Thank you, Jim

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Vince Massi

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Although we are IFBs, my wife and I faithfully attend a soul-winning Assemblies of God church here in Mexico. Yesterday, the Lord blessed us with 25 kids in the Neighborhood Bible Study.

Violeta is a public school teacher who also teaches in our children's services. As a result, she is heading for Peru to work in an AOG mission in the jungle as a children's teacher.

She wouldn't be doing it if it weren't for our children's church services. We wouldn't have children's church services if it weren't for the influence of Jim Vineyard.

So Jim's good influence is now spreading to a Peruvian jungle.

Sorry, Folks, but that's the truth.
 
Vince Massi said:
Although we are IFBs, my wife and I faithfully attend a soul-winning Assemblies of God church here in Mexico. Yesterday, the Lord blessed us with 25 kids in the Neighborhood Bible Study.

Violeta is a public school teacher who also teaches in our children's services. As a result, she is heading for Peru to work in an AOG mission in the jungle as a children's teacher.

She wouldn't be doing it if it weren't for our children's church services. We wouldn't have children's church services if it weren't for the influence of Jim Vineyard.

So Jim's good influence is now spreading to a Peruvian jungle.

Sorry, Folks, but that's the truth.
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You go ahead and keep praising your god Jim Vineyard and his good influence/work.

I will praise Jesus for all his awesome works throughout the ages starting with Calvary.
 
"You go ahead and keep praising your god Jim Vineyard and his good influence/work.

I will praise Jesus for all his awesome works throughout the ages starting with Calvary."


No you won't.  You'll make false accusations.
 
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Vince Massi said:
"You go ahead and keep praising your god Jim Vineyard and his good influence/work.

I will praise Jesus for all his awesome works throughout the ages starting with Calvary."


No you won't.  You'll make false accusations.
Click to expand...

I'll bite.  Name the false accusations I will make.
 
Just me said:
Vince Massi said:
Although we are IFBs, my wife and I faithfully attend a soul-winning Assemblies of God church here in Mexico. Yesterday, the Lord blessed us with 25 kids in the Neighborhood Bible Study.

Violeta is a public school teacher who also teaches in our children's services. As a result, she is heading for Peru to work in an AOG mission in the jungle as a children's teacher.

She wouldn't be doing it if it weren't for our children's church services. We wouldn't have children's church services if it weren't for the influence of Jim Vineyard.

So Jim's good influence is now spreading to a Peruvian jungle.

Sorry, Folks, but that's the truth.
Click to expand...

You go ahead and keep praising your god Jim Vineyard and his good influence/work.

I will praise Jesus for all his awesome works throughout the ages starting with Calvary.
Click to expand...

This is a bit unfair.  Even the worst leaders have had some good influence.

I've heard preachers preach good messages, and later found out that they had committed adultery.  That still does not take away from the fact that God used the message to do a work in my heart.
 
I'll give you this there really is alot to be learned.

Some things could actually be helpful in organizing, planning, running events for the church etc as long as you keep God as your main goal and focus.
Also learned a lot of what not to do, what to watch out for (ie corrupt leaders), and how to trust but verify per the Bible.
 
It is a post like Vince Massi's post praising Jim that makes victims think what's the point in speaking out about their abuse when the predators continue to be praised.

I don't see Jesus praising offenders of His little ones in Matthew 18. In fact He says, better to tie a stone to them to be sure they sink when you toss them. Speaking on behalf of a family who has been directly affected FOREVER as a result of Jim's predatory behavior, I am disgusted with Vince Massi's post.

As if Jim teaching how to use gimmicks to draw kids in somehow erases years of preying from the pulpit, his office and elsewhere. In my opinion, once it is known that a person is a predator,  there should be no bragging on their past achievements.

I mean, hello, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Jim has used the "ministry" as an avenue to access new and unsuspecting victims. This is truth and not false accusations. 

Even Hollywood got it right recently when they yanked all of the 7th Heaven reruns and dropped Stephen Collins' program upon news of his molestations confession. I agree with JustMe that God should be getting the glory and not Jim. When I see someone praise a known predator,  makes me think birds of a feather.

Sorry Vince but that's the truth.
 
Just me said:
Vince Massi said:
"You go ahead and keep praising your god Jim Vineyard and his good influence/work.

I will praise Jesus for all his awesome works throughout the ages starting with Calvary."


No you won't.  You'll make false accusations.
Click to expand...

I'll bite.  Name the false accusations I will make.
Click to expand...

Vince must be thinking real hard on this challenge.
 
"It is a post like Vince Massi's post praising Jim that makes victims think what's the point in speaking out about their abuse when the predators continue to be praised."

I AM one of Jim Vineyard's victims. Because I took a strong stand against Vineyard's gangsters when I was at HAC, they falsified my grades, gave awards I earned to other students, attached a permanent slander to my transcript, and put me on seven-day-per week, 24 hour per day white glove inspection.

One of my room mates was one of Jim's bus evangelists, and he was caught twice dirtying our dorm after I cleaned it, and they let him off both times. I sat in chapel and laughed with everyone else when Jim slandered me from the pulpit during a chapel message.

And while HAC wallows in one scandal after another, God has blessed me with a good wife, no scandals, a happy retirement in Mexico, and effective volunteer ministries. I got reconciled to Jim, and I have no problem using the good that God put into him.
 
Vince Massi said:
"It is a post like Vince Massi's post praising Jim that makes victims think what's the point in speaking out about their abuse when the predators continue to be praised."

I AM one of Jim Vineyard's victims. Because I took a strong stand against Vineyard's gangsters when I was at HAC, they falsified my grades, gave awards I earned to other students, attached a permanent slander to my transcript, and put me on seven-day-per week, 24 hour per day white glove inspection.

One of my room mates was one of Jim's bus evangelists, and he was caught twice dirtying our dorm after I cleaned it, and they let him off both times. I sat in chapel and laughed with everyone else when Jim slandered me from the pulpit during a chapel message.

And while HAC wallows in one scandal after another, God has blessed me with a good wife, no scandals, a happy retirement in Mexico, and effective volunteer ministries. I got reconciled to Jim, and I have no problem using the good that God put into him.
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You must live a very sheltered life if you think getting bad grades, not getting awards you think you should have received, slanderous comments on your transcript, and someone messing up your room is considered abuse.

Have you had to seek professional help for any of these abuses, ever thought about taking your own life because you got a bad transcript? Has your life been ruined by the abuse?

Like was said before people that praise predators are birds of the feather. I would be willing to bet your retirement is being funded by some ones faith promise missions giving, thinking you are doing something for God in Mexico with your good wife while you are building a children's church to have more selection for your prey.

That is what a Vineyard would do and Vineyard praisers.



 
Truthbearer, my retirement is funded 100% by my savings from work. I have never received any missionary support.

Jim Vineyard did everything he could to destroy me and my ministry, and he failed. Later, I got reconciled to him and left on good terms, with his recommendation. I might add that most of his staff did not leave him on good terms, and it was his fault that they did not.

Many of the posters on this forum are victims of abuse from HAC or similar institutions. You have to realize that you cannot be like Jesus if you are not wronged and then forgive the wrong-doer. If it had not been Jim, it would have been someone else, or I would not have grown in the areas God wanted me to grow in.

Being falsely accused is part of the successful Christian life. Most of the missionaries who come down here go home empty-handed after two years. But there are missionaries down here who are succeeding under a near-constant wave of criticism--that's the cost of success. Over the years, God has shown me that the wrongs done against me by Jim were a necessary part of His training, and that makes it easier to forgive him.



 
TruthBearer said:
As if Jim teaching how to use gimmicks to draw kids in somehow erases years of preying from the pulpit, his office and elsewhere. In my opinion, once it is known that a person is a predator,  there should be no bragging on their past achievements.

I mean, hello, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Jim has used the "ministry" as an avenue to access new and unsuspecting victims. This is truth and not false accusations. 
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Couple of questions: From what I've read and heard, Jim Vineyard didn't molest anyone - he was let go for being too frank in his counseling sessions.  Are you accusing him of worse?

You wrote: ...once it is known that a person is a predator, there should be no bragging on [his] pas achievements.

We may be letting modern cultural attitudes shape our viewpoint instead of Scripture.  Society tends to view molesting of children as the very worst of the worst of any crime imaginable.  (Having grown up in this society, I think so, too.)

But when I come to the Scripture, I  find that God uses men and women who did some pretty vile things. David is called by God a man after God's own heart, and David's actions were vile.

As I ponder this, David always repented when God showed him the error of his ways.

I don't think that one can say that of people like Jim Vineyard and Jack Hyles - they continue to deny that they have done anything wrong, and attempt to say that they are the victims of gossip and slander spread by disgruntled people.

I believe that when one quotes a man, that implies some approval of him, unless qualification is made.  I think if one is going to quote people like Hyles and Vineyard, some kind of qualification should also be given.

One thing we learn from the pages of Scripture is that God can use vile and wicked man to work His will and to bring praise to Himself, and we should be careful to glorify Him.
 
Vince Massi said:
Jim Vineyard did everything he could to destroy me and my ministry, and he failed. Later, I got reconciled to him and left on good terms, with his recommendation.
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Anyone who is is familiar with Jim Vineyard knows that to reconcile with him one must come crawling back to him and beg his forgiveness even if it was he (and it always is) who had done the wrong. Vineyards do not apologize - that is beneath them. To apologize is to admit that they made a mistake.

Anyone on here every hear a Vineyard admit that he's made a mistake of any consequence? That it was actually all his fault? 
 
Vince Massi said:
Truthbearer, my retirement is funded 100% by my savings from work. I have never received any missionary support.

Jim Vineyard did everything he could to destroy me and my ministry, and he failed. Later, I got reconciled to him and left on good terms, with his recommendation. I might add that most of his staff did not leave him on good terms, and it was his fault that they did not.

Many of the posters on this forum are victims of abuse from HAC or similar institutions. You have to realize that you cannot be like Jesus if you are not wronged and then forgive the wrong-doer. If it had not been Jim, it would have been someone else, or I would not have grown in the areas God wanted me to grow in.

Being falsely accused is part of the successful Christian life. Most of the missionaries who come down here go home empty-handed after two years. But there are missionaries down here who are succeeding under a near-constant wave of criticism--that's the cost of success. Over the years, God has shown me that the wrongs done against me by Jim were a necessary part of His training, and that makes it easier to forgive him.
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I understand that God can use wicked and vile people to mold us according to his will.

I understand the concept of forgiveness and the importance of it.

I also understand that Jesus told people to go and sin no more. Those are the ones that he forgave, the people that continued in their sins were rebuked not forgiven.

In your original post you gave Jim Vineyard the honor and glory for God's word being spread no mention of God doing a good work all the credit was given to Jimbo.

You also mentioned you were attending an Assembly of God church, a church that believes the evidence of salvation is the ability to speak in tongues. What fellowship does unrighteousness have with righteousness.

I can see why you were praising a predator and not God something got lost in the translation for you when speaking in tongues.

As Citadel of Truth mentioned "Anyone who is familiar with Jim Vineyard knows that to reconcile with him one must come crawling back to him and beg for his forgiveness..." Reconcilliation is always on Jimbo's terms and usually involves him humilitating his offender, most of the time in a message as an example for the public.

Anyone that knows the real Jimbo Vineyard would not praise him for anything.

When I see a Vineyard truely repent of their ways I will forgive them.
 
Well, Just Me, I'm afraid that you outsmarted me. When I stated that you would not glorify Christ, but would instead make false accusatins, I figured that one of two things would happen:

If you immediately started making false accusations, then you probably don't know that your accusations are false.

If you held off for a while, then I would figure that you did realize that your accusations are false.

But I forgot how easy it is to post your false accusations under another name.
 
Vince Massi said:
Well, Just Me, I'm afraid that you outsmarted me. When I stated that you would not glorify Christ, but would instead make false accusatins, I figured that one of two things would happen:

If you immediately started making false accusations, then you probably don't know that your accusations are false.

If you held off for a while, then I would figure that you did realize that your accusations are false.

But I forgot how easy it is to post your false accusations under another name.
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You definitely are the judgemental type Mr Massi, but considering how you seem to worship at Vineyards feet I am not surprised.

Since you cowarded down from my first challange I also challenge you further to go back and show me false accusations I have made.  But since you did not take my first challenge I certainally doubt you will this one either because you cannot do either of them.
 
"You definitely are the judgemental type Mr Massi,"

That's one.

"... considering how you seem to worship at Vineyards feet..."

That's two.

"...you cowarded down from my first challange..."

That's three.
 
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