Jack Hyles and Dave Hyles

[rsc2a]

[quote author=subllibrm]So it was abusive emotional manipulation of a 12 year old boy. Got it.[/quote]

And not all that different from an altar call.

 

[Bruh]

If a person grew up in the middle of it and knew nothing else I can honestly see how they were duped by the place.

When my dad moved us there I was starting kindergarten and went through 5th grade. One day we were (my family) driving somewhere and we're talking about reading through the bible and in the course of the conversation I said, not even Bro. Hyles has read through the whole bible.  And of course,my parents corrected me.

My point is, looking back I can see if we would have stayed that I MAY have bought into the place as well.

After moving there I remember my mom saying that she never saw my dad anymore.

my parents have always said, the Danbarys (spelling) and the Jorgensons were always good to them.

 

[RAIDER]

If a person grew up in the middle of it and knew nothing else I can honestly see how they were duped by the place.

When my dad moved us there I was starting kindergarten and went through 5th grade. One day we were (my family) driving somewhere and we're talking about reading through the bible and in the course of the conversation I said, not even Bro. Hyles has read through the whole bible.  And of course,my parents corrected me.

My point is, looking back I can see if we would have stayed that I MAY have bought into the place as well.

After moving there I remember my mom saying that she never saw my dad anymore.

A lot of the people that have this testimony were married college students.  They were carrying a full load of classes, working a full time job, and serving in the bus ministry.  It had to be tough for that group.  FBCH/HAC did not hide the fact that it was going to be this way.

 

[Bruh]

If a person grew up in the middle of it and knew nothing else I can honestly see how they were duped by the place.

When my dad moved us there I was starting kindergarten and went through 5th grade. One day we were (my family) driving somewhere and we're talking about reading through the bible and in the course of the conversation I said, not even Bro. Hyles has read through the whole bible.  And of course,my parents corrected me.

My point is, looking back I can see if we would have stayed that I MAY have bought into the place as well.

After moving there I remember my mom saying that she never saw my dad anymore.

A lot of the people that have this testimony were married college students.  They were carrying a full load of classes, working a full time job, and serving in the bus ministry.  It had to be tough for that group.  FBCH/HAC did not hide the fact that it was going to be this way.

And did not care what they were doing.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

  FBCH/HAC did not hide the fact that it was going to be this way.

The lie was that the sacrifice was necessary in the attempt to save America. If that ideology wasn't taught, it certainly was 'caught'.

 

[Bruh]

I'm convinced that someone like Raider will never understand.

And this is not a slam on you raider.

 

[RAIDER]

I'm convinced that someone like Raider will never understand.

And this is not a slam on you raider.

You are sooooo wrong.  I was in it and watched it for 4 years while at HAC.  After I left I had close ties for several years.  I do not agree with the "pushing" and "guilt trips" put on people.  I believe the schedule was ridiculous.  It took me one full year of putting up with stupidity to figure much of it out and make my own adjustments.  I chose to go and I chose to stay.

 

[bgwilkinson]

  FBCH/HAC did not hide the fact that it was going to be this way.

The lie was that the sacrifice was necessary in the attempt to save America. If that ideology wasn't taught, it certainly was 'caught'.

How is that saving America thing working out for those who caught it?

Whatever happened to following God's plan for saving and healing of the land?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."


Whatever happened to humility, repentance and prayer?

 

[Bruh]

I'm convinced that someone like Raider will never understand.

And this is not a slam on you raider.

You are sooooo wrong.  I was in it and watched it for 4 years while at HAC.  After I left I had close ties for several years.  I do not agree with the "pushing" and "guilt trips" put on people.  I believe the schedule was ridiculous.  It took me one full year of putting up with stupidity to figure much of it out and make my own adjustments.  I chose to go and I chose to stay.

I honestly have mixed feelings wait comes to this.

As I said I can see how someone growing up there can be duped by the place and I can see how an adult walking in could have been duped by the place.

But at the same time I can see how the person walking in as an adult holds the responsibility in it all. But if they walk into it and they are told this is Christianity and maybe this is all they know as well.......like I said I have mixed feelings.

I feel I can see both sides and argue a good point for both sides.

 

[RAIDER]

  FBCH/HAC did not hide the fact that it was going to be this way.

The lie was that the sacrifice was necessary in the attempt to save America. If that ideology wasn't taught, it certainly was 'caught'.

How is that saving America thing working out for those who caught it?

Whatever happened to following God's plan for saving and healing of the land?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."


Whatever happened to humility, repentance and prayer?

I agree 100% with your post, but you have forgotten that there are 1000s of people that were affected by FBCH/HAC serving God all over the world.  They are following the Great Commission.  Let's not think for a minute that everything and everyone from FBCH/HAC have failed.

 

[RAIDER]

I'm convinced that someone like Raider will never understand.

And this is not a slam on you raider.

You are sooooo wrong.  I was in it and watched it for 4 years while at HAC.  After I left I had close ties for several years.  I do not agree with the "pushing" and "guilt trips" put on people.  I believe the schedule was ridiculous.  It took me one full year of putting up with stupidity to figure much of it out and make my own adjustments.  I chose to go and I chose to stay.

As I said I can see how someone growing up there can be duped by the place and I can see how an adult walking in could have been duped by the place.

But at the same time I can see how the person walking in as an adult holds the responsibility in it all. But if they walk into it and they are told this is Christianity and maybe this is all they know as well.......like I said I have mixed feelings.

And this is what I have "preached" on the FFF since my first day of posting.  As we look back, the place was not all good, but it was not all bad.  The problem is that some do not want to hear any of the good.  If you stand up for something good you are labeled a "koolaid" drinker.   

 

[Smellin Coffee]

  FBCH/HAC did not hide the fact that it was going to be this way.

The lie was that the sacrifice was necessary in the attempt to save America. If that ideology wasn't taught, it certainly was 'caught'.

How is that saving America thing working out for those who caught it?

Whatever happened to following God's plan for saving and healing of the land?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."


Whatever happened to humility, repentance and prayer?

Exactly. Which describes the lie.

 

[Bruh]

I'm convinced that someone like Raider will never understand.

And this is not a slam on you raider.

You are sooooo wrong.  I was in it and watched it for 4 years while at HAC.  After I left I had close ties for several years.  I do not agree with the "pushing" and "guilt trips" put on people.  I believe the schedule was ridiculous.  It took me one full year of putting up with stupidity to figure much of it out and make my own adjustments.  I chose to go and I chose to stay.

As I said I can see how someone growing up there can be duped by the place and I can see how an adult walking in could have been duped by the place.

But at the same time I can see how the person walking in as an adult holds the responsibility in it all. But if they walk into it and they are told this is Christianity and maybe this is all they know as well.......like I said I have mixed feelings.

And this is what I have "preached" on the FFF since my first day of posting.  As we look back, the place was not all good, but it was not all bad.  The problem is that some do not want to hear any of the good.  If you stand up for something good you are labeled a "koolaid" drinker. 

It seems as though, if you grew up there that, they would be affected in a negative way the most. But if not, not so much if any at all.

If the majority (and I don't know if it is, maybe someone who grew up there can say there experience here) that grew up there has a negative outlook on the place.........my my my that is very telling of the place.

So someone growing up there hears a positive and says, yea but the truth is, it really wasn't that way.

Understand?

 

[Bruh]

In short my view of the place goes like this.

Taking from smaller churches to build FBCH. And if that young person and or adult married person really is a builder will offer them a job and the smaller churches suffer.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I'm convinced that someone like Raider will never understand.

And this is not a slam on you raider.

You are sooooo wrong.  I was in it and watched it for 4 years while at HAC.  After I left I had close ties for several years.  I do not agree with the "pushing" and "guilt trips" put on people.  I believe the schedule was ridiculous.  It took me one full year of putting up with stupidity to figure much of it out and make my own adjustments.  I chose to go and I chose to stay.

As I said I can see how someone growing up there can be duped by the place and I can see how an adult walking in could have been duped by the place.

But at the same time I can see how the person walking in as an adult holds the responsibility in it all. But if they walk into it and they are told this is Christianity and maybe this is all they know as well.......like I said I have mixed feelings.

And this is what I have "preached" on the FFF since my first day of posting.  As we look back, the place was not all good, but it was not all bad.  The problem is that some do not want to hear any of the good.  If you stand up for something good you are labeled a "koolaid" drinker. 

It seems as though, if you grew up there that, they would be affected in a negative way the most. But if not, not so much if any at all.

If the majority (and I don't know if it is, maybe someone who grew up there can say there experience here) that grew up there has a negative outlook on the place.........my my my that is very telling of the place.

So someone growing up there hears a positive and says, yea but the truth is, it really wasn't that way.

Understand?

There are two individuals in particular whose names have been brought up several times on this forum; one in a mainly positive light and the other in a mainly negative light. I know some pretty seedy stuff about both of them including personal interaction but since their issues is not an endangerment to anyone else, it does me no good to rail on either of them publicly. Both now have family members who don't need their parent/spouse dragged through the mud on a public forum. Changing public perceptions on someone from a positive view to a negative is not my responsibility (unless they are a potential harm to others). So not only in these two cases, there is a lot of stuff I just let slip on by because 1. It will hurt someone else (their family members), 2. Personal statutes of limitations have passed, 3.) They may have repented but since I have not spoken to them in decades, I might not know this, 4.) It is God's responsibility to take care of their history, 5.) It is not my job to change someone else's perception of another.

That being said, I would rate it about 30% positive / 70% negative in my growing up there. But there is no reason to add fuel to a fire that is burning out so I let people cling to whatever positive they may have gained from that place even though I might know the awful truth beyond what is perceived.

 

[Bruh]

I'm convinced that someone like Raider will never understand.

And this is not a slam on you raider.

You are sooooo wrong.  I was in it and watched it for 4 years while at HAC.  After I left I had close ties for several years.  I do not agree with the "pushing" and "guilt trips" put on people.  I believe the schedule was ridiculous.  It took me one full year of putting up with stupidity to figure much of it out and make my own adjustments.  I chose to go and I chose to stay.

As I said I can see how someone growing up there can be duped by the place and I can see how an adult walking in could have been duped by the place.

But at the same time I can see how the person walking in as an adult holds the responsibility in it all. But if they walk into it and they are told this is Christianity and maybe this is all they know as well.......like I said I have mixed feelings.

And this is what I have "preached" on the FFF since my first day of posting.  As we look back, the place was not all good, but it was not all bad.  The problem is that some do not want to hear any of the good.  If you stand up for something good you are labeled a "koolaid" drinker. 

It seems as though, if you grew up there that, they would be affected in a negative way the most. But if not, not so much if any at all.

If the majority (and I don't know if it is, maybe someone who grew up there can say there experience here) that grew up there has a negative outlook on the place.........my my my that is very telling of the place.

So someone growing up there hears a positive and says, yea but the truth is, it really wasn't that way.

Understand?

There are two individuals in particular whose names have been brought up several times on this forum; one in a mainly positive light and the other in a mainly negative light. I know some pretty seedy stuff about both of them including personal interaction but since their issues is not an endangerment to anyone else, it does me no good to rail on either of them publicly. Both now have family members who don't need their parent/spouse dragged through the mud on a public forum. Changing public perceptions on someone from a positive view to a negative is not my responsibility (unless they are a potential harm to others). So not only in these two cases, there is a lot of stuff I just let slip on by because 1. It will hurt someone else (their family members), 2. Personal statutes of limitations have passed, 3.) They may have repented but since I have not spoken to them in decades, I might not know this, 4.) It is God's responsibility to take care of their history, 5.) It is not my job to change someone else's perception of another.

That being said, I would rate it about 30% positive / 70% negative in my growing up there. But there is no reason to add fuel to a fire that is burning out so I let people cling to whatever positive they may have gained from that place even though I might know the awful truth beyond what is perceived.

I can see that. If someone was going to bring their family there then, yes they should know the details., to make an informed decision.

But if they are not then why say anything?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Relax Swamphag,
We need you on the Forum. Most of us understand what you mean. You may choose not to use some of Dr. Hyles books but if someone else wanted them you were kind enough to offer. Don't let others get under your skin. To them ribbing others is all part of the fun. NEVER let them know it bugs you. It will take the fun out of it for them.

Spot on.  It's just part of the fun. 

I listened to a JH tape this week that I found buried in the glove box.  Nostalgia filled me, along with a horror.

FWIW "flippin rip" is Baptist-ese for F***** Sh**.  We all did it or do it, especially the "stinkin" that we love do much.  Just laugh about it, don't get all uptight.

 

[RAIDER]

I can see that. If someone was going to bring their family there then, yes they should know the details., to make an informed decision.

But if they are not then why say anything?

I have said it before and I will stand behind it 100%.  FBCH/HAC were not hiding the rules that they enforced.  They did not paint the place one way and you show up and it's another.  Kids that grew up there did not have a choice.  Adults and college students had no reason to walk in blind.

 

[Bruh]

I can see that. If someone was going to bring their family there then, yes they should know the details., to make an informed decision.

But if they are not then why say anything?

I have said it before and I will stand behind it 100%.  FBCH/HAC were not hiding the rules that they enforced.  They did not paint the place one way and you show up and it's another.  Kids that grew up there did not have a choice.  Adults and college students had no reason to walk in blind.

What I was referring to was, if a pastor/staff/laymen was allowing abuse of any sort. And covering it up.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I can see that. If someone was going to bring their family there then, yes they should know the details., to make an informed decision.

But if they are not then why say anything?

I have said it before and I will stand behind it 100%.  FBCH/HAC were not hiding the rules that they enforced.  They did not paint the place one way and you show up and it's another.  Kids that grew up there did not have a choice.  Adults and college students had no reason to walk in blind.

What I was referring to was, if a pastor/staff/laymen was allowing abuse of any sort. And covering it up.

As well as allowing staff members to remain while knowing they were being sexually immoral.