Jeremy Whitman Lancaster Baptist Church Does anyone know anything about this?

[ALAYMAN]

Fair enough.  I guess this one is ready to be put to rest.  Different perspectives have been presented for this sad story:

[list type=decimal]
[*]The events are totally unrelated to the church.  Beware of sin and leaving the church.
[*]The manner in which the events were handled by the church seem quite less than forthright and honest.  This apparent disinformation coming on the heels of a published book calling for transparency and honesty is very ironic.
[*]Maybe there is a reason this Assistant Pastor left his life that is not just pain meds.  Manipulation is a part of the ministry and vice is being hidden by the leadership there.
[/list]

Pick your paradigm.

Maybe, not so unlike other chemical dependency issues, roid rage, etc, the confrontation was purely a spiraling out of control of the life of a human gone off the rails.  I don't know, and neither does anybody here, but speculation does little good for anybody, and more like does harm, but many who have contempt for all things IFB love to spin things for the worst.  It's part and parcel of the FFF.

 

[Texastumbleweed1968]

I am new to this page and a former LBC church member and WCBC student.  I also was a friend of Jeremy and attended Pacific Coast Baptist Bible College with him before there was a WCBC. 

There is much blame to be pointed here but PC is a Good Pastor and even though I am no longer a member, I would have no problem attending the Church and follow his leadership.  Is the Church perfect (NO).  But guess what if there was a perfect Church and I joined it.  It would no longer be perfect because I AM NOT.  As Christians we all have our preferences.  If you and yours do not enjoy a Church like LBC go somewhere else.  No problem.  God uses different people all the time.  I am sure there are many other great Churches in the Antelope Valley, but me and my family chose LBC. 


I read the post of Nathan.  I have many fond memories of Nathan.  He is a good man, but we agree to disagree when it come to the leadership of LBC.  The reason Paul Chappell uses the term DR. in his title is because he has been given Honorary Degrees from other schools.  Very common in not only IFB Churches but in Southern Baptist Churches as well.  Not a big deal. 

I will tell you this about Pastor Chappell.  My wife and I separated in 1996 that is why I left the School.  Pastor Chappell got on his knees and prayed with me and wept.  Rick Houk also was a huge help.  Words could never tell them how much I appreciated both of them.  They helped me and my family immensely.  Even though our marriage was doomed and we separated and divorced in 2009.  My family and I moved away from LBC in 2004 to Texas.  I do believe with all my heart that our family would still be together if we would of stayed at LBC. 

Now back to Jeremy.  I knew the man since 1994 and I had the pleasure to spend time with him soulwinning and visiting and working a bus route.  The Jeremy I knew would not of done this, but Good people do bad things all the time.  What happened between Jeremy and the murder victim probably died with them.  He was clearly not in his right mind.  Drugs do different things to different people.  But lets bury this thing and move on with our lives.

Did the Church botch the press conference.  Probably.  But I know Tim C.  He is a good man and he is not the type who would cover up anything. 

Those people that are suggesting Jeremy was writing a tell all book.  Or Paul Chappell had him knocked off.  You have seen too much TV and probably too many episodes of the Twilight Zone.  Lets uplift one another and not condemn a Church that has literally helped thousands of people around the world.  I am someone that was helped.  They made a difference in my life.

Thank you for reading.
Brian

 

[sword]

Brian (TT1968)

Thank you for your post & thank you for sharing your incite on this tragedy

It clearly appears to be from your heart. 

I'm so sorry about your marriage & I hope things are going well for you in Texas.

 

[Texastumbleweed1968]

Brian (TT1968)

Thank you for your post & thank you for sharing your incite on this tragedy

It clearly appears to be from your heart. 

I'm so sorry about your marriage & I hope things are going well for you in Texas.

Thank you for your kind words.  May God bless Alicia Whitman and her children and the family of the Victim. 

 

[OZZY]

I don't know nothing about this. Read the comments on the news link and the Facebook page for the paper. Sounds like everybody loved the suspect...even the victims sister and ex-girlfriend. It is odd. I'd be furious if someone close to me killed my family member. I guess that just makes me bitter.

They were trained to praise leadership so much, they cant stop, even when he's a murderer.

Anishinaabe

I watched live Paul Chappell address this issue with the church. I believe he addressed it with grace and said what any of us would say and feel if someone close to us had committed such a crime.

The fact that this man committed such a terrible act does not mean you have to vilify his entire life. It seems there were underlying  decisions this man made that brought him to the point of making these terrible decisions. Based on what he said, the church has been helping his family for many months and also reached out to help the victims family.

Truly, I am not sure what else is expected. Like LBC, PC or not...I don't know what else should have been said or done. Just my opinion...

BTW...Ash...not directing at you specifically.

What. Should have been done is simple. Do not idolize the murderer and forget the victim.. Which is what Paul did.


If Jesse Jackson wrote a letter praising the life of an ex assistant that had murdered some one .The majority if not all of Paul's defenders would be on him like a pit bull on a poodle. Another example of what's wrong with right wing IFB(which I r 1)

 

[Roy Payne]

Brian/Texas Tumbleweed ~

Nice to learn more about you, though I am sorry for the breakup of your marriage, as I always am in such situations.

I agree with you on everything you said, especially "let's bury this thing & move on with our lives" and "not tearing down a good church that has helped thousands of people".

As for Bro. Chappell "idolizing" Jeremy and "forgetting" Erik?  If (God forbid!!) my son ever killed his best friend, I would obviously & understandably have many fond memories to share of my son and very little to say about his friend whom I did not know.  I've watched the videos and read everything Dr. Chappell has said in print and I see nothing that would pass for "idolizing". 

Again, agreeing with Brian, there are issues here we will never know about, nor should we.  Proverbs 19:11 "The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression."  LBC is handling this with "discretion", not making every detail public which, in my understanding of Scripture, is God's intended way of handling such things.

Proverbs 29:11 "A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards."  There's been a lot of folks "uttering all there mind" on this forum, and only a few acting as "wise men" (& women).

Hopefully, we can strive to "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." Ephesians 4:29

But if we did, FFF and others like it would cease to exist.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Brian/Texas Tumbleweed ~

Nice to learn more about you, though I am sorry for the breakup of your marriage, as I always am in such situations.

I agree with you on everything you said, especially "let's bury this thing & move on with our lives" and "not tearing down a good church that has helped thousands of people".

As for Bro. Chappell "idolizing" Jeremy and "forgetting" Erik?  If (God forbid!!) my son ever killed his best friend, I would obviously & understandably have many fond memories to share of my son and very little to say about his friend whom I did not know.  I've watched the videos and read everything Dr. Chappell has said in print and I see nothing that would pass for "idolizing". 

Again, agreeing with Brian, there are issues here we will never know about, nor should we.  Proverbs 19:11 "The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression."  LBC is handling this with "discretion", not making every detail public which, in my understanding of Scripture, is God's intended way of handling such things.

Proverbs 29:11 "A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards."  There's been a lot of folks "uttering all there mind" on this forum, and only a few acting as "wise men" (& women).

Hopefully, we can strive to "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." Ephesians 4:29

But if we did, FFF and others like it would cease to exist.

Sorry, Roy.  I just gotta jump in here.

You seem to have joined for the purpose of quieting criticism of your MOG.  Please remember that criticism can be a good thing.  I know very few people at LBC.  I have never been there.  I am not completely familiar with the complex inner workings of that place.  I do, however, know very well the cloth from which the institution is cut. 

I have heard your arguments used to cover a multitude of sins, offenses, vice and crime.  The Bible nowhere tells us to turn the other cheek and allow sin to continue.  Your argument prevents Nathan from proclaiming "thou art the man" and refuses to hear the instruction of the prophets.  Peace, Peace, when there is no peace is proclaimed to us by admonishing us to pass over a transgression. 

We on the forum have no need to know all of the family details.  I have never claimed that we do.  Those are private and should be.  However - PLEASE - do not admonish people to accept what they believe to be sin because their MOG is involved.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Brian/Texas Tumbleweed ~

Nice to learn more about you, though I am sorry for the breakup of your marriage, as I always am in such situations.

I agree with you on everything you said, especially "let's bury this thing & move on with our lives" and "not tearing down a good church that has helped thousands of people".

As for Bro. Chappell "idolizing" Jeremy and "forgetting" Erik?  If (God forbid!!) my son ever killed his best friend, I would obviously & understandably have many fond memories to share of my son and very little to say about his friend whom I did not know.  I've watched the videos and read everything Dr. Chappell has said in print and I see nothing that would pass for "idolizing". 

Again, agreeing with Brian, there are issues here we will never know about, nor should we.  Proverbs 19:11 "The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression."  LBC is handling this with "discretion", not making every detail public which, in my understanding of Scripture, is God's intended way of handling such things.

Proverbs 29:11 "A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards."  There's been a lot of folks "uttering all there mind" on this forum, and only a few acting as "wise men" (& women).

Hopefully, we can strive to "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." Ephesians 4:29

But if we did, FFF and others like it would cease to exist.

Sorry, Roy.  I just gotta jump in here.

You seem to have joined for the purpose of quieting criticism of your MOG.  Please remember that criticism can be a good thing.  I know very few people at LBC.  I have never been there.  I am not completely familiar with the complex inner workings of that place.  I do, however, know very well the cloth from which the institution is cut. 

I have heard your arguments used to cover a multitude of sins, offenses, vice and crime.  The Bible nowhere tells us to turn the other cheek and allow sin to continue.  Your argument prevents Nathan from proclaiming "thou art the man" and refuses to hear the instruction of the prophets.  Peace, Peace, when there is no peace is proclaimed to us by admonishing us to pass over a transgression. 

We on the forum have no need to know all of the family details.  I have never claimed that we do.  Those are private and should be.  However - PLEASE - do not admonish people to accept what they believe to be sin because their MOG is involved.

I don't know Roy or pretend to know his motives, but I didn't read the same thing you did into his post.

Aside from the fact that these two victims were once members of his church, how is Chappell or the church even involved in this mess?

I also understand that one of the families still attend his church...I assume that's the family he first helped.....probably for the sake if the family, not the murderer.

IMO - The only reason this was brought here was to tarnish Chappell and LBC and some seem to hope he/they were involved in some criminal conspiracy.....

Guilt by association or guilty until proven innocent?
Either way, it's all heat and no light.

AGAIN I say....If they were wrong or did wrong, give them all 10 years in the gas chamber....but, so far, all I've read here is innuendo, gossip and all of the evil things other IFBs have done over the years.

 

[wtyson]

I woke up this morning with you all on my heart...on many occasion I found myself on the FFF, not in a mood of edification, but rather putting my efforts into winning an argument. While we all want to "contend for the faith" I believe our first obligation is to glorify Christ in all that we say or do.

I don't know all the details of what happened in this situation. But I do know this...I should be lifting my brothers and sisters up in prayer. No doubt the FFF is attended by some who have been hurt, some intentionally, some unintentionally, some of their own doing and still others who had no guilt in the matter.

The reality is that there is no ministry in America when put under the microscope of public opinion or blog examination would "pass." Why? The church is filled with sinners. While that is the case, NO sin should be dismissed but it should be dealt with Biblical principle as the guide with restoration as its goal.

I challenge myself and my brothers and sisters in Christ here to spend just as much time in prayer for your "enemies" as you do in writing scathing personal opinion about them.

I challenged myself in study and prayer and shared with our church Sunday to put those with whom we do not like or those who could even be considered "enemies" at the top of our prayer list. I have found that this brings humility and self-examination and allows the Holy Spirit to work on my heart. I need the power of God and I can't have it with malice in my heart. I need to live in his presence and I can't without "preferring one another."

No-one who is saved by the matchless grace of God should be my enemy. I may be an old fashioned Independent Fundamental Baptist but that does not mean I don't rejoice when someone gets saved in another "type" of church.

I put this post on this thread because I believe everyone on this thread should spend some time in prayer for Paul Chappell and ask yourself...if one of the men who was in your ministry, someone you considered a friend, who worked with you...followed the path of JW...would it not break your heart? Would it not also hurt even more when those who call you "brother" then would further attack you? Former students who you invested in your time in, would turn around in a petty fashion, and question your ethics and character. My friends, we are held to higher standard....Christ-likeness. The reality is we all fall short. I have and yet my Saviour is long suffering.

If our lost neighbors and lurking forum readers are to ever be reached for Christ it won't be because we win an argument here. It will be because we show the love of Christ and share with them the transforming power of Christ. Are we as Christians on the FFF any different than the talk radio hosts that vilify the POTUS? If not, I ask you, why? Aren't we supposed to be different?

I will step down from my soap box. Forgive me if I offended you, it is not my intention. We MUST have the presence and power of God on us and we will never have it until we deal with things according to the Bible.

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Tim Christoson has been doing his job for a long time, is not a novice, and knew exactly what he was saying. IMHO They denied Jeremy was an asst pastor, which was false.

Stuff Fundies Like has also posted about this situation (along with the Bill Gothard perv and BJU Cover Up stories). It has been alleged Jeremy Whitman had an affair. This is not the first source I have heard this accusation from, and the sources are pretty solid. If this was the reason he left LBC, then certainly the congregation should have been made aware of it since he was an asst. pastor. Transparency would demand it...but IMHO PC is not even close to being transparent. It is just a well crafted façade...again IMHO.

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2014/02/friday-news-roundup/

It is hard to give someone the benefit of the doubt when you do not trust them as far as you could throw them.

Tries to appear not to support pervs in the pastorate, but then quietly supports his brother's and father's ministries. WCBC tour group sings at Freeway Baptist and a WCBC staff member praises Mark to his members from the pulpit. Mark brings large delegations to Paul's conferences (including youth to Youth Conference...Can there be a larger red flag?) A WCBC grad was counseled to work for Larry, Sr.

Read all 28 pages (it starts out slowly). Victims posted. Letter from new pastor at church in CT where Mark had given a public confession - he is still counseling Mark's underage victims. Attempts to bring the truth to the blindly loyal deacons of his current church, etc. And this man is still welcomed at LBC!

http://www.sflforums.com/showthread.php?tid=4303

 

[ALAYMAN]

Tim Christoson has been doing his job for a long time, is not a novice, and knew exactly what he was saying. IMHO They denied Jeremy was an asst pastor, which was false.

Stuff Fundies Like has also posted about this situation (along with the Bill Gothard perv and BJU Cover Up stories). It has been alleged Jeremy Whitman had an affair. This is not the first source I have heard this accusation from, and the sources are pretty solid. If this was the reason he left LBC, then certainly the congregation should have been made aware of it since he was an asst. pastor. Transparency would demand it...but IMHO PC is not even close to being transparent. It is just a well crafted façade...again IMHO.

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2014/02/friday-news-roundup/

It is hard to give someone the benefit of the doubt when you do not trust them as far as you could throw them.

Tries to appear not to support pervs in the pastorate, but then quietly supports his brother's and father's ministries. WCBC tour group sings at Freeway Baptist and a WCBC staff member praises Mark to his members from the pulpit. Mark brings large delegations to Paul's conferences (including youth to Youth Conference...Can there be a larger red flag?) A WCBC grad was counseled to work for Larry, Sr.

Read all 28 pages (it starts out slowly). Victims posted. Letter from new pastor at church in CT where Mark had given a public confession - he is still counseling Mark's underage victims. Attempts to bring the truth to the blindly loyal deacons of his current church, etc. And this man is still welcomed at LBC!

http://www.sflforums.com/showthread.php?tid=4303

You might have a future with TMZ.

 

[qwerty]

Tim Christoson has been doing his job for a long time, is not a novice, and knew exactly what he was saying. IMHO They denied Jeremy was an asst pastor, which was false.

Stuff Fundies Like has also posted about this situation (along with the Bill Gothard perv and BJU Cover Up stories). It has been alleged Jeremy Whitman had an affair. This is not the first source I have heard this accusation from, and the sources are pretty solid. If this was the reason he left LBC, then certainly the congregation should have been made aware of it since he was an asst. pastor. Transparency would demand it...but IMHO PC is not even close to being transparent. It is just a well crafted façade...again IMHO.

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2014/02/friday-news-roundup/

It is hard to give someone the benefit of the doubt when you do not trust them as far as you could throw them.

Tries to appear not to support pervs in the pastorate, but then quietly supports his brother's and father's ministries. WCBC tour group sings at Freeway Baptist and a WCBC staff member praises Mark to his members from the pulpit. Mark brings large delegations to Paul's conferences (including youth to Youth Conference...Can there be a larger red flag?) A WCBC grad was counseled to work for Larry, Sr.

Read all 28 pages (it starts out slowly). Victims posted. Letter from new pastor at church in CT where Mark had given a public confession - he is still counseling Mark's underage victims. Attempts to bring the truth to the blindly loyal deacons of his current church, etc. And this man is still welcomed at LBC!

http://www.sflforums.com/showthread.php?tid=4303

You might have a future with TMZ.

Elvis sighting reporter?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Tim Christoson has been doing his job for a long time, is not a novice, and knew exactly what he was saying. IMHO They denied Jeremy was an asst pastor, which was false.

Stuff Fundies Like has also posted about this situation (along with the Bill Gothard perv and BJU Cover Up stories). It has been alleged Jeremy Whitman had an affair. This is not the first source I have heard this accusation from, and the sources are pretty solid. If this was the reason he left LBC, then certainly the congregation should have been made aware of it since he was an asst. pastor. Transparency would demand it...but IMHO PC is not even close to being transparent. It is just a well crafted façade...again IMHO.

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2014/02/friday-news-roundup/

It is hard to give someone the benefit of the doubt when you do not trust them as far as you could throw them.

Tries to appear not to support pervs in the pastorate, but then quietly supports his brother's and father's ministries. WCBC tour group sings at Freeway Baptist and a WCBC staff member praises Mark to his members from the pulpit. Mark brings large delegations to Paul's conferences (including youth to Youth Conference...Can there be a larger red flag?) A WCBC grad was counseled to work for Larry, Sr.

Read all 28 pages (it starts out slowly). Victims posted. Letter from new pastor at church in CT where Mark had given a public confession - he is still counseling Mark's underage victims. Attempts to bring the truth to the blindly loyal deacons of his current church, etc. And this man is still welcomed at LBC!

http://www.sflforums.com/showthread.php?tid=4303

As to the OP's subject matter, I repeat

Guilt by association or guilty until proven innocent?
Either way, it's all heat and no light.

AGAIN I say....If they were wrong or did wrong, give them all 10 years in the gas chamber....but, so far, all I've read here is innuendo, gossip and all of the evil things other IFBs have done over the years.

And, I understand Jack Schaap is in prison.....

 

[subllibrm]

This is all the more evidence that the whole IFB is one corrupt giant institution with tentacles reaching into every IFB congregation in the world, orchestrating not only the cover up of gross sin but actually promoting and encouraging it among it's leadership. They have now moved on from sexual and spiritual abuse to outright murder. The destructive power of unaccountable men has finally hit the apex of evil doing.

Or at least that would be how the conspiracy theorists like Jerri Massie would like it spun.

Had to get the sarcasm off my chest.

Carry on.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Brian/Texas Tumbleweed ~

Nice to learn more about you, though I am sorry for the breakup of your marriage, as I always am in such situations.

I agree with you on everything you said, especially "let's bury this thing & move on with our lives" and "not tearing down a good church that has helped thousands of people".

As for Bro. Chappell "idolizing" Jeremy and "forgetting" Erik?  If (God forbid!!) my son ever killed his best friend, I would obviously & understandably have many fond memories to share of my son and very little to say about his friend whom I did not know.  I've watched the videos and read everything Dr. Chappell has said in print and I see nothing that would pass for "idolizing". 

Again, agreeing with Brian, there are issues here we will never know about, nor should we.  Proverbs 19:11 "The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression."  LBC is handling this with "discretion", not making every detail public which, in my understanding of Scripture, is God's intended way of handling such things.

Proverbs 29:11 "A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards."  There's been a lot of folks "uttering all there mind" on this forum, and only a few acting as "wise men" (& women).

Hopefully, we can strive to "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." Ephesians 4:29

But if we did, FFF and others like it would cease to exist.

Sorry, Roy.  I just gotta jump in here.

You seem to have joined for the purpose of quieting criticism of your MOG.  Please remember that criticism can be a good thing.  I know very few people at LBC.  I have never been there.  I am not completely familiar with the complex inner workings of that place.  I do, however, know very well the cloth from which the institution is cut. 

I have heard your arguments used to cover a multitude of sins, offenses, vice and crime.  The Bible nowhere tells us to turn the other cheek and allow sin to continue.  Your argument prevents Nathan from proclaiming "thou art the man" and refuses to hear the instruction of the prophets.  Peace, Peace, when there is no peace is proclaimed to us by admonishing us to pass over a transgression. 

We on the forum have no need to know all of the family details.  I have never claimed that we do.  Those are private and should be.  However - PLEASE - do not admonish people to accept what they believe to be sin because their MOG is involved.

Sorry Binaca Chugger, I just gotta jump in here.

This is the type of misdirection many are accusing Tim Christoson of. You are obviously an intelligent individual, and understand misdirection well. You yourself claim to be the victim of misdirection from FBCH, (which claim BTW, I have no reason to doubt).

Here is your misdirection.
You are correct, we are not supposed to turn the other cheek and allow sin to continue. What sin is Roy Payne turning the other cheek to and allowing to continue?

Here is is again
You then go on to admonish Roy Payne for admonishing those whose MOG is in (as yet unknown and yet to be determined) sin, and yet for the vast, vast majority of people posting, (at least in this thread) Paul Chapell is not their MOG in any way shape or form. Me included.

To malign someone without evidence or just cause is the sin of slander.
Proverbs 10:18  He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.

This same word is also translated
Infamy
Proverbs 25:9-10  Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another: Lest he that heareth it put thee to shame, and thine infamy turn not away.

and Defaming
Jeremiah 20:10  For I heard the defaming of many, fear on every side. Report, say they, and we will report it. All my familiars watched for my halting, saying, Peradventure he will be enticed, and we shall prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him.

 

[Roy Payne]

Thank You, Tarheel ~

You were right in your interpretation while Binaca (and others) refuse to take off their dirt-stained glasses long enough to see without prejudice.

My multiple "admonishments" have been to exhort the BELIEVERS on FFF to behave AS believers.  I've supported what I've said with the clear teaching of Scripture.  And as I tell my congregation, if you are offended by that, your argument is not with me ... It's with God Who wrote the Bible.

I am constantly amazed that there are those who claim to be saved, but when confronted by Scripture, their response is, "Yes, but ..." or "Yes, but I think ...".

Anybody who says, "Yes, but ..." in the face of Scriptural teaching is not someone I care to listen to at all.

Without apology I say, "I don't care what you think."  I do care what God's Word says and I continue to challenge every Christian on this forum to obey Scripture.

If you're not saved, then go ahead on.  All your righteousness is as "filthy rags" in God's sight.  I'll pray that you confess your sins, repent, and receive the payment that Jesus made on the cross for your sin.

Those who are saved, you remind me of Jude 1:12-13.  You need to get your heart right and let your hurt & anger go!!

Oh, for the record, I got on this site looking for information.  What I got was a lot of evil gossip.

 

[Roy Payne]

Thank You, Itinerrant Preacher.

You are right ... Paul Chappell is not MY man of God (I am a local church pastor in Missouri), but he is A man of God and I respect him.

As I've said, if I lived in Lancaster, he would definitely be my pastor!!

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Roy Payne]I've supported what I've said with the clear teaching of Scripture.  And as I tell my congregation, if you are offended by that, your argument is not with me ... It's with God Who wrote the Bible.

I am constantly amazed that there are those who claim to be saved, but when confronted by Scripture, their response is, "Yes, but ..." or "Yes, but I think ...".

Anybody who says, "Yes, but ..." in the face of Scriptural teaching is not someone I care to listen to at all.

Without apology I say, "I don't care what you think."  I do care what God's Word says and I continue to challenge every Christian on this forum to obey Scripture.[/quote]

And anyone who refuses to acknowledge that their understanding of Scripture is their understanding and who proclaims "Thus sayeth the LORD" about their own views is not someone I care to listen to at all.

 

[ALAYMAN]

ahhhhh, the POMO/Emergent catch-all.  Can we really ever know anything?  Why be so dogmatic?  Can't we just ask questions?  Do we actually need answers, or authority, at all?

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

ahhhhh, the POMO/Emergent catch-all.  Can we really ever know anything?  Why be so dogmatic?  Can't we just ask questions?  Do we actually need answers, or authority, at all?

Bingo. We don't have to follow the scriptures because:
A. We will never really know what God meant, or
B. Thats just your interpretation, or
C. That was then and this is now

Baptism by immersion only? We will never really know
Modest dress? That's just your interpretation of what modest is.
Women Preachers? That was then and this is now.