Does God learn?

FSSL said:
Bo said:
FSSL said:
We are talking about a spiritually dead person, not a homeless man cleaning himself up.

Spiritually dead people cannot and do not accept the things of God unless God miraculously gives them new life. It is only then that man can, and most certainly will repent.
God does give them new life!!!  I agree with you!!!  I really do. 

But....

The word "but" undermines your point. All throughout this discussion you ignore Scripture in favor of your own understanding and analogies.

You dismiss the idea that God actually directs the heart of the king. You prefer to think of man's condition as a homeless man rather than actually spiritually dead.

No one seeks God (Ro 3). Why not? Spiritually dead people have no desire to seek God.
answer this for me........tell me 1 single sin....that God directed your heart to commit against Him...? 

if you believe that...then do you believe that we have the Holy spirit with us on earth now?  and that the holy spirit convicts us and talks to our hearts to do one way or the other?  and that when we sin we resist against the holy spirit?

or does the holy spirit tell us to do what little good we do and also tells us to do the bad that we do?

satan doesn't put his demons against us to tempt us into doing evil?  into committing sin? 

the holy spirit leads us to sin?

that sounds a lot like blasphemy of the holy spirit to me!  might wanna pray to God to open your heart and mind that you might understand the scriptures....and then read your bible one more time brother
 
You reject God's Sovereignty in the story of Joseph. So... the idea of sin, in God's plan, is lost on you.

Until you really accept the idea that God's Sovereignty uses the sin of mankind to bring about His glory, the idea of sin, to you, is somehow outside God's control.

God meant the evil actions of the brothers to ultimately be good. Romans 8 tells us ALL THINGS work together for good.

The idea and purpose of sin, in a man-centered theology is always impossible to explain.

Just read Scripture. It is a story where God uses sin to bring about our glorification. THAT requires a Sovereign God who is in control of man's sin. A "Strong Suggestor" is frail and undercuts God.
 
Bo said:
No.....im sure God did direct the heart of the king..

giving direction is not controlling....

It certainly is controlling. It involves putting the person in that position and controlling his every move. The king does exactly what the king wants to do, even when he unwittingly ends up accomplishing God's decrees.

You still duck out of the points by raising others you do not understand.

You cannot answer biblically. Why not? Because none of us understand our own direction because God directs our EVERY step. (Prov 20)
 
FSSL said:
You reject God's Sovereignty in the story of Joseph. So... the idea of sin, in God's plan, is lost on you.

Until you really accept the idea that God's Sovereignty uses the sin of mankind to bring about His glory, the idea of sin, to you, is somehow outside God's control.

God meant the evil actions of the brothers to ultimately be good. Romans 8 tells us ALL THINGS work together for good.

The idea and purpose of sin, in a man-centered theology is always impossible to explain.

Just read Scripture. It is a story where God uses sin to bring about our glorification. THAT requires a Sovereign God who is in control of man's sin. A "Strong Suggestor" is frail and undercuts God.
Nothing is outside of Gods control and I don't ever say that....it is in His control.....He could control our every actions if He wanted to....but He don't.....He gives us free will. 
 
Again.... Your concept of free will undermines Scripture.

Please explain which steps man can take that are exempt from Proverbs 20.24.
 
FSSL said:
You reject God's Sovereignty in the story of Joseph. So... the idea of sin, in God's plan, is lost on you.

Until you really accept the idea that God's Sovereignty uses the sin of mankind to bring about His glory, the idea of sin, to you, is somehow outside God's control.

God meant the evil actions of the brothers to ultimately be good. Romans 8 tells us ALL THINGS work together for good.

The idea and purpose of sin, in a man-centered theology is always impossible to explain.

Just read Scripture. It is a story where God uses sin to bring about our glorification. THAT requires a Sovereign God who is in control of man's sin. A "Strong Suggestor" is frail and undercuts God.

when did I say God is not sovereign?  He has supreme rule.......and supreme power....and is perfectly capable of doing anything He wants.

If He purposely causes us to sin.....why does scripture say He is perfect and that in Him there is no darkness?  darkness of course meaning evil? 

Scripture tells us He cannot do evil......so would it not be evil to cause us to do evil?

Scripture tells us its wicked for us to entice our brother to sin......

you make no sense with scripture.....your the one throwing ur own ideas into this.....none of scripture or the anything the bible teaches coincides with what you are trying to argue....absolutely none of it!
 
FSSL said:
Again.... Your concept of free will undermines Scripture.

Please explain which steps man can take that are exempt from Proverbs 20.24.
once again.....get in deep prayer brother....and ask the Lord to open your eyes so that you might understand the scriptures.....

ill pray for you also
 
Bo said:
FSSL said:
You reject God's Sovereignty in the story of Joseph. So... the idea of sin, in God's plan, is lost on you.

Until you really accept the idea that God's Sovereignty uses the sin of mankind to bring about His glory, the idea of sin, to you, is somehow outside God's control.

God meant the evil actions of the brothers to ultimately be good. Romans 8 tells us ALL THINGS work together for good.

The idea and purpose of sin, in a man-centered theology is always impossible to explain.

Just read Scripture. It is a story where God uses sin to bring about our glorification. THAT requires a Sovereign God who is in control of man's sin. A "Strong Suggestor" is frail and undercuts God.

when did I say God is not sovereign?  He has supreme rule.......and supreme power....and is perfectly capable of doing anything He wants.

If He purposely causes us to sin.....why does scripture say He is perfect and that in Him there is no darkness?  darkness of course meaning evil? 

Scripture tells us He cannot do evil......so would it not be evil to cause us to do evil?

Paul anticipate your question about evil:

"One of you will say to me: ?Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?? But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? ?Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ?Why did you make me like this?? ?  Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath?prepared for destruction"

Your questions reject God's right to do as He pleases... and assume that God is evil for using evil to accomplish His purposes. That is why Paul strongly goes after your line of questioning...
 
FSSL said:
Bo said:
FSSL said:
You reject God's Sovereignty in the story of Joseph. So... the idea of sin, in God's plan, is lost on you.

Until you really accept the idea that God's Sovereignty uses the sin of mankind to bring about His glory, the idea of sin, to you, is somehow outside God's control.

God meant the evil actions of the brothers to ultimately be good. Romans 8 tells us ALL THINGS work together for good.

The idea and purpose of sin, in a man-centered theology is always impossible to explain.

Just read Scripture. It is a story where God uses sin to bring about our glorification. THAT requires a Sovereign God who is in control of man's sin. A "Strong Suggestor" is frail and undercuts God.

when did I say God is not sovereign?  He has supreme rule.......and supreme power....and is perfectly capable of doing anything He wants.

If He purposely causes us to sin.....why does scripture say He is perfect and that in Him there is no darkness?  darkness of course meaning evil? 

Scripture tells us He cannot do evil......so would it not be evil to cause us to do evil?

Paul anticipate your question about evil:

"One of you will say to me: ?Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?? But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? ?Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ?Why did you make me like this?? ?  Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath?prepared for destruction"

Your questions reject God's right to do as He pleases... and assume that God is evil for using evil to accomplish His purposes. That is why Paul strongly goes after your line of questioning...

you basically rested my case for me.....lol

this is the second time you posting scripture has further proved my point......

2 of my arguments against you is from you!  lol....
 
Bo said:
FSSL said:
Again.... Your concept of free will undermines Scripture.

Please explain which steps man can take that are exempt from Proverbs 20.24.
once again.....get in deep prayer brother....and ask the Lord to open your eyes so that you might understand the scriptures.....

ill pray for you also

My eyes are open. I let Scripture say what it says. "EVERY STEP" is directed by God. It is not a matter of a lack of piety on my part. It is a truth that runs counter to man's wisdom. I accept it and take comfort that God is in control of every detail of my life.
 
FSSL said:
Bo said:
FSSL said:
Again.... Your concept of free will undermines Scripture.

Please explain which steps man can take that are exempt from Proverbs 20.24.
once again.....get in deep prayer brother....and ask the Lord to open your eyes so that you might understand the scriptures.....

ill pray for you also

My eyes are open. I let Scripture say what it says. "EVERY STEP" is directed by God. It is not a matter of a lack of piety on my part. It is a truth that runs counter to man's wisdom. I accept it and take comfort that God is in control of every detail of my life.
I agree....but DIRECTED is not FORCED......

you DIRECT your children to do right......but you cannot FORCE them to do anything.....

its extremely simple....no need to try to complicate Gods word to make oneself seem more intelligent   
and it wasn't especially you that did that...it was John Calvin.......your just confused from his heresy
 
Bo said:
you basically rested my case for me.....lol

this is the second time you posting scripture has further proved my point......

2 of my arguments against you is from you!  lol....

You delude yourself into thinking that you have any ability to discuss evil in God's plan.

You just throw out questions and then follow up with this nonsense, pretending to have made a point that doesn't exist.
 
FSSL said:
Bo said:
you basically rested my case for me.....lol

this is the second time you posting scripture has further proved my point......

2 of my arguments against you is from you!  lol....

You delude yourself into thinking that you have any ability to discuss evil in God's plan.

You just throw out questions and then follow up with this nonsense, pretending to have made a point that doesn't exist.
scripture doesn't exist?
the bible doesn't exist?
salvation doesn't exist?
 
Bo said:
FSSL said:
Bo said:
FSSL said:
Again.... Your concept of free will undermines Scripture.

Please explain which steps man can take that are exempt from Proverbs 20.24.
once again.....get in deep prayer brother....and ask the Lord to open your eyes so that you might understand the scriptures.....

ill pray for you also

My eyes are open. I let Scripture say what it says. "EVERY STEP" is directed by God. It is not a matter of a lack of piety on my part. It is a truth that runs counter to man's wisdom. I accept it and take comfort that God is in control of every detail of my life.
I agree....but DIRECTED is not FORCED......

you DIRECT your children to do right......but you cannot FORCE them to do anything.....

Don't change the biblical analogy. Unlike God, I am unable to direct EVERY STEP of my child.

Please tell us which steps are exempt from Prov 20. Your avoidance is obvious.
 
Bo said:
scripture doesn't exist?
the bible doesn't exist?
salvation doesn't exist?

Your ability to interact with the Scripture does not exist. You keep changing the biblical analogies for your own. Somehow this deludes you into thinking you actually have discussed the Bible.
 
FSSL said:
Bo said:
FSSL said:
Bo said:
FSSL said:
Again.... Your concept of free will undermines Scripture.

Please explain which steps man can take that are exempt from Proverbs 20.24.
once again.....get in deep prayer brother....and ask the Lord to open your eyes so that you might understand the scriptures.....

ill pray for you also

My eyes are open. I let Scripture say what it says. "EVERY STEP" is directed by God. It is not a matter of a lack of piety on my part. It is a truth that runs counter to man's wisdom. I accept it and take comfort that God is in control of every detail of my life.
I agree....but DIRECTED is not FORCED......

you DIRECT your children to do right......but you cannot FORCE them to do anything.....

Don't change the biblical analogy. Unlike God, I am unable to direct EVERY STEP of my child.

Please tell us which steps are exempt from Prov 20. Your avoidance is obvious.
no your false interpretation of what the scripture says is obvious.....

make that verse fit in with the teachings of the rest of the bible and see how it sounds after that?

of course the way of man is of the Lord....He created us all......and we are not to understand the way of the Lord or the way He has decided to use us......

but He doesn't control us.....He has plans for us.......but doesn't force them on us.....
 
Bo said:
FSSL said:
Bo said:
FSSL said:
Again.... Your concept of free will undermines Scripture.

Please explain which steps man can take that are exempt from Proverbs 20.24.
once again.....get in deep prayer brother....and ask the Lord to open your eyes so that you might understand the scriptures.....

ill pray for you also

My eyes are open. I let Scripture say what it says. "EVERY STEP" is directed by God. It is not a matter of a lack of piety on my part. It is a truth that runs counter to man's wisdom. I accept it and take comfort that God is in control of every detail of my life.
I agree....but DIRECTED is not FORCED......

you DIRECT your children to do right......but you cannot FORCE them to do anything.....

its extremely simple....no need to try to complicate Gods word to make oneself seem more intelligent   
and it wasn't especially you that did that...it was John Calvin.......your just confused from his heresy

Looks like the LORD GOD forced Pharaoh. One can force a fish when you put hooks in its mouth.

The allusion is to fishhooks, which are taken by fishes with the bait into their mouths, and stick in their jaws, by which they are drawn out of the river, and taken. The king of Egypt being before compared to a fish, these hooks design some powerful princes and armies, which should be the ruin of Pharaoh; one of them, according to Junius and Grotius, was Amasis, at the head of the Cyreneans and Greeks; and another was Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; see Job 41:1,

Eze 29:3  Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.
Eze 29:4  But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.

I do not think we can understand how God thinks or operates, we must just take Him at His Word.

Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

"You can't figure God out." No human has the intellect it would take to understand God. We should just stop trying and begin believing what He says.
 
FSSL said:
Please tell us which steps are exempt from Prov 20. Your avoidance is obvious.

He's probably too busy during his wife to love him so he cannot answer.
 
bgwilkinson said:
Bo said:
FSSL said:
Bo said:
FSSL said:
Again.... Your concept of free will undermines Scripture.

Please explain which steps man can take that are exempt from Proverbs 20.24.
once again.....get in deep prayer brother....and ask the Lord to open your eyes so that you might understand the scriptures.....

ill pray for you also

My eyes are open. I let Scripture say what it says. "EVERY STEP" is directed by God. It is not a matter of a lack of piety on my part. It is a truth that runs counter to man's wisdom. I accept it and take comfort that God is in control of every detail of my life.
I agree....but DIRECTED is not FORCED......

you DIRECT your children to do right......but you cannot FORCE them to do anything.....

its extremely simple....no need to try to complicate Gods word to make oneself seem more intelligent   
and it wasn't especially you that did that...it was John Calvin.......your just confused from his heresy

Looks like the LORD GOD forced Pharaoh. One can force a fish when you put hooks in its mouth.

The allusion is to fishhooks, which are taken by fishes with the bait into their mouths, and stick in their jaws, by which they are drawn out of the river, and taken. The king of Egypt being before compared to a fish, these hooks design some powerful princes and armies, which should be the ruin of Pharaoh; one of them, according to Junius and Grotius, was Amasis, at the head of the Cyreneans and Greeks; and another was Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; see Job 41:1,

Eze 29:3  Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.
Eze 29:4  But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.

I do not think we can understand how God thinks or operates, we must just take Him at His Word.

Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

"You can't figure God out." No human has the intellect it would take to understand God. We should just stop trying and begin believing what He says.

I believe that we have free will....but now I do believe there does come a point where God does take it away however....

i believe the hook in the jaw of Pharaoh was less of God controlling his mind and more of God using what He knew of pharaoh against him.

(i use this as an example because i work industrial maintenance and have seen this from time to time)  there comes a guy every once in a while that will just pick up anything he sees and mess with it weather he knows what it is or not.....so i have seen people leave live capacitors (which hold electricity, but will give an initial shock and then all be gone....non fatal...just humerously painful for a moment) sittin out just to get a laugh at a new guy....they laid the bait and set the hook.

i believe it was more a play against his known nasty character than an actual MIND control

.......it says that in the last days when God takes the Christians to live in heaven and leaves the lost behind that there will be some that He makes to believe a lie.  i understand He has this power and can use it at will....anytime He so chooses.  But i just don't believe that every decision we make is controlled and forced by Him. 

 
Bo said:
...in the last days when God takes the Christians to live in heaven and leaves the lost behind that...

More bad theology.

And are you still forcing your wife tho love you? I figured since you won't touch the question about the origin of Satan (but that I blame you given your views) that you might as least advise that one.
 
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