Jeremy Whitman Lancaster Baptist Church Does anyone know anything about this?

[16KJV11]

Have you ever personally known anyone who became seriously addicted to prescription pain medication? I have, and have seen people do insane, illegal, immoral,  extremely desperate things to get another fix and turn into people you wouldn't even recognize anymore. There's a big difference between "taking a few pain pills" and becoming seriously, physically addicted to them. I know a couple people who have become addicted after taking them for a legitimate injury and subsequently died of an accidental overdose, as well.

That's too easy of an indictment.  It's much more interesting and entertaining to play George Noory and assume something more sinister and foreign behind this tragic event.  :

 

[Mamabella]

Why was Chappell the one to let the families know of Jeremy's death?! Isn't that something the police do?

I don't know the answer, but I have a couple of ideas.
1) one of the responding officers was a church member (there are a lot of them) and recognized Jeremy as being the deceased, and called Pastor to help bring the news to the family. I know I'd like to have my pastor present while receiving such news from the police.

2) Jeremy left a suicide note in the car asking for him to be notified first and to tell his family.  This is believable to me as well because I know how much he loved his children, and he would've wanted it to be as least traumatic as possible (in his own twisted way of thinking).

Regardless, I don't think there's anything sinister about it.

 

[Mamabella]

Erik Ungerman had not attended LBC in many years and was not currently a member of the church. He *may*have still been on the roll, but nonetheless, was not an active member and had not been for quite some time.

After Chappell was publicly kicked around he posted about giving the victim's family assistance.

http://www.paulchappell.com/.../an-update-on-the.../

The will be holding some kind of memorial for church members during tomorrow's Sunday night church service...is that even remotely appropriate? At a regular church service?

I still don't get it.  Why is there only one sentence dedicated to the church member who was murdered?

PC now proclaims that JW left employment, family, his whole world, because he was on a prescription drug after a surgery?  ???  I know first hand that those things can make you goofy, but........

I still cry foul.

 

[Mamabella]

I'm friends on FB with literally hundreds of LBC church members and they absolutely have been posting about it. Just because the posts are set to "friends only" rather than "public", doesn't mean they aren't posting. I never post anything on public on FB. There's also an entire group on fb dedicated to it. Also, I know for an absolute fact that no one was ordered not to speak to Jeremy, so we can go ahead and nip that rumor in the bud. Several friends of mine had continually tried to reach out to him over text and phone over the past months and he refused to respond to anyone, even friends he'd known for many, many years.

Chappell and his bestie, the mayor of Lancaster, are claiming it was the result of an addiction to prescription drugs and there is almost absolute silence from members. Seriously, they post recipes and prayer memes on fb.

Prescription drugs can cause a real addiction, but not typically the kind that makes you hunt down your best friend and kill him brutally then go kill yourself.

There needs to be toxicology reports and a thorough investigation. Being hush-hush helps no one.

Also, it appears staff was told to avoid talking to Jeremy...so how much did they really try to help him? Jeremy's motivation can not be covered up...whatever it was.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Erik Ungerman had not attended LBC in many years and was not currently a member of the church. He *may*have still been on the roll, but nonetheless, was not an active member and had not been for quite some time.

If you know this first hand, which I have no reason to doubt you do, it certainly changes the context of the allegations and mis/dis information.

I have had people leave the church I pastor. The illustration of marriage and the believers relationship to the church is deep. When most people leave a church it is like they are going through a divorce. No one wants to spend time with an ex spouse, no matter who is right or wrong. But here, we assume it is the pastors fault if someone leaves. People leave more often for wrong reasons than because the pastor is at fault.

I repeat, if someone has knowledge of criminal activity, call the police. Step forward. It is a gutless chicken act to simply respond "well, don't go to the sheriff's office, they're his cronies too." Ridiculous. Then call the state police, call the FBI, raise a stink no one can ignore.

The reality is, those who are the quickest to accuse likely know of no actual wrong except rumour and conjecture, and that feeds their self pity. They feel vindicated. They didn't believe what the church believed but left because they weren't allowed to sing a special, or teach a class, or be a deacon. And now, any time any one criticizes the church that "did them wrong", they jump all over it.

That's the FFF in a nutshell, and truthfully, most of the blogs and pundits on the internet as well.

PS. The post above this came in as I was typing. Seems a little of my point was proven.

 

[Bruh]

I completely agree. Those who have been molested need to report it directly to the police and I have encouraged them to do it. Someone else even posted the number for the child abuse section of the Sheriff's dept. to help direct them to the right dept.

If any of the victims had reported it to the church or school and it was not reported to the police, it would potentially be criminal since they are mandatory reporters. In house investigations do not cut it. Having David Gibbs investigate does not cut it either.  This has been a really common problem in IFBx churches (Hyles, Trinity, NVBC, etc.). Take it directly to the police, always!

Here are some of the posts I was referring to (also note some folks don't even trust the local Sheriffs because of their affiliation with LBC - wow):


Dosomething

January 22, 2014 at 12:17 pm


By all means report it now! Call the Lancaster Sheriff’s Station at 661-948-8466! Tell them you need to speak to a child abuse detective. Children are in danger! You can report from a distance!

People don’t realize that current state law allows for the extension of the statute of limitations all the way back to incidents that occurred in the 1980′s! That teacher can and should go to jail!!

Save another child and please call in a report!

***************************************************************

hands are tied

January 22, 2014 at 12:23 pm


Don’t report it to the Lancaster Sheriff’s Station. Most of them go to that church and I guarantee you justice will not be served.

It will be swept under the carpet.

If you want real justice report it to the State law enforcement agencies.

Sorry, let me clarify…. that is “a lot” not most…

*********************************************************************

Dosomething

January 22, 2014 at 12:40 pm


Ok, if that’s the concern, call the LASD Child Abuse Unit in L.A. directly at 562-946-8531. No church affiliation there! BUT CALL!

NO!!!  My point is, if you know this to be true then you are responsible to report it to the proper authorities.  If you are not willing then all you are doing is being slanderous. 

 

[qwerty]

I completely agree. Those who have been molested need to report it directly to the police and I have encouraged them to do it. Someone else even posted the number for the child abuse section of the Sheriff's dept. to help direct them to the right dept.

If any of the victims had reported it to the church or school and it was not reported to the police, it would potentially be criminal since they are mandatory reporters. In house investigations do not cut it. Having David Gibbs investigate does not cut it either.  This has been a really common problem in IFBx churches (Hyles, Trinity, NVBC, etc.). Take it directly to the police, always!

Here are some of the posts I was referring to (also note some folks don't even trust the local Sheriffs because of their affiliation with LBC - wow):


Dosomething

January 22, 2014 at 12:17 pm


By all means report it now! Call the Lancaster Sheriff’s Station at 661-948-8466! Tell them you need to speak to a child abuse detective. Children are in danger! You can report from a distance!

People don’t realize that current state law allows for the extension of the statute of limitations all the way back to incidents that occurred in the 1980′s! That teacher can and should go to jail!!

Save another child and please call in a report!

***************************************************************

hands are tied

January 22, 2014 at 12:23 pm


Don’t report it to the Lancaster Sheriff’s Station. Most of them go to that church and I guarantee you justice will not be served.

It will be swept under the carpet.

If you want real justice report it to the State law enforcement agencies.

Sorry, let me clarify…. that is “a lot” not most…

*********************************************************************

Dosomething

January 22, 2014 at 12:40 pm


Ok, if that’s the concern, call the LASD Child Abuse Unit in L.A. directly at 562-946-8531. No church affiliation there! BUT CALL!

NO!!!  My point is, if you know this to be true then you are responsible to report it to the proper authorities.  If you are not willing then all you are doing is being slanderous.

But there are comments in an article!
8)

 

[Mamabella]

Approximately nine months. I'm not saying the addiction directly caused him to murder someone, but led him into a high risk, dangerous lifestyle and put him in a completely different frame of mind. It was certainly a contributing factor, as I highly doubt he would've committed a murder or suicide before becoming an addict.

Have you ever personally known anyone who became seriously addicted to prescription pain medication? I have, and have seen people do insane, illegal, immoral,  extremely desperate things to get another fix and turn into people you wouldn't even recognize anymore. There's a big difference between "taking a few pain pills" and becoming seriously, physically addicted to them. I know a couple people who have become addicted after taking them for a legitimate injury and subsequently died of an accidental overdose, as well.

After Chappell was publicly kicked around he posted about giving the victim's family assistance.

http://www.paulchappell.com/.../an-update-on-the.../

The will be holding some kind of memorial for church members during tomorrow's Sunday night church service...is that even remotely appropriate? At a regular church service?

a

I still don't get it.  Why is there only one sentence dedicated to the church member who was murdered?

PC now proclaims that JW left employment, family, his whole world, because he was on a prescription drug after a surgery?  ???  I know first hand that those things can make you goofy, but........

I still cry foul.

Yes, I've known people who have done crazy things to feed their habit like stealing other people's, or money to buy it, and such like but hardly an excuse for murder. How old was this alleged addiction?

..a few months?

Nice try. Not buying it!

 

[Mamabella]

For the record, I want to state that I've been impressed by the church and pastor Chappell's response to this. I think he's doing very well considering the difficult  circumstances and it has been discussed in every service since the tragedy. He's done special mini messages about grief and trials and has brought in a grief counselor. He's being very open about what has led up to this, although of course the investigation is ongoing and we don't have all the facts yet. Keep in mind Bro Jeremy had distanced himself from the church and everyone in it, so pastor didn't know every single detail of his "new" life. In the past incidents (none this huge) may have been swept under the rug a bit, but I truly feel he is living up to his desire to be more transparent and not cover things up.

 

[Mamabella]

Have you ever personally known anyone who became seriously addicted to prescription pain medication? I have, and have seen people do insane, illegal, immoral,  extremely desperate things to get another fix and turn into people you wouldn't even recognize anymore. There's a big difference between "taking a few pain pills" and becoming seriously, physically addicted to them. I know a couple people who have become addicted after taking them for a legitimate injury and subsequently died of an accidental overdose, as well.

That's too easy of an indictment.  It's much more interesting and entertaining to play George Noory and assume something more sinister and foreign behind this tragic event.  :

Very true!

 

[Mamabella]

Excellent post, thank you for your perspective.  I really appreciate it. I think you're very correct. Also, I completely agree with what you said about the child abuse allegations. To me they're completely unbelievable if they refuse to report them to the police. The idea that pastor Chappell has every police officer in Lancaster under his thumb is completely ludicrous. Not to mention, like others have stated, you can call the child abuse hotline, DCF, the state police, or the FBI. If I found out my child had been sexually abused, I'd be reporting it to anyone who would listen immediately. Full stop. And anyone who refuses to report sexual abuse of their child is highly suspect to me.

Erik Ungerman had not attended LBC in many years and was not currently a member of the church. He *may*have still been on the roll, but nonetheless, was not an active member and had not been for quite some time.

If you know this first hand, which I have no reason to doubt you do, it certainly changes the context of the allegations and mis/dis information.

I have had people leave the church I pastor. The illustration of marriage and the believers relationship to the church is deep. When most people leave a church it is like they are going through a divorce. No one wants to spend time with an ex spouse, no matter who is right or wrong. But here, we assume it is the pastors fault if someone leaves. People leave more often for wrong reasons than because the pastor is at fault.

I repeat, if someone has knowledge of criminal activity, call the police. Step forward. It is a gutless chicken act to simply respond "well, don't go to the sheriff's office, they're his cronies too." Ridiculous. Then call the state police, call the FBI, raise a stink no one can ignore.

The reality is, those who are the quickest to accuse likely know of no actual wrong except rumour and conjecture, and that feeds their self pity. They feel vindicated. They didn't believe what the church believed but left because they weren't allowed to sing a special, or teach a class, or be a deacon. And now, any time any one criticizes the church that "did them wrong", they jump all over it.

That's the FFF in a nutshell, and truthfully, most of the blogs and pundits on the internet as well.

PS. The post above this came in as I was typing. Seems a little of my point was proven.

 

[Holy Mole]

For the record, I want to state that I've been impressed by the church and pastor Chappell's response to this.

For the record, a few words into your first post on this forum and there was no doubt as to that. Are you on staff there?

A student in the college?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Erik Ungerman had not attended LBC in many years and was not currently a member of the church. He *may*have still been on the roll, but nonetheless, was not an active member and had not been for quite some time.

If you know this first hand, which I have no reason to doubt you do, it certainly changes the context of the allegations and mis/dis information.

I have had people leave the church I pastor. The illustration of marriage and the believers relationship to the church is deep. When most people leave a church it is like they are going through a divorce. No one wants to spend time with an ex spouse, no matter who is right or wrong. But here, we assume it is the pastors fault if someone leaves. People leave more often for wrong reasons than because the pastor is at fault.

I repeat, if someone has knowledge of criminal activity, call the police. Step forward. It is a gutless chicken act to simply respond "well, don't go to the sheriff's office, they're his cronies too." Ridiculous. Then call the state police, call the FBI, raise a stink no one can ignore.

The reality is, those who are the quickest to accuse likely know of no actual wrong except rumour and conjecture, and that feeds their self pity. They feel vindicated. They didn't believe what the church believed but left because they weren't allowed to sing a special, or teach a class, or be a deacon. And now, any time any one criticizes the church that "did them wrong", they jump all over it.

That's the FFF in a nutshell, and truthfully, most of the blogs and pundits on the internet as well.

PS. The post above this came in as I was typing. Seems a little of my point was proven.

Not quite. 

Most of us here are fairly level headed.  We have been hurt deeply by the lies, cover-ups and false religion of the PBC found in the NADD that is the IFBx.  Most of the conversation on this forum is poking fun at ourselves, or theological debates that are well beyond name-calling.  Interestingly, while you attack the regulars here for exaggeration and jumping to conclusions and false accusations, you have done the same about us.  I will forgive you for committing the exact sin of which you accuse the brethren.

Personally, I hope the family and the friends and the church DOES read this forum.  Maybe they will have the courage to ask some real questions and not be told what to think by the leadership of the church.  While theories may be abounding on other sites, we have simply pointed out that this wreaks of the typical IFB cover-up.

Maybe PC is being forthcoming.  Maybe there is nothing more to the story.  Maybe the story is only personal and involves no one other than the family.  However, it seems like the story keeps changing. We read in the press that the two deceased were best friends while posters here claim they had had little or nothing to do with each other for some time.  This story is so reminiscent of the others we have seen recently in the fundamental circles - all of which were crimes of passion.  On the forum, we will never know the real back story. 

However, we can remind those involved of the fiascoes in times past at other similar churches.  We can point out what was done wrong so that the same mistakes are not made again.  We can attempt to point people to be honest, be willing to confess and be willing to face their offenders.  We can ask that Bible discipline would be met with Bible confession to be followed by Bible forgiveness which extends the love of Christ and helps the offender who repents.  We can encourage the offended to recognize that the best thing for the ministry is that Truth prevail and crimes be brought to justice. 

The internet, primarily the FFF, is a great place for such encouragement.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Excellent post, thank you for your perspective.  I really appreciate it. I think you're very correct. Also, I completely agree with what you said about the child abuse allegations. To me they're completely unbelievable if they refuse to report them to the police. The idea that pastor Chappell has every police officer in Lancaster under his thumb is completely ludicrous. Not to mention, like others have stated, you can call the child abuse hotline, DCF, the state police, or the FBI. If I found out my child had been sexually abused, I'd be reporting it to anyone who would listen immediately. Full stop. And anyone who refuses to report sexual abuse of their child is highly suspect to me.

Erik Ungerman had not attended LBC in many years and was not currently a member of the church. He *may*have still been on the roll, but nonetheless, was not an active member and had not been for quite some time.

If you know this first hand, which I have no reason to doubt you do, it certainly changes the context of the allegations and mis/dis information.

I have had people leave the church I pastor. The illustration of marriage and the believers relationship to the church is deep. When most people leave a church it is like they are going through a divorce. No one wants to spend time with an ex spouse, no matter who is right or wrong. But here, we assume it is the pastors fault if someone leaves. People leave more often for wrong reasons than because the pastor is at fault.

I repeat, if someone has knowledge of criminal activity, call the police. Step forward. It is a gutless chicken act to simply respond "well, don't go to the sheriff's office, they're his cronies too." Ridiculous. Then call the state police, call the FBI, raise a stink no one can ignore.

The reality is, those who are the quickest to accuse likely know of no actual wrong except rumour and conjecture, and that feeds their self pity. They feel vindicated. They didn't believe what the church believed but left because they weren't allowed to sing a special, or teach a class, or be a deacon. And now, any time any one criticizes the church that "did them wrong", they jump all over it.

That's the FFF in a nutshell, and truthfully, most of the blogs and pundits on the internet as well.

PS. The post above this came in as I was typing. Seems a little of my point was proven.

You really don't understand abuse.  Your lack of knowledge and subsequent wisdom on this topic should cause you to not respond.  Spend some time studying real books (not just those published by your pastor), counseling real abuse victims and go with them to report or face their offender - then come back to the forum.  I think you will modify your posts.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Have you ever personally known anyone who became seriously addicted to prescription pain medication? I have, and have seen people do insane, illegal, immoral,  extremely desperate things to get another fix and turn into people you wouldn't even recognize anymore. There's a big difference between "taking a few pain pills" and becoming seriously, physically addicted to them. I know a couple people who have become addicted after taking them for a legitimate injury and subsequently died of an accidental overdose, as well.

After Chappell was publicly kicked around he posted about giving the victim's family assistance.

http://www.paulchappell.com/.../an-update-on-the.../

The will be holding some kind of memorial for church members during tomorrow's Sunday night church service...is that even remotely appropriate? At a regular church service?

a

I still don't get it.  Why is there only one sentence dedicated to the church member who was murdered?

PC now proclaims that JW left employment, family, his whole world, because he was on a prescription drug after a surgery?  ???  I know first hand that those things can make you goofy, but........

I still cry foul.

Yes.  I have.  I have worked with many to help them off the meds.  Many of my close friends who are State Troopers and narcotics agents have seen these things also.  A murder-suicide is a rare thing.  Very rare.  Especially when there is nothing taken during the murder, shots are continued to be fired as the vehicle drives away (indicating rage), the murderer drives off, thinks, and then takes his own life.  These are rare indeed.  Even for a meth addict.  Most addicts beg - their crimes for the next hit involve an element of begging.  This situation lacks that element.

 

[Mamabella]

I was sexually abused as a child. 

Excellent post, thank you for your perspective.  I really appreciate it. I think you're very correct. Also, I completely agree with what you said about the child abuse allegations. To me they're completely unbelievable if they refuse to report them to the police. The idea that pastor Chappell has every police officer in Lancaster under his thumb is completely ludicrous. Not to mention, like others have stated, you can call the child abuse hotline, DCF, the state police, or the FBI. If I found out my child had been sexually abused, I'd be reporting it to anyone who would listen immediately. Full stop. And anyone who refuses to report sexual abuse of their child is highly suspect to me.

Erik Ungerman had not attended LBC in many years and was not currently a member of the church. He *may*have still been on the roll, but nonetheless, was not an active member and had not been for quite some time.

If you know this first hand, which I have no reason to doubt you do, it certainly changes the context of the allegations and mis/dis information.

I have had people leave the church I pastor. The illustration of marriage and the believers relationship to the church is deep. When most people leave a church it is like they are going through a divorce. No one wants to spend time with an ex spouse, no matter who is right or wrong. But here, we assume it is the pastors fault if someone leaves. People leave more often for wrong reasons than because the pastor is at fault.

I repeat, if someone has knowledge of criminal activity, call the police. Step forward. It is a gutless chicken act to simply respond "well, don't go to the sheriff's office, they're his cronies too." Ridiculous. Then call the state police, call the FBI, raise a stink no one can ignore.

The reality is, those who are the quickest to accuse likely know of no actual wrong except rumour and conjecture, and that feeds their self pity. They feel vindicated. They didn't believe what the church believed but left because they weren't allowed to sing a special, or teach a class, or be a deacon. And now, any time any one criticizes the church that "did them wrong", they jump all over it.

That's the FFF in a nutshell, and truthfully, most of the blogs and pundits on the internet as well.

PS. The post above this came in as I was typing. Seems a little of my point was proven.

You really don't understand abuse.  Your lack of knowledge and subsequent wisdom on this topic should cause you to not respond.  Spend some time studying real books (not just those published by your pastor), counseling real abuse victims and go with them to report or face their offender - then come back to the forum.  I think you will modify your posts.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

As was my wife. I also pastor victims of incest and war vets suffering from PTSD. I am not ignorant of what I speak Binaca Chugger. It is very true there are those who suffer from abuse. But to go from that truth to the conclusion that FFF is a cathartic haven for them is ludicrous.

I was sexually abused as a child.

Excellent post, thank you for your perspective.  I really appreciate it. I think you're very correct. Also, I completely agree with what you said about the child abuse allegations. To me they're completely unbelievable if they refuse to report them to the police. The idea that pastor Chappell has every police officer in Lancaster under his thumb is completely ludicrous. Not to mention, like others have stated, you can call the child abuse hotline, DCF, the state police, or the FBI. If I found out my child had been sexually abused, I'd be reporting it to anyone who would listen immediately. Full stop. And anyone who refuses to report sexual abuse of their child is highly suspect to me.

Erik Ungerman had not attended LBC in many years and was not currently a member of the church. He *may*have still been on the roll, but nonetheless, was not an active member and had not been for quite some time.

If you know this first hand, which I have no reason to doubt you do, it certainly changes the context of the allegations and mis/dis information.

I have had people leave the church I pastor. The illustration of marriage and the believers relationship to the church is deep. When most people leave a church it is like they are going through a divorce. No one wants to spend time with an ex spouse, no matter who is right or wrong. But here, we assume it is the pastors fault if someone leaves. People leave more often for wrong reasons than because the pastor is at fault.

I repeat, if someone has knowledge of criminal activity, call the police. Step forward. It is a gutless chicken act to simply respond "well, don't go to the sheriff's office, they're his cronies too." Ridiculous. Then call the state police, call the FBI, raise a stink no one can ignore.

The reality is, those who are the quickest to accuse likely know of no actual wrong except rumour and conjecture, and that feeds their self pity. They feel vindicated. They didn't believe what the church believed but left because they weren't allowed to sing a special, or teach a class, or be a deacon. And now, any time any one criticizes the church that "did them wrong", they jump all over it.

That's the FFF in a nutshell, and truthfully, most of the blogs and pundits on the internet as well.

PS. The post above this came in as I was typing. Seems a little of my point was proven.

You really don't understand abuse.  Your lack of knowledge and subsequent wisdom on this topic should cause you to not respond.  Spend some time studying real books (not just those published by your pastor), counseling real abuse victims and go with them to report or face their offender - then come back to the forum.  I think you will modify your posts.

 

[JrChurch]

Have you ever personally known anyone who became seriously addicted to prescription pain medication? I have, and have seen people do insane, illegal, immoral,  extremely desperate things to get another fix and turn into people you wouldn't even recognize anymore. There's a big difference between "taking a few pain pills" and becoming seriously, physically addicted to them. I know a couple people who have become addicted after taking them for a legitimate injury and subsequently died of an accidental overdose, as well.

I am not going to address the situation in the OP because I don't know if it is a fact that the man was affected by prescription drugs.
What I will address is what little I know about prescription drug abuse.  My husband had to work at a pain clinic at least once a week for about 3 years and the desperation of addicts is something that is difficult to comprehend.  Pain can have an ugly effect on people and sometimes the "cure" is uglier.  Every person is unique. 

To make this personal, my husband will not take narcotics for pain because of the horrible effects he has observed in his patients.  When he had neck surgery and back surgery, he refused narcotics during recovery.  He said he has seen it ruin too many minds.  Plus, he thinks it inhibits the positive effects of the body's endorphin release.  But, we won't get into that.

 

[Mamabella]

Really? I thought my first couple posts sounded a bit harsh. Lol, nope. Just a regular ol' church member for the past 10 years. No staff,  no college. Just volunteer stuff.

For the record, I want to state that I've been impressed by the church and pastor Chappell's response to this.

For the record, a few words into your first post on this forum and there was no doubt as to that. Are you on staff there?

A student in the college?

 

[Mamabella]

Also, we don't know if he had moved on to different/stronger drugs. I assume the toxicology screen will shed light on the situation. 

Have you ever personally known anyone who became seriously addicted to prescription pain medication? I have, and have seen people do insane, illegal, immoral,  extremely desperate things to get another fix and turn into people you wouldn't even recognize anymore. There's a big difference between "taking a few pain pills" and becoming seriously, physically addicted to them. I know a couple people who have become addicted after taking them for a legitimate injury and subsequently died of an accidental overdose, as well.

I am not going to address the situation in the OP because I don't know if it is a fact that the man was affected by prescription drugs.
What I will address is what little I know about prescription drug abuse.  My husband had to work at a pain clinic at least once a week for about 3 years and the desperation of addicts is something that is difficult to comprehend.  Pain can have an ugly effect on people and sometimes the "cure" is uglier.  Every person is unique. 

To make this personal, my husband will not take narcotics for pain because of the horrible effects he has observed in his patients.  When he had neck surgery and back surgery, he refused narcotics during recovery.  He said he has seen it ruin too many minds.  Plus, he thinks it inhibits the positive effects of the body's endorphin release.  But, we won't get into that.