Performance based 'Christianity'.

[Bruh]

If the lady is wearing a dress to be prospered (blessed) by God then it would be a yes to PBC.

This is exactly where PBC (to use your convenient abbreviation) as a pejorative loses me... By definition, we are supposed to be obedient so God will bless us. That isn't a bad thing.

I thought we were suppose to be obedient because we love Him (John 14:15). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).

Since He has given me Jesus Christ (not because of my obedience, but because of His grace) will He not freely give us all things (Romans 8:32)?

Nothing to do with me, all to do with Him!

Yes.

Yep.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

What TB said:

That is r2's modus operandi here...IMO!

Plus the fact that we are told that "whom the Lord loves He chastens/disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives” seems to infer...flat out say...that God does look for obedience in His children.

What r2 said TB said:

But having said that, how I live has direct bearing on how God treats me, and if I want that blessing in my life I am supposed to perform (in the vernacular of this thread). - TB

^^^ Prosperity crap.

Thus illustrating my point! 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

What TB said:

That is r2's modus operandi here...IMO!

Plus the fact that we are told that "whom the Lord loves He chastens/disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives” seems to infer...flat out say...that God does look for obedience in His children.

What r2 said TB said:

But having said that, how I live has direct bearing on how God treats me, and if I want that blessing in my life I am supposed to perform (in the vernacular of this thread). - TB

^^^ Prosperity crap.

Thus illustrating my point! 

But that is (what's in bold) a form of prosperity crap.  "I am supposed to perform in order to get blessing in my life." 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The Tomato:
the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Exactly!
Neither Tom Brennan or I have said (or believes) that one works for God's approval...you work, as Matthew Ward said, out of love for Him who gave Himself for us...he posted that ignoring Tom's explanation, but *shrug*.

I honestly don't think we have much disagreement here.
We are saved by grace...not of works at all.
We live by faith...works have no bearing on our standing or position in Christ.

But, 'if anyone's work endures'...based on motivation and attitude...he shall receive a reward.
Chastening...discipline... comes from a Father who corrects and instructs His children...because they are His children!

I no not believe that I or anyone else can earn 'brownie points' with God by 'soulwinning', teaching, preaching or doing anything else!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

What TB said:

That is r2's modus operandi here...IMO!

Plus the fact that we are told that "whom the Lord loves He chastens/disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives” seems to infer...flat out say...that God does look for obedience in His children.

What r2 said TB said:

But having said that, how I live has direct bearing on how God treats me, and if I want that blessing in my life I am supposed to perform (in the vernacular of this thread). - TB

^^^ Prosperity crap.

Thus illustrating my point! 

But that is (what's in bold) a form of prosperity crap.  "I am supposed to perform in order to get blessing in my life."

It is...but I didn't say...nor do I believe that!

And, I would say that there is a difference in 'working' and obeying a clear principle of scripture...and I don't think obeying what you believe to be a clear Biblical principle, to please him whom you love, is PBC.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

It is...but I didn't say...nor do I believe that!

And, I would say that there is a difference in 'working' and obeying a clear principle of scripture...and I don't think obeying what you believe to be a clear Biblical principle, to please him whom you love, is PBC.

My brain is still in a fog today, so I can't unravel the thread and who said what, so I apologize. 

Obeying is a clear principle of scripture.  My point is that it isn't a quid pro quo for blessings with God. 

I don't know what PBC is.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

It is...but I didn't say...nor do I believe that!

And, I would say that there is a difference in 'working' and obeying a clear principle of scripture...and I don't think obeying what you believe to be a clear Biblical principle, to please him whom you love, is PBC.

My brain is still in a fog today, so I can't unravel the thread and who said what, so I apologize. 

Obeying is a clear principle of scripture.  My point is that it isn't a quid pro quo for blessings with God. 

I don't know what PBC is.

I can totally and absolutely agree with that.

And, there are too many TB's here....Tom's quote was explained by him in a later post.
PBC=Performance Based Christianity. 

 

[Bruh]

I Timothy 6:5

supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Neither Tom Brennan or I have said (or believes) that one works for God's approval...you work, as Matthew Ward said, out of love for Him who gave Himself for us...he posted that ignoring Tom's explanation, but *shrug*

Actually I was responding to thiS post...

This is exactly where PBC (to use your convenient abbreviation) as a pejorative loses me... By definition, we are supposed to be obedient so God will bless us. That isn't a bad thing.

 

[Walt]

What, exactly is performance based Christianity and how does one follow a prohibition of Scripture without practicing such?

"Performance-based Christianity" is where one's spirituality is measured by the things he does: yes, what someone wears or drinks, but also whether they participate in church-organized "soul-winning" or other church-based ministries, shows up at the church whenever the doors are open, sends their kids to the right college, is "called" to preach or missions or some other "full-time Christian service," and so forth.

This is the definition I've always thought of for "performance-based Christianity".

In a former church (following the Hyles model), the push was to make everyone go out "soul-winning", and that pretty much was the definition of "spiritual" along with the other outside things that men can see -- how they dressed.  Men in coat & tie, women in dresses & both going soul-winning, they were spiritual, even if they were very carnal. We had some very worldly people among that crowd and some "major" sins among that crowd.  Such a standard merely teaches conformity.  When the Holy Spirit transforms a person, there will not be a need to try to force them or trick them into good works.  For example, we know that we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves together; when the Holy Spirit transforms a life about this truth, it won't take special giveaways or special days to get people to come -- they will come because of the transformation.

 

[Walt]

I appreciate the answers so far and in agreement with most I have read.  I would like to add another dimension of "Performance based Christianity", and it has to do with the love of God.  I have heard it inferred and even outright stated by some preachers that if you don't act or look a certain way, God doesn't love you as much as He would if you acted and looked differently (differently usually set by the speaker).  God's love is perfect and does not change based on our performance.

Exactly!  I've heard people say "If you're not X-ing, don't expect God to answer your prayers" (fill in X for yourself).  But that is so wrong. We bring our prayers, not in our name, nor in our works (which are filthy rags), but in the name of Jesus, who has given us His righteousness.

Same thing with God's love.  He loves us - more than we can imagine.  We are special to Him; ALL our sin is forgiven because of Calvary... such mis-guided teaching implies that God only forgave part of our sins when we were saved.

There is the matter of fellowship with God as we walk through the world and commit sin -- some of the dirt sticks to us, and we need to confess the sin to restore our fellowship with God.

 

[Walt]

No. We are supposed to be obedient to God because it's the right thing to do. Blessing has nothing to do with it.

Ok. I worded what I said pooly b/c I completely agree that we are supposed to obey God b/c He told us to not in order to get something from Him. But having said that, how I live has direct bearing on how God treats me, and if I want that blessing in my life I am supposed to perform (in the vernacular of this thread). Entirely too often I've heard people assert that all of God's blessings are unconditional. Yes, some of them are. But when I take the position that all of them are then practically it no longer matters how I live - God will either pour out His favor on me or He won't and it is entirely willy-nilly.

That's wrong, and the attitude that flows from it (it doesn't matter how I live/perform so to speak) is wrong also. It does matter how I live. God blesses right performance done in faith with a right heart.

Of course, God has very, very often blessed me when I utterly didn't deserve it!

 

[Walt]

What TB said:

That is r2's modus operandi here...IMO!

Plus the fact that we are told that "whom the Lord loves He chastens/disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives” seems to infer...flat out say...that God does look for obedience in His children.

What r2 said TB said:

But having said that, how I live has direct bearing on how God treats me, and if I want that blessing in my life I am supposed to perform (in the vernacular of this thread). - TB

^^^ Prosperity crap.

Thus illustrating my point! 

But that is (what's in bold) a form of prosperity crap.  "I am supposed to perform in order to get blessing in my life."

Not quite what TB and others have said.  Clearly, some promises of God are conditional... to take an easy one, "Give, and it shall be given unto you...".  God may choose to give to us if we don't give, but clearly, those who give have a right to claim this blessing that those who don't give cannot claim.

I should always give because I love God, not to get more -- to do  such makes God a means to an end (prosperity, in this example) and not an end unto Himself, as He should be.

Surely you believe that God will treat His disobedient children differently than He treats the obedient children, right?

 

[Bruh]

I believe God's blessings are summed up more in that He gives peace while on earth, I believe it is dangerous to equate God's blessings with things.

Another of God's blessings I believe are when we see our children serving the Lord out of love for Him.  And they will also see His blessings in life with peace on earth. 

Peace meaning on the inside and also in marriage and home life.   

Anybody can "GET" things but not everybody will know the true blessings of God which IMO, is long lasting peace. 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Surely you believe that God will treat His disobedient children differently than He treats the obedient children, right?

No, not really, not if you mean God blesses his obedient children but doesn't bless disobedient children. 

 

[rsc2a]

Surely you believe that God will treat His disobedient children differently than He treats the obedient children, right?

No, not really, not if you mean God blesses his obedient children but doesn't bless disobedient children.

Something about rain and the just and unjust?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Surely you believe that God will treat His disobedient children differently than He treats the obedient children, right?

No, not really, not if you mean God blesses his obedient children but doesn't bless disobedient children.

The teaching of the "tithe" is the primary driving of such beliefs. I honesty believe the vast majority of those that believe in the "tithe" really believe that God would curse them if they stopped. Such couldn't be further from the truth. God blesses us because of who were are to Him. Some of the greatest "blessing" His children experience is the patience and long suffering of their Father.

 

[subllibrm]

Everything we have is a blessing given to us by God.

There are basically three areas of blessing; time, talent and treasure. As we seek to worship, honor and thank Him for all He has given we will naturally give some of each back to Him. This "giving" will be an expression of the heart. No one besides God and the giver knows if the gift is a truly a heart gift. To preach/teach that one must give/do x-amount to please God is to replace offerings of love and adoration with obligations motivated by fear.

What He desires from us is our heart, not our stuff.

 

[T-Bone]

Surely you believe that God will treat His disobedient children differently than He treats the obedient children, right?

No, not really, not if you mean God blesses his obedient children but doesn't bless disobedient children.

But if he means that God will discipline His disobedient children, he is correct, as Hebrews 12 makes very clear.

 

[T-Bone]

I appreciate the answers so far and in agreement with most I have read.  I would like to add another dimension of "Performance based Christianity", and it has to do with the love of God.  I have heard it inferred and even outright stated by some preachers that if you don't act or look a certain way, God doesn't love you as much as He would if you acted and looked differently (differently usually set by the speaker).  God's love is perfect and does not change based on our performance.

Exactly!  I've heard people say "If you're not X-ing, don't expect God to answer your prayers" (fill in X for yourself).  But that is so wrong. We bring our prayers, not in our name, nor in our works (which are filthy rags), but in the name of Jesus, who has given us His righteousness.

Same thing with God's love.  He loves us - more than we can imagine.  We are special to Him; ALL our sin is forgiven because of Calvary... such mis-guided teaching implies that God only forgave part of our sins when we were saved.

There is the matter of fellowship with God as we walk through the world and commit sin -- some of the dirt sticks to us, and we need to confess the sin to restore our fellowship with God.

Yup and Amen!