Donald Trump

ALAYMAN said:
I don’t feel any shame, probably for the same reason that I don’t feel any personal shame over what Jack Schaap or Jimmy Swaggart did. And I am not going to stop going to church because of what Ted Haggard or Jim Baker did. Neither am I going to stop quoting Martin Luther King Jr “be judged by the content of a man’s character, rather than the color skin” because I’m white, nor stop speaking out against abortion just because I’m merely a male.
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Do you defend or excuse any of their actions? Do you rationalize said behaviors behind a "they do it too" or "what about him?" or "he was a great soul winner". I know you don't personally. But the rot in the church is real. We are called to higher things and yet.
 
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subllibrm said:
Do you defend or excuse any of their actions? Do you rationalize said behaviors behind a "they do it too" or "what about him?" or "he was a great soul winner". I know you don't. But the rot in the church is real. We are called to higher things and yet.
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Totally agree that Trump and those who defend his deplorable character should be urged or even admonished to take a higher road. And I have heard numerous (Christian ) people in the same spectrum of political analysis as myself say that they wish that there were somebody who could attend to the office with integrity and dignity, yet accomplish the platform policy achievements that Trump did. But I’d also like to have $1 million and an endless supply of ribeye steaks, instead, in the meantime I’ll have to keep going to work, and looking for the markdown sirloin at my local IGA. I’m a real pragmatist. I don’t begrudge you of abiding by your conscience, but I don’t find such arguments compelling enough to overlook the realities (of widespread unrighteousness) that electing someone like Biden produces.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Totally agree that Trump and those who defend his deplorable character should be urged or even admonished to take a higher road. And I have heard numerous (Christian ) people in the same spectrum of political analysis as myself say that they wish that there were somebody who could attend to the office with integrity and dignity, yet accomplish the platform policy achievements that Trump did. But I’d also like to have $1 million and an endless supply of ribeye steaks, instead, in the meantime I’ll have to keep going to work, and looking for the markdown sirloin at my local IGA. I’m a real pragmatist. I don’t begrudge you of abiding by your conscience, but I don’t find such arguments compelling enough to overlook the realities (of widespread unrighteousness) that electing someone like Biden produces.
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Sadly, I feel that I am too late. The widespread unrighteousness is already here and the church trying to solve a spiritual problem with a political solution has led us here IMO. I can personally trace my fears of where we were headed back to the second Reagan campaign. His first run was the first time that abortion was a significant campaign issue. Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority thumped the drum for Mr. Reagan. When he won abortion was put on a back burner because we had to fix the economy first. No real work put into it but when the re-election platform was being assembled all of the sudden abortion was again a top issue. Lip service. Decades of lip service.

Sometime I will write out the timeline as to how/when I realized that the church had become to the Republican Party what blacks were to the Democrats.
 
FSSL said:
You assume too much. Christians can vote for Trump without being Tribalists, etc.
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Or I can reread this thread and see the tribal impulses written out. :)
 
It's getting mighty.crowded under that bus. Anyone know a lawyer with a better waist-to-chest ratio?

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subllibrm said:
Thank you.

Nothing that the Republicans Party offers is worth selling ones soul as it were.
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so.. is it selling ones soul to vote for a president that will prevent wars?.... actually saving peoples lives by keeping the peace?....that alone would have been all the incentive i needed to vote for trump if nothing else mattered to me.... ... ..because in my opinion it;s selling ones soul to vote for a man like biden... or otherwise enable his regime - whose projections of weakness and ineptitude have encouraged enemies to attack both us and our allies - killing american service personnel.. and putting the lives of millions in danger of a 3rd world war - and all for the sake of being disgusted over some dirty words and mean tweets.... ..... you are as backward as your moniker mr bill bus....

but there is more than that which makes this election personal for us.... .we have friends and family members in harms way in the middle east right now due to bidens policies of inaction and appeasement of enemies... ... and other american families today are mourning the loss of their own family members who died in terror attacks made possible because biden enriched iran and encouraged their terrorist actions..... .. that was not the case under trump.... and like i said before even the protagonists in the wars currently being fought both in israel and ukraine admitted they would not have attacked if trump had been president.. ....
 
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biscuit1953 said:
Now we have gone full boat participation. "Libtard", "Feminazi", "Killary", "Lock Her Up". "Oblahblah", "Let's Go Brandon" - ad nauseum. Y'all think any of that pleases our Father?
I have never heard Franklin Graham or any other Christian leader use such language and you haven't either. Stop lying about it.
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Which is one of the reasons I abandoned my FARCEbook account. I was always wading into political arguments and while I tried to restrain myself from calling names, the fact is when I get fired up, I become a total [donkey], and I don't mean the democratic kind. Just because I'm right, 😏 that doesn't give me permission to act like a [donkey].

I have found I lead a much more peaceful existence when I stick with the Word and keep my politics to myself. That's not to say I'll back down if defending my position becomes appropriate, it means I keep my peace and stand on what matters.
 
subllibrm said:
Sadly, I feel that I am too late. The widespread unrighteousness is already here and the church trying to solve a spiritual problem with a political solution has led us here IMO. I can personally trace my fears of where we were headed back to the second Reagan campaign. His first run was the first time that abortion was a significant campaign issue. Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority thumped the drum for Mr. Reagan. When he won abortion was put on a back burner because we had to fix the economy first. No real work put into it but when the re-election platform was being assembled all of the sudden abortion was again a top issue. Lip service. Decades of lip service.

Sometime I will write out the timeline as to how/when I realized that the church had become to the Republican Party what blacks were to the Democrats.
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I get what you're saying about "the church" conflating the issue of politics with religion, but in my corner of the world, nobody confuses the purpose of the two distinct entities. Participating in each realm with the appropriate emphasis is not a mutually exclusive proposition. I'll grant you that thinking that the White House can make people righteous is a gross distortion of how some so-called Christians may think about their use of politics, but I doubt that's the case for pew-sitters in balanced evangelical/fundamental churches. Those folks that do confuse the two domains (or exchange one for the other) are prolly best understood in the same vein that cultural Christians always ought to have been placed. Many folk in churches think (at least subconsciously) that just because they subscribe to some form of moral-therapeutic-deism that they are the real deal, but that form of the gospel is defective. So the cure isn't to abandon politics, but rather teach the people not to substitute one for the other.
 
I never thought that voting for someone who is a sinner is a compromise. I remember people telling me they wouldnt vote for Regan because he was a divorcee.

Im glad I voted for Regan.
 
subllibrm said:
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Staahhp!

Was it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar? What kind of man do you think he was?

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's. Christians have an obligation to do their civic duty. And when Caesar asks for your vote, you have an obligation to yield it.

If you think that's a compromise, then get thee to a nunnery.
 
subllibrm said:
Will will end up like Canada (if we aren't already) not because of who we elect. Who we elect reflects who we already have become.

Much of the reason that the USA has fallen so fast is because we had already been falling for decades. The church being distracted by politics allowed her to walk away from, or at minimum neglect of, her primary purpose. The election choice of Donald Trump/Joe Biden is not the problem but a symptom of the problem. Americans (including the church) are a hedonistic, nihilistic, self-absorbed nation of adult children in search of fulfillment through any means but God.

America needs revival but it won't be through the ballot box. As someone said in an earlier post we are under God's judgement and He will start with the church. We are losing our children to the heresies of progressive christianity if not to outright apostasy. Have we not given any consideration to the idea that our mingling politics with the gospel has been part of the the cause? Are we not commanded to keep ourselves unspotted from the world? Is there anything more worldly that the political process? Remember when eating at a restaurant that served alcohol would destroy our testimony? That was proximity. Now we have gone full boat participation. "Libtard", "Feminazi", "Killary", "Lock Her Up". "Oblahblah", "Let's Go Brandon" - ad nauseum. Y'all think any of that pleases our Father? The fact that the church has allowed herself to be identified with these things is why the lost can't hear us when we do try to share the gospel. Shame on us.
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To your chagrin, I don’t think anyone is arguing that politics/the ballot box can bring revival.
And your arguing that voting, being politically involved, is sinful! Please.
And it hindering our sharing the gospel is basically the same argument given by Begg for telling Granny to attend the Trans funeral.

Trump is a flawed, sinful, prideful, arrogant man.
But so are many/most every other politician…they just hide it better than Trump.
He’s a political figure…not a spiritual leader.
Voting Trump is not a sin, doesn’t make us worldly and doesn’t hinder God’s sovereignty in any way, shape or form.

No matter what your newsfeed might say 😉
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
To your chagrin, I don’t think anyone is arguing that politics/the ballot box can bring revival.
And your arguing that voting, being politically involved, is sinful! Please.
And it hindering our sharing the gospel is basically the same argument given by Begg for telling Granny to attend the Trans funeral.

Trump is a flawed, sinful, prideful, arrogant man.
But so are many/most every other politician…they just hide it better than Trump.
He’s a political figure…not a spiritual leader.
Voting Trump is not a sin, doesn’t make us worldly and doesn’t hinder God’s sovereignty in any way, shape or form.

No matter what your newsfeed might say 😉
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Well those who are looking for a perfect political candidate, I hate to tell you this. But only one man was born in this sinful world, perfectly sinless, lived his life that way and died that way. Last I noticed He is not running for office. If you want to be a perfect person, take note, only man ever being born perfect, ended up being crucified.
 
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