Jesus was a "friend of sinners"?

[Citadel of Truth]

So as not to continue the derailing of another thread, I would like to explore this topic and share my thoughts on the matter. It was asked earlier:

Did Jesus associate with women, prostitutes and the culturally despised?

I guess, for me, the key word would be "associate." To me, this implies that Jesus "hung out" regularly with such people. That He spent large quantities of time with them. That He wanted to be "identified" with them.

It is interesting that the ones who said that Jesus was a "friend of sinners" were they same people (the religious lost) who said that John the Baptist was a devil.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' But wisdom is justified by her children." (Matthew 11:18, 19)

I read in other passages that Jesus sat down for a meal and "publicans and sinners" came to Jesus and sat down with Him.

What I do not read is that Jesus lowered Himself to their standard just to reach them. Jesus was a friend to sinners, but He was not a compromiser. Jesus was always the One who influenced the sinner, never letting the sinner influence Him.

The problem with throwing around the justification for whom we associate with by saying, "After all, Jesus was a friend of sinners" is that, we are not Jesus. We are much too easily influenced by sin. Paul said, "Do not be deceived: 'Evil company corrupts good habits.'" (I Corinthians 15:33)

It is my firm belief that Jesus' association with any lost person was to bring them to saving faith in Himself. That is the greatest display of friendship we could offer anyone.

He wasn't condescending, critical, rude, or isolated; but, He most certainly never condoned or excused their sin.

Yes, He ate with Simon the leper, but that was by invitation and He used the occasion to teach Simon a very important life lesson.

 

[rsc2a]

"...was not a compromiser..."

Jesus was quite intentional in his ignoring many of the standards set by the 'acceptable' crowd. In fact,  His eating with the unsavory sorts was itself a blatant disregard for those standards.

 

[Boomer]

"...was not a compromiser..."

Jesus was quite intentional in his ignoring many of the standards set by the 'acceptable' crowd. In fact,  His eating with the unsavory sorts was itself a blatant disregard for those standards.

To be fair, Jesus never compromised His own standard of holiness. Jesus never lived by the Pharisees' standard, therefore eating with publicans and sinners would not constitute "compromise" on His part.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I think it's a mistake to assume everything Paul wrote was from God, and therefore should be treated as the very words of God.  Paul was a Pharisee, and still had a lot of Pharisaical character traits ingrained in him. 

The bottom line is if Paul says X, but the example of Jesus teaches Y, then I'll go with Y. 

 

[rsc2a]

"...was not a compromiser..."

Jesus was quite intentional in his ignoring many of the standards set by the 'acceptable' crowd. In fact,  His eating with the unsavory sorts was itself a blatant disregard for those standards.

To be fair, Jesus never compromised His own standard of holiness. Jesus never lived by the Pharisees' standard, therefore eating with publicans and sinners would not constitute "compromise" on His part.

And I see no compelling reason to think His standards would look anything like the emphasis many have on clothing,  music,  Bible version,  who to avoid (quite opposite actually), public schooling,  'cuss' words, alcohol, and the litany of other garbage many focus on.

The standard Jesus sets has to do with compassion, mercy,  forgiveness,  doing good when evil is done to you, reliance on God (say instead of your favorite politician), charity,  honesty,  empathy,  and love.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Remember the culture of that day. You see how women are treated in the Mid East/Taliban culture. It was likely the same in 1st century as well, if not worse. With that in mind, he made Mary and Martha "equals" to Himself by having them abandon their domestic services to speak with them on the same playing field as equal adults.

The Samaritan woman who had the wrong type of worship. Jesus leveled the playing field by taking that "worship of the Jews" away from its culture and extending worship to all, even an adulterous, half-breed female.

Look at the disciples. There was the hated tax collector. There was the political zealot. There was the skeptic. There was the impetuous. There was one born of nobility. There was a scam artist. So Jesus DID hang out with those of ill-repute, even if they had or hadn't changed.

He violated the OT Law (which is recorded He kept perfectly) by touching and being touched by women of ill repute, by allowing Himself to be touched by a woman with menstrual medical issues, by touching dead bodies, by touching lepers. These are the people He intentionally was publicly seen with and known to be around.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Look at the disciples. There was the hated tax collector. There was the political zealot. There was the skeptic. There was the impetuous. There was one born of nobility. There was a scam artist. So Jesus DID hang out with those of ill-repute, even if they had or hadn't changed.

"And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God" (I Corinthians 6:11)

Jesus associated with this particular group of men to save them and to train them for a life of service to propagate the gospel message after He was gone. He called all of them out of their former lifestyles. He was "hanging out" with former men of ill-repute. You could, of course, bring up Judas Iscariot; but, outwardly, he looked just like the rest of the disciples going around preaching and doing good.   

He violated the OT Law (which is recorded He kept perfectly) by touching and being touched by women of ill repute, by allowing Himself to be touched by a woman with menstrual medical issues, by touching dead bodies, by touching lepers. These are the people He intentionally was publicly seen with and known to be around.

I do not disagree except to say that these are the people He intentionally was publicly seen with and known to be here to minister to. He said it best when He said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick" (Luke 5:31)

Those are the folks He came to seek and to save. But, I read nowhere in the scripture where He invited those who did not profess Him as Lord to come and follow Him. His "close associates" were His followers - dedicated or not.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Jesus associated with this particular group of men to save them and to train them for a life of service to propagate the gospel message after He was gone. He called all of them out of their former lifestyles. He was "hanging out" with former men of ill-repute. You could, of course, bring up Judas Iscariot; but, outwardly, he looked just like the rest of the disciples going around preaching and doing good.

Who has denied this? I sure haven't.

I do not disagree except to say that these are the people He intentionally was publicly seen with and known to be here to minister to. He said it best when He said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick" (Luke 5:31)

Who was OUTWARDLY being "ministered to" when the whore anointed His feet with oil? (We do know she was ministered to as well by having her sins forgiven. )

Those are the folks He came to seek and to save. But, I read nowhere in the scripture where He invited those who did not profess Him as Lord to come and follow Him. His "close associates" were His followers - dedicated or not.

Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

This guy called Him "Good Teacher" and not "Lord". In actuality, Jesus had many disciples follow Him, perhaps at His beckoning, perhaps out of curiosity, perhaps out of wonder, perhaps out of boredom.

 

[Billy]

We try and put Jesus into our little box and paint Him as a perfect example of our religious belief system..whatever flavor that might be.

What church would Jesus attend if He came to the good ol USA, I have no idea except to say it would IMO be a very diverse group.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

We try and put Jesus into our little box and paint Him as a perfect example of our religious belief system..whatever flavor that might be.

What church would Jesus attend if He came to the good ol USA, I have no idea except to say it would IMO be a very diverse group.

Indeed. And He would be despised by a mass of the religious right, IMHO.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The problem here is that IP used the verse, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them," as a way of saying you shouldn't attend your friend's gay wedding.  The question is, what does it mean to have fellowship with the works of darkness?  That's not talking about fellowship with the people.  It's talking about fellowship with the works. 

So what about, "Be not ye therefore partakers with them?"  Unless you're getting married to a person of the same sex at the wedding, you're not partaking with them.  You're there as a friend. 

 

[rsc2a]

And the religious Left. 

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Who has denied this? I sure haven't.

Your statement, "So Jesus DID hang out with those of ill-repute...," speaking of His disciples, needed to be qualified, IMO. Hence, I attached "former." 

Who was OUTWARDLY being "ministered to" when the whore anointed His feet with oil?

Simon the Leper was openly taught a great truth. The disciples were openly taught a great truth. Everyone in attendance was outwardly helped that day. And, as you mentioned, Mary was greatly helped.

This guy [the rich young ruler] called Him "Good Teacher" and not "Lord". In actuality, Jesus had many disciples follow Him, perhaps at His beckoning, perhaps out of curiosity, perhaps out of wonder, perhaps out of boredom.

Very true; but, how many of these did He make His "close associates"?

I think the question that needs to be asked is, can we justify being closely associated (close friends) with those who are living in open sin* based on the fact that Jesus openly ministered to harlots, publicans, and sinners of all stripes?




*I understand that we are all sinners. I'm talking about those living a lifestyle that is in direct violation of God's Word (drunkards, adulterers, gluttons, homosexuals, etc.).   

 

[Smellin Coffee]

And the religious Left. 

Probably so.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

*I understand that we are all sinners. I'm talking about those living a lifestyle that is in direct violation of God's Word (drunkards, adulterers, gluttons, homosexuals, etc.). 

Which is exactly how his ragtag crew of followers was perceived by the religious leaders who followed the Law.

 

[rsc2a]

You mean the church crowd today acts like the church crowd did back then?

 

[Citadel of Truth]

*I understand that we are all sinners. I'm talking about those living a lifestyle that is in direct violation of God's Word (drunkards, adulterers, gluttons, homosexuals, etc.). 

Which is exactly how his ragtag crew of followers was perceived by the religious leaders who followed the Law.

That is a point well-taken. Relative to that, I am not opposed to befriending anyone with the express purpose of influencing them positively and ultimately leading them to the Lord. What I am against is using Jesus' example as justification to play footsies with the world. Jesus did not do that in any form or fashion.

He made Himself available and even sought out those who needed Him the most. The result was always a changed situation; i.e., "Go, and sin no more."

We have men and women here in our church that have been saved in our jail ministry or in our addictions program. To the world, these folks are felons, thieves, drug addicts, whoremongers, etc. However, I didn't think we were talking about "hanging out" with saved folks who the world perceives to be social outcasts and vile sinners. I thought we were talking about people who were actually engaged in such lifestyles.

 

[rsc2a]

Befriending someone for "the express purpose of..." anything other than being a friend isn't friendship.  It's manipulation.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Befriending someone for "the express purpose of..." anything other than being a friend isn't friendship.  It's manipulation.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

You mean the church crowd today acts like the church crowd did back then?

Songwriter Todd Agnew thinks so, with these lyrics:

'Cause my Jesus would never be accepted in my church
The blood and dirt on His feet might stain the carpet
But He reaches for the hurting and despises the proud
And I think He'd prefer Beale St. to the stained glass crowd
And I know that He can hear me if I cry out loud