Jack Hyles and Dave Hyles

When my children were little, someone recommended I get Bro Hyles books on How to Rear Children etc.  <I had these books already from college, they were dust gathering>
I told them, it wasn't now nor would it ever be my intention to rear a Dave Hyles.  They were SHOCKED.  They also quit giving me child-rearing advice, LOL
 
When Tim ran out on Becky with the 16 year old girl and then DH doing his thing soon after that I could no longer trust anything he wrote that involved raising children. I did not want my kids turning out like the Hyles kids.
So we never used them or read them.

The Bible alone works just fine as a guide book for raising Sterling quality children.


Those books are still in a box with other bad books marked do not use.
 
SwampHag said:
When my children were little, someone recommended I get Bro Hyles books on How to Rear Children etc.  &lt;I had these books already from college, they were dust gathering&gt;
I told them, it wasn't now nor would it ever be my intention to rear a Dave Hyles.  They were SHOCKED.  They also quit giving me child-rearing advice, LOL
Wait a minute.  I thought you loved those books and didn't give a flippin rip what anybody else thought!
 
We were taught to give God our all, and let God care for our all.  We were told to work insane hours for way below poverty wages.  We were told to ignore our wives and let the church rear our children while we served.  We were taught service for God is more important than relationship with God.

Speaking from experience.  We were taught a lie.  But we sure did help some church grow in number and the mog to live luxuriously.
 
Binaca Chugger said:
SwampHag said:
When my children were little, someone recommended I get Bro Hyles books on How to Rear Children etc.  &lt;I had these books already from college, they were dust gathering&gt;
I told them, it wasn't now nor would it ever be my intention to rear a Dave Hyles.  They were SHOCKED.  They also quit giving me child-rearing advice, LOL
Wait a minute.  I thought you loved those books and didn't give a flippin rip what anybody else thought!

I can love Bro Hyles <NOT DAVE FOR SURE> and disagree with his child rearing methods.  No need to get snarly.  I was just trying to be NICE to anyone who wanted some of his poetry books and such.
And this is why I disappear from here.  I just don't do snarl anymore.
 
SwampHag said:
Binaca Chugger said:
SwampHag said:
When my children were little, someone recommended I get Bro Hyles books on How to Rear Children etc.  &lt;I had these books already from college, they were dust gathering&gt;
I told them, it wasn't now nor would it ever be my intention to rear a Dave Hyles.  They were SHOCKED.  They also quit giving me child-rearing advice, LOL
Wait a minute.  I thought you loved those books and didn't give a flippin rip what anybody else thought!

I can love Bro Hyles &lt;NOT DAVE FOR SURE&gt; and disagree with his child rearing methods.  No need to get snarly.  I was just trying to be NICE to anyone who wanted some of his poetry books and such.
And this is why I disappear from here.  I just don't do snarl anymore.
No need to get touchy.  I thought the irony was humorous.  Well, the irony and your Baptist cussing. 
 
Binaca Chugger said:
We were taught to give God our all, and let God care for our all.  We were told to work insane hours for way below poverty wages.  We were told to ignore our wives and let the church rear our children while we served.  We were taught service for God is more important than relationship with God.
If you were taught this then you allowed yourself to be taught this.  I went to the same schools and the same college and I rejected out of hand anyone who taught such things immediately and crossed them from my lists of who to take advice from.  Many people used Bro Hyles authority, allowed or not to say many things that he never endorsed.  Never did I ever. ever, ever hear that service was more important than relationship with God.  People did practice that but I never heard it preached.  You have a responsibility to be your own berean.
 
TidesofTruth said:
Binaca Chugger said:
We were taught to give God our all, and let God care for our all.  We were told to work insane hours for way below poverty wages.  We were told to ignore our wives and let the church rear our children while we served.  We were taught service for God is more important than relationship with God.
If you were taught this then you allowed yourself to be taught this.  I went to the same schools and the same college and I rejected out of hand anyone who taught such things immediately and crossed them from my lists of who to take advice from.  Many people used Bro Hyles authority, allowed or not to say many things that he never endorsed.  Never did I ever. ever, ever hear that service was more important than relationship with God.  People did practice that but I never heard it preached.  You have a responsibility to be your own berean.
Same is different.  You showed up from there as an adult.  I had those theories bred in me from the time I was a day old.  I knew nothing else existed until I chose to walk away.
 
Binaca Chugger said:
TidesofTruth said:
Binaca Chugger said:
We were taught to give God our all, and let God care for our all.  We were told to work insane hours for way below poverty wages.  We were told to ignore our wives and let the church rear our children while we served.  We were taught service for God is more important than relationship with God.
If you were taught this then you allowed yourself to be taught this.  I went to the same schools and the same college and I rejected out of hand anyone who taught such things immediately and crossed them from my lists of who to take advice from.  Many people used Bro Hyles authority, allowed or not to say many things that he never endorsed.  Never did I ever. ever, ever hear that service was more important than relationship with God.  People did practice that but I never heard it preached.  You have a responsibility to be your own berean.
Same is different.  You showed up from there as an adult.  I had those theories bred in me from the time I was a day old.  I knew nothing else existed until I chose to walk away.
I showed up there as a 14 day old.
 
TidesofTruth said:
prophet said:
TidesofTruth said:
Citadel of Truth said:
bgwilkinson said:
He sacrificed his family on the altar of his ministry.

Sadly, this same philosophy is being taught in all the colleges spawned from HAC. They'll not say it directly, but they leave no doubt that the ministry comes before anything else.

What they fail to teach is that if a man looses his family, he also looses his ministry.

Certainly one may try to blame it on HAC, however men have a tendency to do this already regardless of what their job is.  HAC would have given an excuse for this behavior but I highly doubt the cause of it.  Men in general have a tendency to get caught up in their work and it is already a huge danger.  Cause and effect must be logical here.  The Cause is not HAC.  The excuse certainly could be.
You didnt attend HAC, am I right?

We were led to believe that we should give all to the ministry, and God would magically raise our family for us.

Look at the schedule married students were asked to keep for 4 years.
I attended as a bit older student who already understood the wreck and ruin of people who drove other people for power.
So, did you grow up at HAC, or show up as an adult?
 
TidesofTruth said:
Binaca Chugger said:
We were taught to give God our all, and let God care for our all.  We were told to work insane hours for way below poverty wages.  We were told to ignore our wives and let the church rear our children while we served.  We were taught service for God is more important than relationship with God.
If you were taught this then you allowed yourself to be taught this.  I went to the same schools and the same college and I rejected out of hand anyone who taught such things immediately and crossed them from my lists of who to take advice from.  Many people used Bro Hyles authority, allowed or not to say many things that he never endorsed.  Never did I ever. ever, ever hear that service was more important than relationship with God.  People did practice that but I never heard it preached.  You have a responsibility to be your own berean.
If you never heard it preached, you weren't listening.
 
I agree. If you truly "rejected out of hand anyone who taught such things immediately and crossed them from my lists of who to take advice from" then that also applied to Jack Hyles. He proclaimed it often. Again, refer to his probably fictional story about Dave "giving his dad to God" and you have the model for what all of us were supposed to fo.

Binaca Chugger said:
TidesofTruth said:
Binaca Chugger said:
We were taught to give God our all, and let God care for our all.  We were told to work insane hours for way below poverty wages.  We were told to ignore our wives and let the church rear our children while we served.  We were taught service for God is more important than relationship with God.
If you were taught this then you allowed yourself to be taught this.  I went to the same schools and the same college and I rejected out of hand anyone who taught such things immediately and crossed them from my lists of who to take advice from.  Many people used Bro Hyles authority, allowed or not to say many things that he never endorsed.  Never did I ever. ever, ever hear that service was more important than relationship with God.  People did practice that but I never heard it preached.  You have a responsibility to be your own berean.
If you never heard it preached, you weren't listening.
 
Binaca Chugger said:
SwampHag said:
Binaca Chugger said:
SwampHag said:
When my children were little, someone recommended I get Bro Hyles books on How to Rear Children etc.  &lt;I had these books already from college, they were dust gathering&gt;
I told them, it wasn't now nor would it ever be my intention to rear a Dave Hyles.  They were SHOCKED.  They also quit giving me child-rearing advice, LOL
Wait a minute.  I thought you loved those books and didn't give a flippin rip what anybody else thought!

I can love Bro Hyles &lt;NOT DAVE FOR SURE&gt; and disagree with his child rearing methods.  No need to get snarly.  I was just trying to be NICE to anyone who wanted some of his poetry books and such.
And this is why I disappear from here.  I just don't do snarl anymore.
No need to get touchy.  I thought the irony was humorous.  Well, the irony and your Baptist cussing.

Baptist cussing?  I think not.  That's this ridiculous forum and its glitches.
 
And, FWIW, I have been on this forum since the old Don Elbourne days, and I have argued and debated all things HAC/FBCH/IFB and I am over it.  I am done with all that.  Christ did not give me a mandate to argue about other churches.  He did not give me a mandate to prowl the internet looking for dirt on preachers and pastors.  He gave me a mandate to reach the lost and quite honestly, I have wasted enough time on these forums.  I enjoy the FRIENDS I have here and have made here, but I just don't enjoy the fighting anymore.
So, yeah.  I'll pop in from time to time, but I don't plan to participate actively.
 
Relax Swamphag,
We need you on the Forum. Most of us understand what you mean. You may choose not to use some of Dr. Hyles books but if someone else wanted them you were kind enough to offer. Don't let others get under your skin. To them ribbing others is all part of the fun. NEVER let them know it bugs you. It will take the fun out of it for them.
 
I did not grow up here, and came here as a newly saved adult with stars in her eyes, a la ingénue. I did not realize that by the time we arrived in 1988, the 'golden years' had passed. I now think of the time we arrived as 'the beginning of the end'.

All that to say, I did not grow up here as a child but I strongly got the message that if you were not sacrificing your family, your money, your life's ambitions and your very last ounce of strength for The Cause, you were simply not a rock star Christian, and God wanted rock star Christians. (my own description, not theirs, LOL)

The message was delivered in a more subtle manner than actually specifically SAYING you had to turn your back on everything  in order to be a worthy Christian. (Although I cannot say this was never actually said) The message read loud and clear because nearly every example pointed toward it. Legends were made for our example of: The woman who miscarried but continued on her bus route with the dead baby inside of her...the married man who only saw his family for five minutes on Saturdays after his bus route visiting, and before his all-night prayer meeting before going on the bus route all day Sunday and then off to the weekly schedule of college / work / no sleep all week long...I don't remember all the stories now, but there were many of them! And the heroic stories of how scheduled a life JH led -- every minute planned for the next decade or two, no minute wasted on anything insignificant to the cause of Christ...and the praising to the skies of the toadiest of them all, Ray Young. I believe Jim Jorgensen was close in stature, but Ray Young was the King Toady. And he was put in front of us incessantly -- the office light of Ray Young at the college burns into the night as he works into the wee hours every single night. He arises at 3:00 every morning, after working until 2:00 every morning, all for The Cause Of Christ. He drives himself relentlessly and accomplishes the work of a dozen men. His wife and children understand the sacrifice of a good soldier in the Lord's Army.

It was that kind of stuff. Literal superheroes were created out of those who sacrificed the most. I remember (hanging head in shame) wanting to do my part. I wanted to win the Servant of the Year award in Phoster Club. So I made sure to mention in my most humble-servant fashion that I stayed up all night a couple of times in preparation for Spectacular and Pastor's School because that's just typical of the servant that I was...(It was true, by the way, that I had worked through the night by myself on a big project, but I am sure I was not the only one, I just knew the right ears in to which to whisper of my incredible spiritual dediction). It worked, I won a huge garish trophy for being Servant of the Year at our annual banquet. I knew so little when I came here...I was so warped mentally. I honestly thought that I was 'moving up the ladder of success, FBC style'. And if I became 'one of the mighties', then I would truly be SOMEONE. Because everyone who was someone was at FBC. We were God's movers and shakers and we were the truly elite in His eyes. It felt so (want to swear here for emphasis but will refrain) important to be here doing what we were doing...

Does my own mental state have something to do with how I interpreted what was set before me, both in preaching and in example? Yes of course.  I now realize not only was something wrong with what was being taught, but it resonated with me because something was wrong with me.

In trying to fix me, I've realized I cannot rail against the church. The church was and is what it was and is.

We're all going to interpret things differently. We're all going to take home a different message despite having heard the same message, for we hear and understand it through the pathway of our intellect, our experience, our desires, our motivations, our perceptions, etc.
 
brainisengaged said:
It felt so (want to swear here for emphasis but will refrain) important to be here doing what we were doing...

I believe the word you are searching for here, according to SwampHag and BC, is "flippin."

We're all going to interpret things differently. We're all going to take home a different message despite having heard the same message, for we hear and understand it through the pathway of our intellect, our experience, our desires, our motivations, our perceptions, etc.

I think we all heard the same message and pretty much had the same interpretation. I agree there is a personal responsibility component to all of it.
 
TidesofTruth said:
Jack Hyles Speaks On Biblical Separation, Chapter 8

On September 24, 1966, I was spending my last day in my thirties. I decided to stay awake until midnight so I could be conscious through the last minute of my thirties. I went to the basement of our home, and there God broke my heart for my country. On my desk at the time were letters opening every door to me that a fundamental preacher could imagine entering. Two different colleges were offering me their presidency. One seminary asked me to become its president. Twenty-two letters were there from ministerial groups in large cities asking me to come and preach city-wide revival campaigns in coliseums and stadiums across America. Some of the largest cities in our nation were represented. None of that appealed to me. I did not feel that I was supposed to be a seminary or college president at the time, and I did not feel that I was to be a city-wide evangelist, but I had a thousand invitations on my desk from all over America asking me to come to meetings to stir preachers and churches and Christians to evangelism, church building, etc. The Holy Spirit began to speak to my heart. Suddenly I began to weep uncontrollably for my nation. 

I went upstairs at about a quarter of midnight on September 24, 1966, and awakened my son, Dave, who was 12 years old at the time. I asked him to come to the basement which he did. He said, "What's wrong, Dad?" 

I said, "Doc, God has broken my heart tonight for my country." I showed him the letters. I reminded him that somebody needed to stir churches and Christians and preachers across the nation. I reminded him that unless something miraculous happened, he and his three sisters would not have a free country, and that someday he might even be killed for preaching the way his dad preaches. He said, "Dad, what does it mean if you decide to go and take these invitations on a regular basis?" 

I said, "Doc, it probably means that you and I have been fishing for our last time. It may mean that we have been to our last ball game together." Then I said, "Doc, what do you think I ought to do?" 

He looked at me through tears and said, "Dad, I think you ought to go," and Dave and I both fell to our knees and he began to pray aloud without my even asking him to do so, and this is what he prayed: 

"Dear Lord, tonight I give You my dad." Now there is nothing wrong with having a dad, but for at least one young man in America, having a dad at home with him all the time was a weight. Somebody had to go and stir preachers to build great churches that somehow America might be spared.
Now everyone can stop guessing  :D

So it was abusive emotional manipulation of a 12 year old boy. Got it.
 
TidesofTruth said:
Jack Hyles Speaks On Biblical Separation, Chapter 8

On September 24, 1966, I was spending my last day in my thirties. I decided to stay awake until midnight so I could be conscious through the last minute of my thirties. I went to the basement of our home, and there God broke my heart for my country. On my desk at the time were letters opening every door to me that a fundamental preacher could imagine entering. Two different colleges were offering me their presidency. One seminary asked me to become its president. Twenty-two letters were there from ministerial groups in large cities asking me to come and preach city-wide revival campaigns in coliseums and stadiums across America. Some of the largest cities in our nation were represented. None of that appealed to me. I did not feel that I was supposed to be a seminary or college president at the time, and I did not feel that I was to be a city-wide evangelist, but I had a thousand invitations on my desk from all over America asking me to come to meetings to stir preachers and churches and Christians to evangelism, church building, etc. The Holy Spirit began to speak to my heart. Suddenly I began to weep uncontrollably for my nation. 

I went upstairs at about a quarter of midnight on September 24, 1966, and awakened my son, Dave, who was 12 years old at the time. I asked him to come to the basement which he did. He said, "What's wrong, Dad?" 

I said, "Doc, God has broken my heart tonight for my country." I showed him the letters. I reminded him that somebody needed to stir churches and Christians and preachers across the nation. I reminded him that unless something miraculous happened, he and his three sisters would not have a free country, and that someday he might even be killed for preaching the way his dad preaches. He said, "Dad, what does it mean if you decide to go and take these invitations on a regular basis?" 

I said, "Doc, it probably means that you and I have been fishing for our last time. It may mean that we have been to our last ball game together." Then I said, "Doc, what do you think I ought to do?" 

He looked at me through tears and said, "Dad, I think you ought to go," and Dave and I both fell to our knees and he began to pray aloud without my even asking him to do so, and this is what he prayed: 

"Dear Lord, tonight I give You my dad." Now there is nothing wrong with having a dad, but for at least one young man in America, having a dad at home with him all the time was a weight. Somebody had to go and stir preachers to build great churches that somehow America might be spared.
Now everyone can stop guessing  :D

He did and what a price he paid.  I wonder how many preachers have guarded time with their families because of this decision made by Jack Hyles?
 
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