remained loyal to the British and thus, became the enemy of the native Irish who saw both the Scots and the British as invaders in land where they were neither wanted nor welcome.

Paisley egged the confrontations on. They would have ended several years sooner if he had not been in the picture. Today it's peaceful. Both sides realized that nobody was winning. The women of both factions put their feet down and said, enough!

This fight spilled over into the US. During the War Between the States the Southern culture was Scottish, English and protestant. The North was Irish Catholic and English Puritan cultures.

As for me, I have nothing against Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians or Methodists. They have their beliefs and I have mine. About the only people that I have a real problem with are Muslims and that's because they want to kill me.

ChuckBob
Click to expand...

You are right but there is the rest of the story.
The issues at stake were political, with the conflict between Norther Ireland's two main communities. Unionists and loyalists, who are mostly Ulster Protestants, generally want Northern Ireland to remain within the United Kingdom. Irish nationalists and republicans, who are mostly Catholics, generally want it to leave the United Kingdom and join a united Ireland. The conflict was long and bloody, and Paisley was hardly the antagonist. 60% of the deaths were at the hands of the Republicans (Catholics).

In 2007, Ian Paisley and Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness shared power as first  Minister and deputy First Minister, respectively.

To say that Paisley 'prolonged the conflict' is laughable, not to mention IRA propaganda, and is an insult to Gerry Adams!
Click to expand...


Every time they turned around Paisley was staging a parade or stunt designed to rub the republicans nose in it. His "sermons' led to violence against women and children whose only crime was being Catholic. Was Paisley the only bad guy? Not by a long shot. He was just one of the main trouble makers.

By 2007 Paisley was so irrelevant that he could have been head mugwump of the moose lodge and it wouldn't have made an impact. He was always a buffoon. It's just that for much of his life he was a dangerous buffoon.

ChuckBob
Click to expand...

I believe it's a matter of record that Paisley was a politician....which I have absolutely no problem with. As such, he was arguably one of the most influential people in Northern Ireland.

Being First Minister of Northern Ireland is hardly irrelevant...just the opposite, in fact. He did lose some of his political support at the end of his life, but his son Ian Paisley Jr won and I believe still holds the seat he vacated.

Just because Paisley was a Fundamentalist doesn't negate his accomplishments.
To give the devil his due doesn't add credibility to the fundy movement.
But, because he was a fundy and opposed Catholicism, he must be demonized, given no credit for any accomplishment. And at the same time the Catholics are an arm of evangelicalism and the Pope is akin to Billy Graham.

Yeah, and ISIS represents a religion of peace!
Hallelujah!
Click to expand...

After the war ended Paisley had to mellow out to keep involved. I could care less if he was a fundamentalist. He was a Presbyterian as were most of the Scots and I really don't think of them as fundamentalists.

Oh, ISIS must be destroyed for the security of the free world. It's 1939 all over again. What will we do?

ChuckBob
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
But, because he was a fundy and opposed Catholicism, he must be demonized, given no credit for any accomplishment. And at the same time the Catholics are an arm of evangelicalism and the Pope is akin to Billy Graham.
Click to expand...

So being against Paisley's politics is equal to being pro-Catholic theologically? I hope you didn't hurt yourself making that leap.
 
Sorry tarheel.... but chuckbob has it exactly right......... when it came to antagonizing violence and sponsoring bloodshed...... paisley was no different than the leaders of the ira ...... he supported murder and then passed off the deaths of innocent catholic children as "collateral damage".....and which side had the greater record of violence is only important if you are one of those who is keeping score......... both sides in the conflict are wrong.... ... and don;t worry.... i have told my catholic friends who are confused about it... some of whom are irish and who think it;s kewl or even patriotic to defend the ira... the very same thing...... they are defending and supporting murderers.....
Click to expand...

And I did not dispute CB's facts. Merely his and your conclusions from the facts.
To say that Paisley was the reason for the ongoing conflict in NI is not supportable by the facts.
In every conflict, if one side would capitulate there would be 'peace'. So if his failing to side with the IRA was antagonistic, then the same could be said of Gerry Adams, his counterpart on the other side.

I am not disputing that violence was perpetrated by both sides of the conflict.
I am not disputing that Paisley was not ultimately responsible for some wrong-doing....how much is unknown, and how much he hindered violence by the Protestants is also unknown.
I am saying that to re-write history and make the Catholic IRA and the Catholic Church to be good guys to Paisley's love for violent conflict is ludicrous.
 
subllibrm said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
But, because he was a fundy and opposed Catholicism, he must be demonized, given no credit for any accomplishment. And at the same time the Catholics are an arm of evangelicalism and the Pope is akin to Billy Graham.
Click to expand...

So being against Paisley's politics is equal to being pro-Catholic theologically? I hope you didn't hurt yourself making that leap.
Click to expand...

I didn't make that leap.....simply used absurdity to illustrate the absurd.
Does that mean you are for the IRA's politics?
Does that mean that you are anti-Catholic theologically?

Again, my point is missed....on the FFF, fundys must be bashed.
Paisley went to Bob Jones, so obviously his stopped clock wasn't right twice a day either.

The bottom line, I agree with the OP....RIP Ian Paisley!
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
I am not disputing that Paisley was not ultimately responsible for some wrong-doing
Click to expand...

Are you not disputing that you do not not disagree? 

 
Chuck Bob:
Oh, ISIS must be destroyed for the security of the free world. It's 1939 all over again. What will we do?

Not much. Remember who our President is....
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Chuck Bob:
Oh, ISIS must be destroyed for the security of the free world. It's 1939 all over again. What will we do?

Not much. Remember who our President is....
Click to expand...

But we'll have "peace in our time."

ChuckBob

 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Just because Paisley was a Fundamentalist doesn't negate his accomplishments.
To give the devil his due doesn't add credibility to the fundy movement.
But, because he was a fundy and opposed Catholicism, he must be demonized, given no credit for any accomplishment. And at the same time the Catholics are an arm of evangelicalism and the Pope is akin to Billy Graham.
Click to expand...

To Paisley there's not much doubt that the Pope and Billy Graham were indeed akin to one another.  LOL!!!  Or at least until he invited Franklin Graham to hold court with him in 2008.

Paisley aside, it is an interesting study on how some who are so militant for so long finally give it up inexplicably near the end of life.
 
I'm shedding no tears over Paisley. From where I sit, he was just another angry nutjob who fomented hatred and violence. Good riddance!

OTOH, his trademark fashion design was kinda cool for its time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top