Jack Schaap cussing?

[nightbusheretic14]

It true that Jack Schaap would sometimes cuss at his staff members in meetings?  I am sure some of you here are former staff members of FBC or HAC. What were some of your experiences with Jack Schaap in your meetings with him?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I really don't have a problem with one cussing as long as it is not done with disrespect.

I couldn't cuss "at" somebody as I feel that would be wrong. Also, using cuss words as a part of ones regular vocabulary is just tacky, IMHO. But if one uses a cuss word purposely for emphasis (providing it doesn't take God's name in vain), or even if it slips out when one gets suddenly hurt, I don't have any issues with it.

So for me, it would depend on how Schaap's cussing was directed.

 

[groupie]

He used the F word and a few other cuss words at me. I was not n staff and left over it.

 

[BigSteve]

I have no doubt.  I was helping at a youth conference that he preached at, and came around the corner to hear him cussing.

 

[no value]

Schaap's foul language should help him adapt in prison.

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."  Ephesians 4:29

 

[bgwilkinson]

I have never heard him say anything off color around me or my family.

Every time I met with him he was on his best behavior. He always treated me with deference and respect.

 

[fishinnut]

I really don't have a problem with one cussing as long as it is not done with disrespect.

I couldn't cuss "at" somebody as I feel that would be wrong. Also, using cuss words as a part of ones regular vocabulary is just tacky, IMHO. But if one uses a cuss word purposely for emphasis (providing it doesn't take God's name in vain), or even if it slips out when one gets suddenly hurt, I don't have any issues with it.

So for me, it would depend on how Schaap's cussing was directed.

Chapter & verse please.

I will never get this thinking.....or lack of back-up for the testimony of a believer.

I work with people who pray out-loud when only God has the answer to life's tragedies & praise out-loud when He does answer, but cuss like a DI when things don't go their way. They are not reaching anyone for, teaching anyone about or beseeching anyone for the Lord Jesus.

James 1:26, James 3:10 & as has been quoted already Eph. 4:29 among many other verses & teachings on the tongue.

 

[prophet]

I really don't have a problem with one cussing as long as it is not done with disrespect.

I couldn't cuss "at" somebody as I feel that would be wrong. Also, using cuss words as a part of ones regular vocabulary is just tacky, IMHO. But if one uses a cuss word purposely for emphasis (providing it doesn't take God's name in vain), or even if it slips out when one gets suddenly hurt, I don't have any issues with it.

So for me, it would depend on how Schaap's cussing was directed.

Chapter & verse please.

I will never get this thinking.....or lack of back-up for the testimony of a believer.

I work with people who pray out-loud when only God has the answer to life's tragedies & praise out-loud when He does answer, but cuss like a DI when things don't go their way. They are not reaching anyone for, teaching anyone about or beseeching anyone for the Lord Jesus.

James 1:26, James 3:10 & as has been quoted already Eph. 4:29 among many other verses & teachings on the tongue.

Show me the word "cussing" in Scripture.

Certainly, God uses human excrement to describe undesirable things, so don't try to even insinuate that He is wrong to do that.

To "swear" means: "to promise", so don't go there, either.

Nowhere does the Scripture tell us that certain words are off limits.

So when you say "chapter and verse", you better do your homework yourself.

Should we damn people?
No, but there is a lot more to putting a curse on someone, than saying the word.

Should we blaspheme?
Absolutely not!

Should we "cuss"?
Lol, only in certain parts of the USA, is this made up concept even an issue.  It certainly isn't out West.

 

[16KJV11]

Maybe there is no exact Scripture prohibiting cussing as we know it, but surely these Scriptures and more convey the principle of a pure mouth...

Colossians 4:6 (KJV)
Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Sure, modern day foul language isn't graceful speech.

Titus 2:7-8 (KJV)
7  In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, 8  Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

1 Timothy 4:7 (KJV)
7  But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

1 Timothy 6:20 (KJV)
20  O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

2 Timothy 2:16 (KJV)
16  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

The word profane means wicked, heathenish...

Philippians 4:8 (KJV)
8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
I realize that this Scripture says 'think', but truly as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.

Much of the folly of the Pharisees in Jesus day was b/c they derived their righteousness from obeying the letter of the law to obtain their righteousness. 
Much of the folly of today's Pharisees is derived from the fact that if they don't have a specific verse covering a specific item, they ignore the spirit of Scriptures.

Maybe there is no Scripture strictly forbidding modern day 'cursing' per se', but the spirit of the Scriptures dictates that whatever we DO say should be pure, holy, incorruptible, God honoring etc. etc. etc.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I really don't have a problem with one cussing as long as it is not done with disrespect.

I couldn't cuss "at" somebody as I feel that would be wrong. Also, using cuss words as a part of ones regular vocabulary is just tacky, IMHO. But if one uses a cuss word purposely for emphasis (providing it doesn't take God's name in vain), or even if it slips out when one gets suddenly hurt, I don't have any issues with it.

So for me, it would depend on how Schaap's cussing was directed.

Chapter & verse please.

I will never get this thinking.....or lack of back-up for the testimony of a believer.

I work with people who pray out-loud when only God has the answer to life's tragedies & praise out-loud when He does answer, but cuss like a DI when things don't go their way. They are not reaching anyone for, teaching anyone about or beseeching anyone for the Lord Jesus.

James 1:26, James 3:10 & as has been quoted already Eph. 4:29 among many other verses & teachings on the tongue.

Show me chapter and verse for what constitutes cussing. I believe there are times when the right cuss word at the right time can be used for emphasis. In addition, it has been proven that swearing helps the body relieve pain.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-we-swear/

But to cuss at somebody, I feel that would be wrong. To take God's name in vain would be wrong. James mentions control of the tongue, no doubt. And his description actually fits my idea of when we should not do so:

With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. 10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing.

Anybody who knows me knows cussing is not a part of my vocabulary. But I personally believe that it can be a word fitly spoken at times. If you disagree, that's fine.

 

[kaba]

Maybe there is no exact Scripture prohibiting cussing as we know it, but surely these Scriptures and more convey the principle of a pure mouth...

Colossians 4:6 (KJV)
Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Sure, modern day foul language isn't graceful speech.

Titus 2:7-8 (KJV)
7  In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, 8  Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

1 Timothy 4:7 (KJV)
7  But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

1 Timothy 6:20 (KJV)
20  O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

2 Timothy 2:16 (KJV)
16  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

The word profane means wicked, heathenish...

Philippians 4:8 (KJV)
8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
I realize that this Scripture says 'think', but truly as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.

Much of the folly of the Pharisees in Jesus day was b/c they derived their righteousness from obeying the letter of the law to obtain their righteousness. 
Much of the folly of today's Pharisees is derived from the fact that if they don't have a specific verse covering a specific item, they ignore the spirit of Scriptures.

Maybe there is no Scripture strictly forbidding modern day 'cursing' per se', but the spirit of the Scriptures dictates that whatever we DO say should be pure, holy, incorruptible, God honoring etc. etc. etc.

Very well said!

 

[fishinnut]

I really don't have a problem with one cussing as long as it is not done with disrespect.

I couldn't cuss "at" somebody as I feel that would be wrong. Also, using cuss words as a part of ones regular vocabulary is just tacky, IMHO. But if one uses a cuss word purposely for emphasis (providing it doesn't take God's name in vain), or even if it slips out when one gets suddenly hurt, I don't have any issues with it.

So for me, it would depend on how Schaap's cussing was directed.

Chapter & verse please.

I will never get this thinking.....or lack of back-up for the testimony of a believer.

I work with people who pray out-loud when only God has the answer to life's tragedies & praise out-loud when He does answer, but cuss like a DI when things don't go their way. They are not reaching anyone for, teaching anyone about or beseeching anyone for the Lord Jesus.

James 1:26, James 3:10 & as has been quoted already Eph. 4:29 among many other verses & teachings on the tongue.

Show me chapter and verse for what constitutes cussing. I believe there are times when the right cuss word at the right time can be used for emphasis. In addition, it has been proven that swearing helps the body relieve pain.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-we-swear/

But to cuss at somebody, I feel that would be wrong. To take God's name in vain would be wrong. James mentions control of the tongue, no doubt. And his description actually fits my idea of when we should not do so:

With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. 10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing.

Anybody who knows me knows cussing is not a part of my vocabulary. But I personally believe that it can be a word fitly spoken at times. If you disagree, that's fine.

So..."cussing for emphasis" or "at the right time" to me is like IFBX preachers yelling when they making weak points when preaching. Would that cussing for emphasis include speaking to a judge in a courtroom or a cop when he is writing you a speeding ticket or when chewing out you child or maybe  preacher driving home a point in chapel at a Christian school or church? If it is "T" totally proper when you deem it is "the right time", then it would stand to reason that it would be proper anytime. Like when JS, a pastor at the time, used bad language "for emphasis" in staff meetings or chewing out staff members. NOT. I would have to disagree.

James 3:9 is not a justification for bad language, rather saying that when someone does so, then it is wrong. BTW, you forgot the rest of verse 10.

 

[rsc2a]

Reminds me of a guy I know...

Say the meanest, most hurtful, vile things about a person all day long so long as you don't use the 'wrong' words.

Told him in no uncertain terms a person with colorful language who doesn't deliberately seek to offend is a better follower of Jesus than the man he would look up to.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

So..."cussing for emphasis" or "at the right time" to me is like IFBX preachers yelling when they making weak points when preaching. Would that cussing for emphasis include speaking to a judge in a courtroom or a cop when he is writing you a speeding ticket or when chewing out you child or maybe  preacher driving home a point in chapel at a Christian school or church?

If one would know it could possibly be offensive to someone, why would one choose to do it? Again, a word fitly spoken...

  If it is "T" totally proper when you deem it is "the right time", then it would stand to reason that it would be proper anytime. Like when JS, a pastor at the time, used bad language "for emphasis" in staff meetings or chewing out staff members. NOT. I would have to disagree.

I can't speak for when anybody else would deem it appropriate. I don't have to answer for them. Personally, to do it for the purpose of being offensive and not simply descriptive, then I would definitely question that in light of James 3, but it isn't my circus to worry about.

  James 3:9 is not a justification for bad language, rather saying that when someone does so, then it is wrong.

I never said it was a justification, I said that the words James was talking about was words directed AT somebody. Jesus said the same thing:

But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

Haven't we all called someone a fool at one point or another?

BTW, you forgot the rest of verse 10.

Which piggybacks verse 9:

With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing (of other people). My brothers, these things ought not to be so.

This doesn't at all change the context of cursing someone else. The context is not that cursing is saying, "S---t!" when one gets his fingers pinched by a closed door.

 

[prophet]

Reminds me of a guy I know...

Say the meanest, most hurtful, vile things about a person all day long so long as you don't use the 'wrong' words.

Told him in no uncertain terms a person with colorful language who doesn't deliberately seek to offend is a better follower of Jesus than the man he would look up to.

Exactly.

Pharisees( White society), with a list of don'ts, that can be condemned from the vantage point of outside of the heart (outward appearance), can pretend that they are better than others.

To "take the name of The LORD your God in vain", means to call yourself His child, when you are not, in The Church.

This is just one example of where we lessen the value of Scripture, to make it appear to be a simple do and don't list.

Taking the name of God in vain is a serious problem, especially among those who say "My Lord", but don't trust Him to provide.

Where did this dung come from?
First the Jew, then the Greek, then Rome, is my guess.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Taking the name of God in vain is a serious problem, especially among those who say "My Lord", but don't trust Him to provide.

And also those who in church shout, "Bless God!" as an agreement response to what the preacher had just said.

 

[prophet]

They may as well say "by cracky", since they don't mean anything more than that anyway.

 

[cast.sheep]

I honestly can't believe where this thread has gone...ha!

Yes, JS cussed at people in a very personal and degrading way. Looked right at them in anger and called them "arrogant little (insert colorful words here)". Not just staff. Teenagers too. The "f" word was not uncommon. Threw young men up against the wall....in anger.

Does that answer the question in the OP?

 

[Bruh]

I honestly can't believe where this thread has gone...ha!

Yes, JS cussed at people in a very personal and degrading way. Looked right at them in anger and called them "arrogant little (insert colorful words here)". Not just staff. Teenagers too. The "f" word was not uncommon. Threw young men up against the wall....in anger.

Does that answer the question in the OP?

And shame on the parents for allowing this to be done.

When someone messes with your kids, that is a different kind of anger. As it has been said many times on here, I did not grow up in the system, so I cannot fathom the fathers not breaking JS face in.

I promise you, if he had done that to my kid.......my wife would be bailing me out of jail.

 

[IFB X-Files]

......my wife would be bailing me out of jail.

You sure about that?