Jeremy Whitman Lancaster Baptist Church Does anyone know anything about this?

[prophet]

Or the number one go to guy at LBC, sent out to "correct" the paper, for calling JW a pastor  in the initial story?

Anishinaabe

I don't know, I'm trusting your word about the correction and retraction, so you'll have to explain what happened in order for me to make sense of it all.  My point, from what I understand happened, is that a man who is not the senior pastor of the church mis-spoke, and now it's been clarified.  If that's the case, it's all much ado about nothing IMHO.

Reread the thread, follow the links, it's all here.

Anishinaabe

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Or the number one go to guy at LBC, sent out to "correct" the paper, for calling JW a pastor  in the initial story?

Anishinaabe

I don't know, I'm trusting your word about the correction and retraction, so you'll have to explain what happened in order for me to make sense of it all.  My point, from what I understand happened, is that a man who is not the senior pastor of the church mis-spoke, and now it's been clarified.  If that's the case, it's all much ado about nothing IMHO.

Reread the thread, follow the links, it's all here.

Anishinaabe

I did. Here is what much ado about nothing is made up of.

Post #1 A link to an AV Times article in which Tim Christoson is quoted as saying that Jeremy Whitman was an employee at LBC and a youth pastor intern many years ago.

Post #16 Honey Badger quoted a newspaper article in which Tim Christoson is quoted as saying that he was a coworker of Jeremy's for a number of years and that his role at the church was not a Pastoral role, but was a clerical role. This post went on to post links to two pieces of information and two other facebook posts that that in many minds contradict the statement made by Tim Chriostoson. These four pieces of information point to the respective dates of September 2007, a Ministry Session in 2010, and the two recent facebook posts.

Post #18 is a Honey Badger post about a guy named Kenneth Arnold who posted that Jeremy was going to write a book that exposed LBC and then had the post deleted multiple times.

The contradiction appears to be in the statement made by Tim Christoson

"Jeremy worked here for a period of time(17 years); he resigned here six months ago(in the beginning it was a 'shoulder injury', but will we ever truly know?)... We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the Church was NOT a PASTORAL role. He had a CLERICAL role. Though Erik had attended Whitman's SUNDAY SCHOOL CLASS, he was NOT an ACTIVE MEMBER at Lancaster Baptist Church." Christonson said.

However

Tim Christoson never said that Jeremy Whitman NEVER held a pastoral role. He simply said said "his role at the church was not a pastoral role. He had a clerical role". This statement is/was true at the time of Jeremy's departure from LBC.

Paul Chappell himself said oh his blog on January 23

Over the years, Jeremy served in a variety of capacities here at Lancaster Baptist Church. He worked with our teens, helped our singles, and coordinated events. Most recently, he was a help to me as an assistant and member of my office team

So, the issue is the exact wording of Honey Badger's quote of Tim Christosons quote to a newspaper (I assume to be the AV Times) and the meaning of a quote that could be read in context in one of two ways. By the way, I can't find an online article that supports Honey Badgers quote. Doesnt mean the article never happened but.... You use your imagination. (Maybe we should have a 27 page thread on whether or not Honey Badger has a hidden agenda behind posting an undocumented quote, and whether he/she is guilty of the same manipulation that many are accusing PC of. Post a link, and I'll amend my sarcasm)

First of all, because he said Jeremy did not have a pastoral role, but a clerical role, one might assume he was trying to cover for the church by disassociating the church from Jeremy. But, according to the timeline, the first quote Tim Christoson made to the AV Times was on the 21st of January. The second quote was made to a newspaper (I assume to be the AV Times again, but cant be sure) on the 22nd of January. For this to be true, Tim Christoson would have to be lying for the church, and have forgot that the day before he said Jeremy was a youth pastor intern, and have a reasonable assumption that there would be no way to contradict what he said.

Or, Tim Christoson meant that the last position Jeremy held was clerical, not pastoral. Assisstant Pastor, specifically, assistant to the head pastor. Sounds like Paul Chappells personal assisstant, a clerical role.

So you tell me, what did Tim Christoson mean when he said:

"Jeremy worked here for a period of time(17 years); he resigned here six months ago(in the beginning it was a 'shoulder injury', but will we ever truly know?)... We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the Church was NOT a PASTORAL role. He had a CLERICAL role.

(That was straight copy paste from post #16)

 

[prophet]

An intern is not a pastoral role.


Anishinaabe

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

An intern is not a pastoral role.


Anishinaabe

Agreed. But think on this, LBC is a forward thinking church, by that I simply mean they use the internet and social media quite heavily. Anyone moderately up to date that uses the internet realizes that digital data lives on and on and on. Moreover, Honey Badgers links were to LBC hosted material. Tim Christoson had to be intelligent enough to know that there would be digital data to contradict a claim that Jeremy Whitman NEVER held a pastoral role.

 

[prophet]

An intern is not a pastoral role.


Anishinaabe

Agreed. But think on this, LBC is a forward thinking church, by that I simply mean they use the internet and social media quite heavily. Anyone moderately up to date that uses the internet realizes that digital data lives on and on and on. Moreover, Honey Badgers links were to LBC hosted material. Tim Christoson had to be intelligent enough to know that there would be digital data to contradict a claim that Jeremy Whitman NEVER held a pastoral role.

Sin doesn't make logical sense.

Anishinaabe

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

An intern is not a pastoral role.


Anishinaabe

Agreed. But think on this, LBC is a forward thinking church, by that I simply mean they use the internet and social media quite heavily. Anyone moderately up to date that uses the internet realizes that digital data lives on and on and on. Moreover, Honey Badgers links were to LBC hosted material. Tim Christoson had to be intelligent enough to know that there would be digital data to contradict a claim that Jeremy Whitman NEVER held a pastoral role.

Sin doesn't make logical sense.

Anishinaabe

Excellent. Profound. But so non-specific as to have no bearing. Adds nothing. Detracts nothing. Proves nothing. Disproves nothing. The perfect place to hide. 

Of course, then according to your post, Jeremys actions were an act of sin that made no sense. What was the point of participating in 27 pages of stuff that could have been summed up in "Sin makes no sense"? Were you trying to make sense of it?

 

[Been There]

I posted this on The AV Times. This is the Paul Chappell I know.

• Been there
January 24, 2014 at 2:54 pm
Why the hate? Arrogance.
If this had happened to person affiliated with another church in this valley I don’t think that the outcry would be as harsh, there are several reasons for this. Paul Chappell has made it clear that LBC is the only bible believing church in this valley. He has declared that he does not “hold hands “with churches that do not preach the gospel, inferring that the churches in this valley are not truly Christian. The record will show that he does not show up for meetings with other pastors in this valley.
Paul Chappell is arrogant while pretending to be a caring person, he mocks churches where people lift hands in worship or sing and play what he considers rock music, he has also discussed the dress of other people talking about their cut-off jeans, etc…
With regards to this particular tragedy, I could have predicted the way it was handled. Tim Christosen was the canary in the coal mine, so to speak. Tim goes out and distances himself for Mr. Whitman, Paul waits to see the response, and after the hue and cry he is now able to write a glowing report about his beloved assistant. This is the usual way things are handled with the staff. Paul’s instructions are, or should I say have been “Insulate me, don’t Isolate me”
I could be wrong but if he is still man I know, he has dispatched his underlings to the Ungermans to offer comfort all the while cautioning them to keep things private for the cause of Christ and protection of their family, as they say he is as slick as snot.
Paul Chappell is masterful at manipulation, as you all can see by the glowing posts from current members. I have seen some of those members awaken to see what is truly going on, some of the same people that shunned me when I left have cried bitter tears of regret. Paul will never have peace of mind because there are too many secrets; he knows that at some point some of his loyalist will leave on some pretense of being called to another ministry, while others will spill the proverbial beans
REPLY

 

[johnny30]

Anyone wondered if Jeremy's main target was not Erik but PC himself? Maybe Jeremy told Erik and when Jeremy found out that Erik was going to let the local authorities know, Jeremy flipped out and killed him. I'm not sure if Jeremy was bitter towards PC but you never know. Maybe PC knew this from Erik in the end, yet decided not to share it to protect the Whitman family?

This might not be the case but from the way everything is rolling out, this is the theory I have come up with. I highly doubt there is any foul-play from the church or PC himself.

Pure speculation which is fairly pointless.

Pointless until it is found to be true. *dun dun dun*
Half the other posts in this thread are speculation also.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Anyone wondered if Jeremy's main target was not Erik but PC himself? Maybe Jeremy told Erik and when Jeremy found out that Erik was going to let the local authorities know, Jeremy flipped out and killed him. I'm not sure if Jeremy was bitter towards PC but you never know. Maybe PC knew this from Erik in the end, yet decided not to share it to protect the Whitman family?

This might not be the case but from the way everything is rolling out, this is the theory I have come up with. I highly doubt there is any foul-play from the church or PC himself.

Pure speculation which is fairly pointless.

Pointless until it is found to be true. *dun dun dun*
Half the other posts in this thread *forum* are speculation also.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Or the number one go to guy at LBC, sent out to "correct" the paper, for calling JW a pastor  in the initial story?

Anishinaabe

I don't know, I'm trusting your word about the correction and retraction, so you'll have to explain what happened in order for me to make sense of it all.  My point, from what I understand happened, is that a man who is not the senior pastor of the church mis-spoke, and now it's been clarified.  If that's the case, it's all much ado about nothing IMHO.

Highly unlikely.  PC is not dumb.  He has done quite well in marketing and promoting his agenda.  He knows very well about the power of a press release.  In these situations, a person who is not a "top dog" is chosen to be the media representative for the head honcho and the church.  If the spokesman fails, or his story does not fair well in the public opinion polls, he can be removed from the public eye and a higher up can replace him with more certain speech.  PC is much too smart to allow an incorrect press release.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

It would seem as though the Paul Chappel defenders have shown up with all the veracity, contempt and closed-mindedness of Bob Gray.  8)

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

No doubt about it.  The gossip threads get the most attention. 

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Or the number one go to guy at LBC, sent out to "correct" the paper, for calling JW a pastor  in the initial story?

Anishinaabe

I don't know, I'm trusting your word about the correction and retraction, so you'll have to explain what happened in order for me to make sense of it all.  My point, from what I understand happened, is that a man who is not the senior pastor of the church mis-spoke, and now it's been clarified.  If that's the case, it's all much ado about nothing IMHO.

Highly unlikely.  PC is not dumb.  He has done quite well in marketing and promoting his agenda.  He knows very well about the power of a press release.  In these situations, a person who is not a "top dog" is chosen to be the media representative for the head honcho and the church.  If the spokesman fails, or his story does not fair well in the public opinion polls, he can be removed from the public eye and a higher up can replace him with more certain speech.  PC is much too smart to allow an incorrect press release.

So you are saying that you are certain that what Tim Christoson meant when he said

Jeremy worked here for a period of time(17 years); he resigned here six months ago(in the beginning it was a 'shoulder injury', but will we ever truly know?)... We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the Church was NOT a PASTORAL role. He had a CLERICAL role.

was that Jeremy never held a pastoral role, not that his last role was not pastoral but rather clerical?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Or the number one go to guy at LBC, sent out to "correct" the paper, for calling JW a pastor  in the initial story?

Anishinaabe

I don't know, I'm trusting your word about the correction and retraction, so you'll have to explain what happened in order for me to make sense of it all.  My point, from what I understand happened, is that a man who is not the senior pastor of the church mis-spoke, and now it's been clarified.  If that's the case, it's all much ado about nothing IMHO.

Highly unlikely.  PC is not dumb.  He has done quite well in marketing and promoting his agenda.  He knows very well about the power of a press release.  In these situations, a person who is not a "top dog" is chosen to be the media representative for the head honcho and the church.  If the spokesman fails, or his story does not fair well in the public opinion polls, he can be removed from the public eye and a higher up can replace him with more certain speech.  PC is much too smart to allow an incorrect press release.

So you are saying that you are certain that what Tim Christoson meant when he said

Jeremy worked here for a period of time(17 years); he resigned here six months ago(in the beginning it was a 'shoulder injury', but will we ever truly know?)... We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the Church was NOT a PASTORAL role. He had a CLERICAL role.

was that Jeremy never held a pastoral role, not that his last role was not pastoral but rather clerical?

I believe Tim said exactly what he meant to say.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Or the number one go to guy at LBC, sent out to "correct" the paper, for calling JW a pastor  in the initial story?

Anishinaabe

I don't know, I'm trusting your word about the correction and retraction, so you'll have to explain what happened in order for me to make sense of it all.  My point, from what I understand happened, is that a man who is not the senior pastor of the church mis-spoke, and now it's been clarified.  If that's the case, it's all much ado about nothing IMHO.

Highly unlikely.  PC is not dumb.  He has done quite well in marketing and promoting his agenda.  He knows very well about the power of a press release.  In these situations, a person who is not a "top dog" is chosen to be the media representative for the head honcho and the church.  If the spokesman fails, or his story does not fair well in the public opinion polls, he can be removed from the public eye and a higher up can replace him with more certain speech.  PC is much too smart to allow an incorrect press release.

So you are saying that you are certain that what Tim Christoson meant when he said

Jeremy worked here for a period of time(17 years); he resigned here six months ago(in the beginning it was a 'shoulder injury', but will we ever truly know?)... We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the Church was NOT a PASTORAL role. He had a CLERICAL role.

was that Jeremy never held a pastoral role, not that his last role was not pastoral but rather clerical?

I believe Tim said exactly what he meant to say.

Which we both realize is an ambiguous answer.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Or the number one go to guy at LBC, sent out to "correct" the paper, for calling JW a pastor  in the initial story?

Anishinaabe

I don't know, I'm trusting your word about the correction and retraction, so you'll have to explain what happened in order for me to make sense of it all.  My point, from what I understand happened, is that a man who is not the senior pastor of the church mis-spoke, and now it's been clarified.  If that's the case, it's all much ado about nothing IMHO.

Highly unlikely.  PC is not dumb.  He has done quite well in marketing and promoting his agenda.  He knows very well about the power of a press release.  In these situations, a person who is not a "top dog" is chosen to be the media representative for the head honcho and the church.  If the spokesman fails, or his story does not fair well in the public opinion polls, he can be removed from the public eye and a higher up can replace him with more certain speech.  PC is much too smart to allow an incorrect press release.

So you are saying that you are certain that what Tim Christoson meant when he said

Jeremy worked here for a period of time(17 years); he resigned here six months ago(in the beginning it was a 'shoulder injury', but will we ever truly know?)... We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the Church was NOT a PASTORAL role. He had a CLERICAL role.

was that Jeremy never held a pastoral role, not that his last role was not pastoral but rather clerical?

I believe Tim said exactly what he meant to say.

Which we both realize is an ambiguous answer.

Exactly.  Tim's answer was ambiguous.  It was not a lie, but it was not the whole truth.  His statement was true, but not completely true.  Very similar to a famous conversation in which a man was persuaded to try something because it would give him the ability to know good from evil.  Not a blatant lie, but not really the whole truth either - was it?

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Or the number one go to guy at LBC, sent out to "correct" the paper, for calling JW a pastor  in the initial story?

Anishinaabe

I don't know, I'm trusting your word about the correction and retraction, so you'll have to explain what happened in order for me to make sense of it all.  My point, from what I understand happened, is that a man who is not the senior pastor of the church mis-spoke, and now it's been clarified.  If that's the case, it's all much ado about nothing IMHO.

Highly unlikely.  PC is not dumb.  He has done quite well in marketing and promoting his agenda.  He knows very well about the power of a press release.  In these situations, a person who is not a "top dog" is chosen to be the media representative for the head honcho and the church.  If the spokesman fails, or his story does not fair well in the public opinion polls, he can be removed from the public eye and a higher up can replace him with more certain speech.  PC is much too smart to allow an incorrect press release.

So you are saying that you are certain that what Tim Christoson meant when he said

Jeremy worked here for a period of time(17 years); he resigned here six months ago(in the beginning it was a 'shoulder injury', but will we ever truly know?)... We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the Church was NOT a PASTORAL role. He had a CLERICAL role.

was that Jeremy never held a pastoral role, not that his last role was not pastoral but rather clerical?

I believe Tim said exactly what he meant to say.

Which we both realize is an ambiguous answer.

Exactly.  Tim's answer was ambiguous.  It was not a lie, but it was not the whole truth.  His statement was true, but not completely true.  Very similar to a famous conversation in which a man was persuaded to try something because it would give him the ability to know good from evil.  Not a blatant lie, but not really the whole truth either - was it?

I would say the analogy is a little melodramatic. And the conjecture based on thin information to condemn PC. Which has been my point all along.

When Ham debated Nye one of the thoughts I had was that it is not that they have different data, it is that they interpret the data differently. They have different worldviews, and that results in the different interpretation of the same data. Not every event in IFB'dom needs to be interpreted in light of FBCH.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Highly unlikely.  PC is not dumb.  He has done quite well in marketing and promoting his agenda.  He knows very well about the power of a press release.  In these situations, a person who is not a "top dog" is chosen to be the media representative for the head honcho and the church.  If the spokesman fails, or his story does not fair well in the public opinion polls, he can be removed from the public eye and a higher up can replace him with more certain speech.  PC is much too smart to allow an incorrect press release.

These kinds of gaffes happen with paid public relations experts all the time.  That doesn't excuse the guy for misspeaking (that's assuming that the paper didn't take anything out of context), but people make mistakes all the time, but some are more visible than others.  Christians ought to be longsuffering, not quick to crucify, particularly when the wrong is made right in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Highly unlikely.  PC is not dumb.  He has done quite well in marketing and promoting his agenda.  He knows very well about the power of a press release.  In these situations, a person who is not a "top dog" is chosen to be the media representative for the head honcho and the church.  If the spokesman fails, or his story does not fair well in the public opinion polls, he can be removed from the public eye and a higher up can replace him with more certain speech.  PC is much too smart to allow an incorrect press release.

These kinds of gaffes happen with paid public relations experts all the time.  That doesn't excuse the guy for misspeaking (that's assuming that the paper didn't take anything out of context), but people make mistakes all the time, but some are more visible than others.  Christians ought to be longsuffering, not quick to crucify, particularly when the wrong is made right in a reasonable timeframe.

Fair enough.  I guess this one is ready to be put to rest.  Different perspectives have been presented for this sad story:

[list type=decimal]
[*]The events are totally unrelated to the church.  Beware of sin and leaving the church.
[*]The manner in which the events were handled by the church seem quite less than forthright and honest.  This apparent disinformation coming on the heels of a published book calling for transparency and honesty is very ironic.
[*]Maybe there is a reason this Assistant Pastor left his life that is not just pain meds.  Manipulation is a part of the ministry and vice is being hidden by the leadership there.
[/list]

Pick your paradigm. 

 

[Roy Payne]

Binaca ~ Nice of you to spin your summation according to YOUR "paradigm".  Everything in the negative with no possibility of this being simply one troubled man acting out of the darkness of his own heart.

I never read anything that suggested "beware of sin & leaving the church" as if the two were somehow synonymous.  Should we beware of sin?  You betcha.  There are too many Scripture verses which support this exhortation for me to even begin to list them.  Should we avoid "leaving our church"?  Depends. 

If you're suggesting a "my church, right or wrong" mentality, then the answer is "No".  I led my family in leaving an IFB church just 3 years ago because of a dictator pastor with a plethora of provable offences & a pattern of "lording it over his church".  I was disappointed in several friends who chose to stay even though they knew what was being done was wrong.

On the other hand, should one leave a church simply because unproven and unjustified accusations have been made, many/most by people from outside the church, driven by their own agenda and a desire to tear down a good IFB church and its pastor?  The answer is a resounding "No!!".  If I were a member of Lancaster Baptist Church I would thank God for that ministry and rejoice that God has counted the church and its people worthy of suffering shame for His name (Acts 5:41).

From all I know and have been able to ascertain, this church is blameless of any wrong doing.  And if I moved to Lancaster, California today, by Thursday evening I would be thrilled to be in the Prayer Meeting and would throw myself wholeheartedly into the various ministries of the church.  My wife & I watch the Live Stream broadcasts regularly and often think of Brother Paul as our pastor.  Being full-time in the ministry ourselves, we need the input of a "man of God" like him.  I consider him an example of what it means to live visibly & vocally for Christ in every area of life.

I will continue to pray for many of those I've "met" on here, that God will convict them of their sins of gossip and hate, that they will be healed of their past hurts, and that they will do as the Apostle Paul did:

Philippians 3:13-14 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do , FORGETTING THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE BEHIND, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

God doesn't care what has happened at First Baptist of Hammond or at any other church where people may have fallen into sin IN THE PAST.  God is concerned about the future, our futures, the future that He has planned for each one of us. 

Let's "forget those things which are behind" and lets "press toward the mark", allowing God to use each one of us for HIS Honor and Glory !!  How can a believer in Jesus Christ do any differently? 

Wasting our energies and focusing our attention on such things as tearing down a church and a pastor will profit nothing for eternity.  Indeed, it may negatively impact our own spiritual health & detract from our eternal reward.