Performance based 'Christianity'.

[Tarheel Baptist]

Performance based Christianity is a phrase or a charged often leveled by some here, usually an accusation made toward so called Xers about following their 'standards'.

Some believe a lady wearing pants is wrong...based on some interpretation of Scripture.
Are those people practicing 'performance based Christianity'?

I believe it is sinful to be 'drunk'.
Do my cautions and precautions to remain sober constitute 'performance based Christianity'?

What, exactly is performance based Christianity and how does one follow a prohibition of Scripture without practicing such?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Performance based Christianity is a phrase or a charged often leveled by some here, usually an accusation made toward so called Xers about following their 'standards'.

Some believe a lady wearing pants is wrong...based on some interpretation of Scripture.
Are those people practicing 'performance based Christianity'?

I believe it is sinful to be 'drunk'.
Do my cautions and precautions to remain sober constitute 'performance based Christianity'?

What, exactly is performance based Christianity and how does one follow a prohibition of Scripture without practicing such?

I would define performance based "Christianity" as seeking to please God by any other means than "faith".

Some times, said "faith" involves believing that God will forgive us for our continued failures.... just like He said He would.

If I relied on ability to please God by doing "things".... I'd be in terrible shape. Some might say that's my problem!!!

 

[Citadel of Truth]

What, exactly is performance based Christianity and how does one follow a prohibition of Scripture without practicing such?

I believe "performance-based" Christianity is measuring the success or failure of one's ministry or even their personal walk with God based solely on their "results." This has given rise to the "1-2-3 repeat after me" easy believism in soul winning. Because one's success was measured on how many souls he led to the Lord, he found away to record more numbers. 

 

[prophet]

Performance based Christianity is a phrase or a charged often leveled by some here, usually an accusation made toward so called Xers about following their 'standards'.

Some believe a lady wearing pants is wrong...based on some interpretation of Scripture.
Are those people practicing 'performance based Christianity'?

I believe it is sinful to be 'drunk'.
Do my cautions and precautions to remain sober constitute 'performance based Christianity'?

What, exactly is performance based Christianity and how does one follow a prohibition of Scripture without practicing such?

The charge, as I understand it, is of practicing the scorcery mentioned in Gal. 3.
F.I., I heard a sermon once called "Church Work Makes You a Better Person".
It was a thesis on P.B.C.
Basic theme was: volunteering for whatever your church's program suggests  will guarantee spiritual growth.
The obvious result of this, something I observed in hundreds of people where this was taught, was the "trading" with God to balance out a lack of personal holiness. Of course, the accolades from your fellow man are usually the expected reward.
Many a twisted, perverted, evil, malicious, or prideful person was looked up to for "faithful service".

Some examples:
If you conform to a set of standards, and help put bodies in pews, you are a "leader", and a "servant".
I've watched many of these "leaders" spend 20 years without ever seeing a relative or neighbor influenced to accept Christ, and the "leaders" children grow up to reject the very way that their parent was famous for.

On the other hand, a man who worked at a factory, and through the years had a few coworkers come, with their families, to Christ, and their kids and grandkids following in their godly path, actually led by The Spirit, is not seen as a leader, because he never showed up for "church ministry" or conformed to every manmade standard.

I could fill this thread with what I've seen.

But my next post will be personal testimony.

 

[subllibrm]

When a believer is graded on anything other than spiritual fruit. Not solely an Xer issue. See also; mega church, media airtime, book sales, speaking fees, internet hits.

 

[Fresh Air]

I largely agree with the responses on this thread. Having said that, I still have trouble with those who use the phrase 'performance based Christianity' as a negative phrase. This is b/c in my experience it seems to be used as a justification for a lack of performance. IOW, I don't do much anymore to serve the Lord and I justify it by saying that back in the day I was pushed very hard to do so and that is just 'performance based Christianity.' In essence, then, I am saying that my Christianity has moved beyond performance to a place where I am mature even though I do little/nothing to serve God.

...so, if you want to say that performance based Christianity is wrong b/c it teaches people to rely upon the flesh or to measure their spirituality by numbers then I agree; it is wrong. But if you want to say performance based Christianity is wrong b/c someone is pushing you to actively serve God then I disagree; you are wrong not the one pushing you to serve God.

Not sure that makes sense but I know what I mean in my own mind. As I usually do... 

 

[subllibrm]

For some people, church is the "family business". And before Frag throws a DOEG on me, I am talking about the patriarch of the large family that runs the church from behind the curtain. He has created himself a little fiefdom which he controls and sees his "performance" keeping everyone else in line as doing God's will. When you see junior being groomed to "take over" the controls you have one very nasty version of performance christianity.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Performance based Christianity is a phrase or a charged often leveled by some here, usually an accusation made toward so called Xers about following their 'standards'.

Some believe a lady wearing pants is wrong...based on some interpretation of Scripture.
Are those people practicing 'performance based Christianity'?

I believe it is sinful to be 'drunk'.
Do my cautions and precautions to remain sober constitute 'performance based Christianity'?

What, exactly is performance based Christianity and how does one follow a prohibition of Scripture without practicing such?

Performance based Christianity is living your Christianity based on performance and not on faith in Christ.

For example, I go soul winning to be right with God would be performance based and the more I win the more spiritual I am, more performance. But if you are a witness for Christ and you are witnessing out of love then you are not performing anything to be right with God but doing so by faith. To splain' it another way Lucy I don't get baptized to be saved (performance or works) I get baptized because I'm saved (faith).

So performance based is a works based sanctification and not a faith based sanctification.

Many times people will levy the accusation that folks who speak against performance based Christianity are against works. They are not. They know that they are created IN CHRIST to do good works. I will call my Sunday school students not because I want to be right with God or to please those in leadership and do our program but because I love and care for my students.

My wife and I didn't become the house parents at the Central Florida Children's Home to earn God's blessing and His favor. We simply believed it was His will for us to take that role on and willingly did so by faith and love to Him and the children.

Just my .02 which is probably only worth a penny.

 

[praise_yeshua]

When a believer is graded on anything other than spiritual fruit. Not solely an Xer issue. See also; mega church, media airtime, book sales, speaking fees, internet hits.

We should give up "grading" believers all together......

 

[subllibrm]

I largely agree with the responses on this thread. Having said that, I still have trouble with those who use the phrase 'performance based Christianity' as a negative phrase. This is b/c in my experience it seems to be used as a justification for a lack of performance. IOW, I don't do much anymore to serve the Lord and I justify it by saying that back in the day I was pushed very hard to do so and that is just 'performance based Christianity.' In essence, then, I am saying that my Christianity has moved beyond performance to a place where I am mature even though I do little/nothing to serve God.

...so, if you want to say that performance based Christianity is wrong b/c it teaches people to rely upon the flesh or to measure their spirituality by numbers then I agree; it is wrong. But if you want to say performance based Christianity is wrong b/c someone is pushing you to actively serve God then I disagree; you are wrong not the one pushing you to serve God.

Not sure that makes sense but I know what I mean in my own mind. As I usually do... 

Tom, I am with you brother.

I do want to ask you an honest question related to the above. Is it possible that the individual isn't being pushed because they are doing nothing but because the pusher wants them to do something else (IOW disagrees with what is being done)? Often what is done outside of the church's oversight is discounted or even discouraged. Trust me, I know.

 

[subllibrm]

<snip> We simply believed it was His will for us to take that role on and willingly did so by faith and love to Him and the children.

^this^

Woe to the church that would discourage such ministry because it may occasionally take you away from a church function.

 

[Ransom]

What, exactly is performance based Christianity and how does one follow a prohibition of Scripture without practicing such?

"Performance-based Christianity" is where one's spirituality is measured by the things he does: yes, what someone wears or drinks, but also whether they participate in church-organized "soul-winning" or other church-based ministries, shows up at the church whenever the doors are open, sends their kids to the right college, is "called" to preach or missions or some other "full-time Christian service," and so forth.

It isn't a fundy-specific pathology, either. You hear a lot of moralistic stuff from megachurch pulpits as well, and I suspect that Platt's Radical and similar books are responsible for a fair bit in broader evangelical circles.

 

[Fresh Air]

Tom, I am with you brother.

I do want to ask you an honest question related to the above. Is it possible that the individual isn't being pushed because they are doing nothing but because the pusher wants them to do something else (IOW disagrees with what is being done)? Often what is done outside of the church's oversight is discounted or even discouraged. Trust me, I know.

Yes. In my experience (the IFB world) some men are independent Baptists not because they reject ecclesiastical oversight for scriptural reasons but because they do not want anyone telling them what to do. Such men, who are basically rebels at heart, curiously enough often insist on zero rebellion from their own people. And rebellion in their minds is anybody who does/sees things differently.

We have a dear lady in our church. She is an immigrant from Haiti who graduated from an IFB Bible college out East and then worked as a Christian school teacher. By the time she got to me in Chicago she was financially and emotionally beaten up. I still don't know her entire story. At any rate, she decided she wanted to volunteer conducting a Bible study at the Pacific Garden Mission but it turned out she was afraid I would tell her she couldn't. Well it is entirely true that I have a number of theological problems with PGM's approach I would never dream of telling one of my members how they could/could not serve the Lord away from our assembly. Never. When I expressed that to her she was obviously greatly relieved.

She shouldn't have had to endure whatever egotistical dictator of a pastor she has in her past. It breaks my heart and it almost broke her spirit.

So, yes, I'm with you on this entirely.

 

[subllibrm]

Tom, I am with you brother.

I do want to ask you an honest question related to the above. Is it possible that the individual isn't being pushed because they are doing nothing but because the pusher wants them to do something else (IOW disagrees with what is being done)? Often what is done outside of the church's oversight is discounted or even discouraged. Trust me, I know.

Yes. In my experience (the IFB world) some men are independent Baptists not because they reject ecclesiastical oversight for scriptural reasons but because they do not want anyone telling them what to do. Such men, who are basically rebels at heart, curiously enough often insist on zero rebellion from their own people. And rebellion in their minds is anybody who does/sees things differently.

We have a dear lady in our church. She is an immigrant from Haiti who graduated from an IFB Bible college out East and then worked as a Christian school teacher. By the time she got to me in Chicago she was financially and emotionally beaten up. I still don't know her entire story. At any rate, she decided she wanted to volunteer conducting a Bible study at the Pacific Garden Mission but it turned out she was afraid I would tell her she couldn't. Well it is entirely true that I have a number of theological problems with PGM's approach I would never dream of telling one of my members how they could/could not serve the Lord away from our assembly. Never. When I expressed that to her she was obviously greatly relieved.

She shouldn't have had to endure whatever egotistical dictator of a pastor she has in her past. It breaks my heart and it almost broke her spirit.

So, yes, I'm with you on this entirely.

Thank you for the reply.

Sad to say, there are "pastors" out there who believe it is their responsibility to break the spirit of their flock. 

 

[T-Bone]

I appreciate the answers so far and in agreement with most I have read.  I would like to add another dimension of "Performance based Christianity", and it has to do with the love of God.  I have heard it inferred and even outright stated by some preachers that if you don't act or look a certain way, God doesn't love you as much as He would if you acted and looked differently (differently usually set by the speaker).  God's love is perfect and does not change based on our performance.

 

[prophet]

P.B.C. :  the laborers who get mad when the other laborers, who have done less, still get a day's pay.

 

[Fresh Air]

I appreciate the answers so far and in agreement with most I have read.  I would like to add another dimension of "Performance based Christianity", and it has to do with the love of God.  I have heard it inferred and even outright stated by some preachers that if you don't act or look a certain way, God doesn't love you as much as He would if you acted and looked differently (differently usually set by the speaker).  God's love is perfect and does not change based on our performance.

God's love is not limited in any way based upon our performance - but His blessing certainly is. And to preach such is not to abuse either the Scriptures or God's people.

 

[T-Bone]

I appreciate the answers so far and in agreement with most I have read.  I would like to add another dimension of "Performance based Christianity", and it has to do with the love of God.  I have heard it inferred and even outright stated by some preachers that if you don't act or look a certain way, God doesn't love you as much as He would if you acted and looked differently (differently usually set by the speaker).  God's love is perfect and does not change based on our performance.

God's love is not limited in any way based upon our performance - but His blessing certainly is. And to preach such is not to abuse either the Scriptures or God's people.

I have no problem with your statement...but would add not merely performance, but performance or works with a right heart based in faith.

 

[Fresh Air]

I have no problem with your statement...but would add not merely performance, but performance or works with a right heart based in faith.

Absolutely agreed.

 

[Billy]

I was told by a bus pastor that if I didn't spend 4 hours every Saturday knocking on doors that I wasn't right with God.

^^^^^^^me thinks this fits the bill^^^^^^^^