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cpizzle said:"I see no liberty among Christians to alter their minds. To relinquish self control. To nullify the control of God in our lives."
Alcohol alters the mind and it is oftentimes allowed in scripture. Thus, altering the mind cannot be used as a reason to declare something a sin.
Drunkenness is forbidden. It is sin. It is one of the characteristics listed concerning who will not enter the Kingdom of God. So what reason can one give for drinking alcohol in our culture?
Here is the clear statement of drinking as a sin:
Romans 14:21
King James Version (KJV)
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
To preach "Its okay to drink" will likely cause someone, somewhere...to stumble. Those who say "I can take a mind altering substance that inhibits self control and control it" are, in my opinion, fooling themselves.
cpizzle said:As far as Disney, Chips, and Motorcycles go, the point was to show that they can be damaging, dangerous, and wasteful with no redeeming value to them. Disney is for fun. Chips are only eaten because we like the taste. Motorcycles can end your life quickly when a car could be safer. We do them because we like them despite the risks. We don't consider them sins though.
Not even comparable to drinking and drugging.
None of these things alter the mind.
cpizzle said:I think alcohol and drug use are more dangerous, more damaging, and more wasteful than Disney and Frito Lay, but the same standards still apply.
No, the same standards do not apply. One cannot be arrested for driving a motorcycle to Disneyland to eat potato chips.
There are no laws that govern anyone indulging in these activities.
There is no Biblical standard which warns against them.
cpizzle said:I don't get to choose where we draw the line. I think stoners are annoying and I can't stand the drug culture, but that is not my place to rewrite scripture.
You have drawn the line, somewhere well before the notion that drinking and drugging is something Christians should avoid.
It falls into acceptable behavior in your defense of it.
And no need to rewrite Scripture, simply acknowledge what is said:
Matthew 24:48-50
King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Luke 21:34
King James Version (KJV)
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Romans 13:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Galatians 5:20-22
King James Version (KJV)
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 5:11
King James Version (KJV)
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
And last but not least...
Ephesians 5:18
King James Version (KJV)
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
...which takes us back to the simple point I made concerning alcohol being contrary to our pursuits as Christians: Being filled with the Spirit is shown as contrasted to being...drunk.
Now just how drunk do you suppose a Christian has to be to quench the Spirit?
Who, in his right mind...would think one could be drinking alcohol without risk of quenching the Spirit?
If Scripture makes this contrast, don't you think we ought to as well? If drinking is contrary to being filled with the Spirit, and leadership is denied to those who indulge, isn't it a logical conclusion that those who do indulge...
...simply do not care if they are filled with the Spirit or not?
cpizzle said:Can we not simply influence people to make better decisions without using the Bible as a club by telling people it says what it doesn't say?
Influence people apart from what the Word of God teaches?
Sure, if one is worried about being politically correct. I guess not being politically correct could hinder social drinking...
God bless.