Does God learn?

[Walt]

Let me set this up differently and more poignantly...

If God's foreknowledge involves ascertaining information about man's decision... does that not mean that God is learning?

We live in time; for us, decisions we haven't made yet are still in the future.  Although it is hard to fathom God living outside of time, He does.  God knows what we decide to do through all time, and weaves the tapestry of our history and others around the decisions and requests we make.  Do we decide tomorrow to pray for a friend in need?. God hears and answers the prayer.  From our side, it seems that we have changed God's mind.  However, God saw us praying in ages past and determined His course of action based upon our prayers.  So did He answer our prayer? Yes.  Was it always going to be so?  Yes.

 

[prophet]

Let me set this up differently and more poignantly...

If God's foreknowledge involves ascertaining information about man's decision... does that not mean that God is learning?

We live in time; for us, decisions we haven't made yet are still in the future.  Although it is hard to fathom God living outside of time, He does.  God knows what we decide to do through all time, and weaves the tapestry of our history and others around the decisions and requests we make.  Do we decide tomorrow to pray for a friend in need?. God hears and answers the prayer.  From our side, it seems that we have changed God's mind.  However, God saw us praying in ages past and determined His course of action based upon our prayers.  So did He answer our prayer? Yes.  Was it always going to be so?  Yes.

This would be clear to anyone understanding the def. of "eternity".

 

[FSSL]

The aspect of time does not satisfy the question.

God's decrees, predestination and outworking of all things is at the heart of the answer.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The aspect of time does not satisfy the question.

God's decrees, predestination and outworking of all things is at the heart of the answer.

Christ is Eternal but Christ hasn't always been born of a women. "Today, I have begotten you"

Heb 1:5  For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"?

Do you believe that Christ will one day cease to be in union with humanity in the Incarnation?

Regardless of what you think of the Incarnation, it is VERY clear that it "behoved" Christ to be made like His brethren that HE might be a "faithful High Priest"

Heb 2:17  Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The Greek philosophical ideas of "change" really are in question here. Theologically, the "lack of change" referenced in Scripture relates to the character of God. It has nothing to do with every aspect of God. God can do as He pleases within His own character, and this has no affect on The IMMUTABILITY of God.

 

[FSSL]

How does any of this address the point?

 

[praise_yeshua]

How does any of this address the point?

What the average person sees as change.... isn't. Are you saying that "learning" doesn't imply change?

 

[Bo]

Let me set this up differently and more poignantly...

If God's foreknowledge involves ascertaining information about man's decision... does that not mean that God is learning?

I believe that God knows everything....even what man will decide.....I believe it can be VERY loosely related to us watching a movie we produced.....we know everything that is going to happen in it...

I dont believe God learns at all...He is the supreme knowledge

 

[FSSL]

Since you made the analogy about man being the producer of a movie, are you suggesting that God is the producer of all events?

You are being very inconsistent with your statements on the other thread.

 

[Bo]

Since you made the analogy about man being the producer of a movie, are you suggesting that God is the producer of all events?

You are being very inconsistent with your statements on the other thread.

I said very loosely.....

He created us.....He gave us free will.....He knows what we are going to do (thou He does not control our choices) He knows everything that ever has or ever will happen.....

He knows literally and absolutely EVERYTHING   

Why so many limitations put on God?    God has zero limits in every aspect of everything. 

 

[rsc2a]

Since you made the analogy about man being the producer of a movie, are you suggesting that God is the producer of all events?

You are being very inconsistent with your statements on the other thread.

I said very loosely.....

He created us.....He gave us free will.....He knows what we are going to do (thou He does not control our choices) He knows everything that ever has or ever will happen.....

And yet you acknowledge that the very determining factors that lead you making those choices were given by God, Who being omniscient would know the exact choice you would make given those factors....

 

[Bo]

Since you made the analogy about man being the producer of a movie, are you suggesting that God is the producer of all events?

You are being very inconsistent with your statements on the other thread.

I said very loosely.....

He created us.....He gave us free will.....He knows what we are going to do (thou He does not control our choices) He knows everything that ever has or ever will happen.....

And yet you acknowledge that the very determining factors that lead you making those choices were given by God, Who being omniscient would know the exact choice you would make given those factors....

its up to us.......He just already knows what we are gonna do....

yes....He is all knowing...so He knows what choice we will make without interfering with our choice making process....

is it too hard for you to accept that He has that power?  I know you like to put limitations on God.......so I guess that in the mind of someone who has decided that God has faults....and limits....and does not have infinite knowledge....it would be perfectly reasonable to believe that God could not know everything that was ever gonna happen unless He controlled it.....

almost makes Him to be like man....has faults...has to learn....caint know whats going to happen without being in control of it......

hmm....ever read anywhere around Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

????  God is not like us.....He knows it all....He is perfect.....He has no faults.....He does not learn....who or what is gonna teach Him??

its ridiculous and all it is ....is someone knowing their own limitations tryin to make God out to have limitations......

 

[FSSL]

Your analogy was not even a loose one.

If God did not direct the movie, then His knowledge was sequential and limited.

Your god is too small.

 

[Bo]

Your analogy was not even a loose one.

If God did not direct the movie, then His knowledge was sequential and limited.

Your god is too small.

your takin my analogy to literal....
lets forget that one since some of yall wanna just use it to avoid debating the big picture.....

this is the facts....God knows everything we will do....but chooses not to control it....

better?  or is that too hard to understand also?

 

[Bo]

Your analogy was not even a loose one.

If God did not direct the movie, then His knowledge was sequential and limited.

Your god is too small.

and God doesn't learn.......

tell me who is in a position to teach God something?  and ill tell you someone who aint no better than Lucifer who "said in his heart I will be LIKE the most high"  ???

to teach God something or have God learn something from you or anyone else would be to say that He is inferior to that person in some aspect or issue....its blasphemy and its idiotic 

heck...at least the devil only wanted to be like Him and not have some sort of knowledge over Him

 

[FSSL]

Your analogy was not even a loose one.

If God did not direct the movie, then His knowledge was sequential and limited.

Your god is too small.

your takin my analogy to literal....
lets forget that one since some of yall wanna just use it to avoid debating the big picture.....

Or you could admit it was a decent analogy that blew up on you..

...this is the facts....God knows everything we will do....but chooses not to control it....

God certainly does control everything. Otherwise He is not Sovereign.

God directs the heart of the king. (Prov)
God announced He would harden Pharaoh's heart (Exo)
God predetermined to have His Son crucified (Acts)

God IS the director and knows what will happen in the future, not because he merely looked ahead, but because He planned it all.

Any knowledge without planning it all is just learned knowledge.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Your analogy was not even a loose one.

If God did not direct the movie, then His knowledge was sequential and limited.

Your god is too small.

your takin my analogy to literal....
lets forget that one since some of yall wanna just use it to avoid debating the big picture.....

Or you could admit it was a decent analogy that blew up on you..

...this is the facts....God knows everything we will do....but chooses not to control it....

God certainly does control everything. Otherwise He is not Sovereign.

God directs the heart of the king. (Prov)
God announced He would harden Pharaoh's heart (Exo)
God predetermined to have His Son crucified (Acts)

God IS the director and knows what will happen in the future, not because he merely looked ahead, but because He planned it all.

Any knowledge without planning it all is just learned knowledge.

Funny how that works.

Nebuchadnezzar testifies from personal experience under inspiration of God.

Dan 4:34  And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

Dan 4:35  And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

He orders the angels, which are the host of heaven, to stand or go where he pleases; and he disposes of men on earth, and puts them into such stations, and such conditions and circumstances, and appoints them such business and services, as he thinks meet. The LORD is Sovereign.

 

[FSSL]

I have a good friend that was not convinced of the idea of the Doctrines of Grace.

He told me, "Since I do not have this settled in my mind yet, my 'default position' is that the Sovereignty of God's will ranks above man's will."

Those who come to the initial conclusion that man's will trumps God, must reevaluate the false teachers in their lives.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Your analogy was not even a loose one.

If God did not direct the movie, then His knowledge was sequential and limited.

Your god is too small.

Funny. You refused to answer my last question. Why have you taken this topic up with a novice? Is it because you feel you have an advantage?

All things are sequential. Even memory is sequential. One thought begats another thought. This is something very easily understood and yet you refuse to acknowledge it?

Why?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I have a good friend that was not convinced of the idea of the Doctrines of Grace.

He told me, "Since I do not have this settled in my mind yet, my 'default position' is that the Sovereignty of God's will ranks above man's will."

Those who come to the initial conclusion that man's will trumps God, must reevaluate the false teachers in their lives.

Its a good thing your "friend" isn't convinced of a lie! Do you enjoy lying to your friend?

God's Sovereign action in humanity is to grant man freewill. Man can operate within the boundaries of God's Sovereign action. What you're saying is nothing more than child saying the boogie man exists because its dark outside.

 

[rsc2a]

God's sovereign action is to not be sovereign?