David Hyles being sued

Vince Massi

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"No arguments from me, the guy is a piece of work who nearly ran into my fist at 90mph at his Dad's funeral, and I would not have thought twice about it. "

Qwerty, could you explain what happened?
 

illinoisguy

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Since we are debating the question as to whether it is permissible or appropriate for Dave Hyles' victims to file a lawsuit after 40 years, I just want to make this observation. Victims of sexual or spiritual abuse, or financial ripoffs, or any other type of abuse, are going to find out that, in the typical authoritarian IFB church, there is no possible way for them to deal with it without being accused of "Not handling it right." If they complain or file a lawsuit immediately, they will be told that they "Didn't handle it right." If they wait 40 years, and then complain and file a lawsuit after spending years in unsuccessful efforts to settle the matter in a more amicable manner, they still be told that they "They didn't handle it right." No matter how they go about trying to right the wrong, they will be condemned, vilified, demonized, simonized and martinized for "not handling it right" because, of course, the only way to handle it right it to say nothing and cover up for the abusing Mannagod and his church.

When victims of abuse or molestation do get the courage to speak up, they can expect to be accused of plotting to destroy the ministry and the Mannagod, and to destroy fundamentalism. They will be told that they are just bitter, they need to just forgive and forget and get over it and move on, they will be told that they are going to hell. If they try to join another IFB church, they may be told that they must go back to the abusive church and "get things right with the Mannagod."

Of course, the Mannagod who committed the abuse has no need to get things right with anyone, or to answer to anyone, and he does not have to be concerned about hellfire - like Dave Hyles, who has been pronounced to be gloriously forgiven by God, and is worthy to receive standing ovations, to be back in the ministry and collect money from people, and to have books published with Bob Gray's endorsement. My guess is that very few people at First Baptist of Hammond or their network of Hyles-worshipping churches are agonizing over the question of whether Dave Hyles or his congregation "handled things right." God has forgiven Dave, but his victims will never be forgiven. That's how it works in all too many IFB churches, and perhaps that helps to explain why the movement is in decline - people don't want to waste their time huffing and puffing on the guilt-trip treadmill of a church where no matter what they do, they will be told that they "didn't handle it right."

Being an IFB preacher means never having to say you're sorry. But that doesn't apply to the laymen-serfs in the pews. When the Mannagod says "Serfs Up!" then they have to jump.
 

Sherryh

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Since we are debating the question as to whether it is permissible or appropriate for Dave Hyles' victims to file a lawsuit after 40 years, I just want to make this observation. Victims of sexual or spiritual abuse, or financial ripoffs, or any other type of abuse, are going to find out that, in the typical authoritarian IFB church, there is no possible way for them to deal with it without being accused of "Not handling it right." If they complain or file a lawsuit immediately, they will be told that they "Didn't handle it right." If they wait 40 years, and then complain and file a lawsuit after spending years in unsuccessful efforts to settle the matter in a more amicable manner, they still be told that they "They didn't handle it right." No matter how they go about trying to right the wrong, they will be condemned, vilified, demonized, simonized and martinized for "not handling it right" because, of course, the only way to handle it right it to say nothing and cover up for the abusing Mannagod and his church.

When victims of abuse or molestation do get the courage to speak up, they can expect to be accused of plotting to destroy the ministry and the Mannagod, and to destroy fundamentalism. They will be told that they are just bitter, they need to just forgive and forget and get over it and move on, they will be told that they are going to hell. If they try to join another IFB church, they may be told that they must go back to the abusive church and "get things right with the Mannagod."

Of course, the Mannagod who committed the abuse has no need to get things right with anyone, or to answer to anyone, and he does not have to be concerned about hellfire - like Dave Hyles, who has been pronounced to be gloriously forgiven by God, and is worthy to receive standing ovations, to be back in the ministry and collect money from people, and to have books published with Bob Gray's endorsement. My guess is that very few people at First Baptist of Hammond or their network of Hyles-worshipping churches are agonizing over the question of whether Dave Hyles or his congregation "handled things right." God has forgiven Dave, but his victims will never be forgiven. That's how it works in all too many IFB churches, and perhaps that helps to explain why the movement is in decline - people don't want to waste their time huffing and puffing on the guilt-trip treadmill of a church where no matter what they do, they will be told that they "didn't handle it right."

Being an IFB preacher means never having to say you're sorry. But that doesn't apply to the laymen-serfs in the pews. When the Mannagod says "Serfs Up!" then they have to jump.

God has forgiven dh .............really? I've always been surprised that someone hasn't knocked his head off.
 

illinoisguy

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Here is what Dave Hyles says about it, as cited on a web site from his supporter David Stewart:

"I have news for you that is not going to please you, but here goes. GOD LOVES ME and I AM SAVED AND FORGIVEN! I fell but, you see, when a Christian falls we do not fall away from grace, we fall into it, hence the name of this book. I am in His grace and one day I will stand before Him clothed in the righteousness of His Son and not the sin of my own. Why would you dare try and hurt the heart of God? Is it because there is unconfessed sin in your life? Are you so far from Him that you have lost the sweetness of His mercy and grace in your own life? That is sad.”

I make no judgments as to whether Dave Hyles is currently saved and forgiven by God, but I will venture to make this judgment: I don't think anybody can be regarded as having been saved at the time that they were living a life of persistent sexual sin. I guess my main concern is that it is so easy for IFB clergy to be forgiven, but it seems as if lowly church members who run afoul of the clergy for any reason whatsoever, and are thrown under the bus, can never be forgiven and restored. Also, I don't believe that pastors who have fallen into serious sins should be restored to the pastoral ministry. We are not saying that they are not saved or forgiven. We forgive them, but we don't think they are qualified to be in pastoral ministry.
 

Vince Massi

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Illinoisguy makes a valid point when he states " I don't think anybody can be regarded as having been saved at the time that they were living a life of persistent sexual sin. "

Any person involved in blatant, long-term major sin, who has not met any of the Biblical commands to get things right with his victims, has no business condemning people who do not believe he is saved.
 

Vince Massi

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To all the victims of Dave Hyles, Jim Vineyard, and Hyles-Anderson:

Merry Christmas from your friends!
 

qwerty

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Qwerty, could you explain what happened?

I was a bit tired of dealing with him at the hospital so I had my fill of him and his attitude. He got mouthy with an usher before the service and it got heated. He was near one of the glass doors so he was unceremoniously pushed out the door where he was getting uppity with me. When he gave his, who do you think you are pushing around speech, I told him yes, a visitor..... I was waiting for the fallout but nothing ever became of it.
 
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Starlifter

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I was a bit tired of dealing with him at the hospital so I had my fill of him and his attitude. He got mouthy with an usher before the service and it got heated. He was near one of the glass doors so he was unceremoniously pushed out the door where he was getting uppity with me. When he gave his, who do you think you are pushing around speech, I told him yes, a visitor..... I was waiting for the fallout but nothing ever became of it.
You pushed him literally through the glass door? :oops:
Dude, you da man!
 

Vince Massi

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Qwerty, I appreciate your input.

I don't understand what "the hospital" had to do with it, though.
 

qwerty

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Qwerty, I appreciate your input.

I don't understand what "the hospital" had to do with it, though.

When Dr. Hyles was in the hospital during his last days. Most of the family was there, especially when at the University of Chicago.
 
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