What would a Calvinist do if he found out "freewill" exists?

[.tim]

Can my "free will" ever overrule the sovereignty of God, or lets say it another way...can my "free will" ever trump God's will?


Gonna go make some popcorn while you free willy heretics figure this out.    8)

Nope.

Do you have a point to your question?

Besides trying to enlighten your understanding of the Sovereignty of God...nope kinda useless.

There's been a lot of evil in the world attributed to the "Sovereignty of God". You do your Master disservice.

He ordained the greatest evil committed by man.

The murder of his own people, the Jews.

 

[christundivided]

Can my "free will" ever overrule the sovereignty of God, or lets say it another way...can my "free will" ever trump God's will?


Gonna go make some popcorn while you free willy heretics figure this out.    8)

Nope.

Do you have a point to your question?

Besides trying to enlighten your understanding of the Sovereignty of God...nope kinda useless.

There's been a lot of evil in the world attributed to the "Sovereignty of God". You do your Master disservice.

He ordained the greatest evil committed by man.

You're being silly. No greater love was shown. No greater love.

You then turn around and present a Gospel that has no hope for some and no fear for others.

 

[Billy]

Can my "free will" ever overrule the sovereignty of God, or lets say it another way...can my "free will" ever trump God's will?


Gonna go make some popcorn while you free willy heretics figure this out.    8)

Nope.

Do you have a point to your question?

Besides trying to enlighten your understanding of the Sovereignty of God...nope kinda useless.

There's been a lot of evil in the world attributed to the "Sovereignty of God". You do your Master disservice.

He ordained the greatest evil committed by man.

You're being silly. No greater love was shown. No greater love.

You then turn around and present a Gospel that has no hope for some and no fear for others.

Still the greatest evil ever done by man.

BTW: No person will be in hell that wanted to come to Christ but was refused, and no person in heaven that didn't repent and follow Christ.
God knows the wheat from the tares.

 

[.tim]

Can my "free will" ever overrule the sovereignty of God, or lets say it another way...can my "free will" ever trump God's will?


Gonna go make some popcorn while you free willy heretics figure this out.    8)

Nope.

Do you have a point to your question?

Besides trying to enlighten your understanding of the Sovereignty of God...nope kinda useless.

There's been a lot of evil in the world attributed to the "Sovereignty of God". You do your Master disservice.

He ordained the greatest evil committed by man.

You're being silly. No greater love was shown. No greater love.

You then turn around and present a Gospel that has no hope for some and no fear for others.

Still the greatest evil ever done by man.

BTW: No person will be in hell that wanted to come to Christ but was refused, and no person in heaven that didn't repent and follow Christ.
God knows the wheat from the tares.

But the general idea that is passed around by the reformed crowd is that God never wanted them in the first place.

 

[christundivided]

Can my "free will" ever overrule the sovereignty of God, or lets say it another way...can my "free will" ever trump God's will?


Gonna go make some popcorn while you free willy heretics figure this out.    8)

Nope.

Do you have a point to your question?

Besides trying to enlighten your understanding of the Sovereignty of God...nope kinda useless.

There's been a lot of evil in the world attributed to the "Sovereignty of God". You do your Master disservice.

He ordained the greatest evil committed by man.

You're being silly. No greater love was shown. No greater love.

You then turn around and present a Gospel that has no hope for some and no fear for others.

Still the greatest evil ever done by man.

BTW: No person will be in hell that wanted to come to Christ but was refused, and no person in heaven that didn't repent and follow Christ.
God knows the wheat from the tares.

Do you know how silly that is?

Somehow you think God's knowledge is the same thing as God's divine action. God knows the future because HE CREATES THAT FUTURE. Its called Omnipotence.

 

[Ransom]

He ordained the greatest evil committed by man.

The murder of his own people, the Jews.

No, the murder of his own Son, the Christ.

"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know - this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men." (Acts 2:22-23)

When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, "Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit,

"'Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed' -

for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place." (Acts 4:23-28)

 

[christundivided]

He ordained the greatest evil committed by man.

The murder of his own people, the Jews.

No, the murder of his own Son, the Christ.

"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know - this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men." (Acts 2:22-23)

When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, "Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit,

"'Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed' -

for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place." (Acts 4:23-28)

Joh 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Why don't you produce one verse where God called Calvary "evil". God doesn't bring forth "evil fruit".

 

[Mathew Ward]

Can my "free will" ever overrule the sovereignty of God, or lets say it another way...can my "free will" ever trump God's will?


Gonna go make some popcorn while you free willy heretics figure this out.    8)

Is it God's will that you sin, as a Christian?

Did God ordain that Jesus be betrayed by the instrument of Judas's treachery?
Did God ordain that the perfect Son of God give His life in the greatest sinful act ever committed?

You asked b]can my "free will" ever trump God's will?[/b]

So I ask you is it God's will that you or I sin as a Christian?

 

[Mathew Ward]

He ordained the greatest evil committed by man.

The murder of his own people, the Jews.

No, the murder of his own Son, the Christ.

"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know - this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men." (Acts 2:22-23)

When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, "Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit,

"'Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed' -

for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place." (Acts 4:23-28)

I thought Christ said no man took his life but that he willingly gave it.

 

[Ransom]

I thought Christ said no man took his life but that he willingly gave it.

Is it your contention that Pontius Pilate, Herod, the Sanhedrin, and the Roman soldiers who nailed Jesus to the cross, all bear no moral responsibility for his death?

 

[Mathew Ward]

I thought Christ said no man took his life but that he willingly gave it.

Is it your contention that Pontius Pilate, Herod, the Sanhedrin, and the Roman soldiers who nailed Jesus to the cross, all bear no moral responsibility for his death?

You said they murdered Christ.

Christ said "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

I'll go with Christ.

As far as 'moral responsibility' I suppose those for whom Christ died would all share in that responsibility.

 

[Ransom]

You said they murdered Christ.

And what do you call it when an innocent man is put to death by lawless people? An honest disagreement?

 

[Mathew Ward]

You said they murdered Christ.

And what do you call it when an innocent man is put to death by lawless people? An honest disagreement?

Since it is Christ, it is called a sacrifice. One where he laid down his life for us.

 

[subllibrm]

But the general idea that is passed around by the reformed crowd is that God never wanted them in the first place.

Actually, no.

That is the "conclusion" you have come to in your "understanding" of their position. I have never heard that idea taught other than as a refutation of God's sovereignty in the matter of man's salvation. You tell yourself over and over that this is what is believed until you convince yourself that such teaching exists.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

God "wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." according 1 Timothy 2:4.

Well, there you go.  According to your interpretation of the verse, if even one person is not saved, then man's will triumphed over God's will. 

If God is not willing that anyone perish, and even one man perishes, then man's will trumped God's will.

Or to put it more simply, God is ineffective and incompetent.  He wants everyone to be saved, but is unable to make it so. 

 

[T-Bone]

Here's a quote...guess who from...?

"God withholds forgiveness from no one who needs and seeks it. If that applies to you today, confess your sins and be forgiven."


Calvinist or non?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

What would a Calvinist do if he found out "freewill" exists?

What else?  He'd decide of his own free will to believe in it. 

If it was predestined to be so, that is. 

8)

 

[Bruh]

Can my "free will" ever overrule the sovereignty of God, or lets say it another way...can my "free will" ever trump God's will?


Gonna go make some popcorn while you free willy heretics figure this out.    8)

I don't know about overruling him ... but ...

God "wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." according 1 Timothy 2:4. But, obviously, not everyone wants God.

In Genesis 6:6 God "was sorry he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain." It seems that if humans didn't sin, or be so evil, God wouldn't have flooded the earth.

What about prayer? "And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off?" Luke 18:7. We learn about the widow who kept bugging the judge. We pray and sometimes God hears our pray and helps us ... according to his will ... yes ... but if we didn't pray what would have happened?

Eve could have said no to the snake. Jesus came to earth to prove he could live life and say "no" to the evil one. Was not Jesus, God in Flesh, ever persuaded to walk right when he was thinking of walking left? He was human, is it a sin to change your mind?

I believe we all have a choice in life. All of us. We choose God, or we choose self. God wanted Eve to say no to that snake, but she said yes. She could have changed history.

So, you can trump God....

God has complete control over His creation...that includes you.  EVERYTHING that He created He controls.  Looking at our lives from our earthly view it can give us the belief that we through our devices we control our lives, but may I remind you the scriptures tell us that even our very steps are ordered by Him....so think about that next time you walk down the street.

If what you say is true, why doesn't God trump our error? And show us the truth.  Or are we lost therefore error on this doctrine?

 

[Bruh]

God "wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." according 1 Timothy 2:4.

Well, there you go.  According to your interpretation of the verse, if even one person is not saved, then man's will triumphed over God's will. 

If God is not willing that anyone perish, and even one man perishes, then man's will trumped God's will.

Or to put it more simply, God is ineffective and incompetent.  He wants everyone to be saved, but is unable to make it so.

Tomato, do you believe that God created some only to send to hell?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

God "wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." according 1 Timothy 2:4.

Well, there you go.  According to your interpretation of the verse, if even one person is not saved, then man's will triumphed over God's will. 

If God is not willing that anyone perish, and even one man perishes, then man's will trumped God's will.

Or to put it more simply, God is ineffective and incompetent.  He wants everyone to be saved, but is unable to make it so.

Tomato, do you believe that God created some only to send to hell?

That's what the Bible says.  Here you go. 

The Lord has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

And this next quote even includes the context that explains why.  I'll make that bold for you so you won't miss it. 

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory