Jack Hyles Legacy

[Teri in NC]

I agree completely. I would rather reach my children for the cause of Christ than a churches full of people. Jack Hyles' mistakes in this area are not his alone. Check Billy Sunday. Check D. L. Moody. Check A. W. Tozer. Check any number of men in Christian history who were so busy in ministry they were bad fathers.

To me, it wouldn't be worth it. But any accurate measurement of their life must include both the positive and the negative.

<somebody needs to write a biography of Jack Hyles that actually does that>

I agree, Tom. I enjoyed reading Bob Gray's book about Dr. Hyles.  I enjoyed reading Cindy Schaap's biography of Dr. Hyles.  The problem, they have only covered the positives.  I wonder if Bob Gray only covers the "positives" of people's lives in his preaching. 

I would love to see a biography written about Jack Hyles from a balanced point of view.  Cover the positives (there are many) and don't skip over the scandals and the negative aspects.  The author would not have to go into details.

I'm not sure who could write a book such as this.  It would have to be someone who knew and loved Dr. Hyles, yet now see some problems.

It would be nice to read a balanced book about him.  The good, the bad, and the ugly so to speak....without details.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I know it sound ridiculous to say that 'strong standards, militant separation and soulwinning trumps adherence to moral, ethical and biblical standards'...but that is, in essence what some, many, most IFB true believers believe.

At, least that's how I, and others see it.

I have been an IFB for 45 years and I do not know anyone who would agree with what you have stated.  I'm not sure to whom you have been talking but to say that "most" IFB believe what you have said is crazy.  Seems to me that someone somewhere has disagreed with you on standards and you have lumped everyone into the same boat.

I have not heard a sermon against women wearing pants in over three decades - maybe longer.  I can't remember the exact last time I heard mentioned in a sermon about how sinful going to the movies is, but I would guess it was probably back when I was in junior high school chapel almost 40 years ago.    Mixed swimming?  Same - maybe summer camp as a teenager. 

Guess what?  I attend what many on this forum would call an IFBx church.  All these rants that supposedly IFBs get on and preach every single service I just don't see or hear.  Granted, I may doze here in there, but it's been a rare service I napped throughout the whole message.   

I do not know any IFBs who would agree that militant separation, standards, and soul winning trump moral, ethical, and biblical standards.  I just don't.

I both agree and disagree with these posts and would love for the conversation to continue in the "Standards" thread. 

While you may not have heard a whole sermon on the topic, the IFB Bible schools will punish, suspend and expel a student for such attire or attendance.  Illustrations are used and inferences are made from the pulpit.  Ministry leaders tell laypeople that they cannot be a part of the ministry unless they agree to never engage in certain behaviors, chief among which is women wearing pants.  I remember a staff meeting where we were instructed what our wives should wear in the home and even in the bedroom.  Ludicrous.  Some IFB summer camps this year won't even allow the boys to swim or go down water slides without a shirt and girls will wear culottes in the water.  If you really have missed all that, you got your ears plugged.

When leadership in the movement disregards moral impurity to allow for a talent to shine, it leads many to believe that this is the manner of the movement.  Jack Hyles was the worst at this.  Dave Hyles was not his only failure in this area.  Bob Olsen was known to have molested boys, yet he was made a high school teacher where he has now admitted to continuing his crimes (statute of limitations).  Some of Jack Hyles' cronies have followed suit.  Jack Trieber is an obvious name to call here.  Greg Neal is another that needs to be mentioned.  When preachers attend Greg Neal's conference, or have people like Chester Mulligan to preach for them, they are guilty of allowing  militant separation, standards, and soul winning to trump moral, ethical, and biblical standards.  Think about this, and I bet you do know some IFB who have done this.

 

[prophet]

So than, do you agree with this...

"To have the respect of those closest to you seems a far better legacy than to have the respect of thousands who know you from afar."

I don't believe Linda has respect for him.  I believe the others do.

This is a true statement.



Earnestly Contend

 

[prophet]

I would not say Mrs. Hyles has rejected everything.  She often references and/or quotes her husband in her weekly blog.  Yes, I know, she probably has a ghost writer sometimes, but I do not believe any blog post would be published without her first reading and agreeing to it. 

One of her greatest concerns during the JS situation was that Dr. Hyles's legacy may be trampled and forgotten.

 

This is pretty much reality.

I think many people that aren't around them at all, have fallen prey to gossip.

Mrs. Hyles did absolutely not in any way do anything to slight her husband.

She simply went back home.

I've personally heard her say the same things for 30+ years now, she holds her husband in reverence.

Jack Hyles wasn't against the SBC, he was against being ostracized by them.

He was a Southern Baptist.  Period.

So he was "independent" for the last half of his ministry.
It is like The Anglican Church....that separated from Rome over a fallout, and not over doctrine.

He used Scofield's Reference, John R.Rice's Sword, Roloff, Roberson, etc. He taught Pre-Trib/Pre-Mil which was just recently popularized by the S.B.C., when he was in Seminary.

To say that Mrs. Hyles was going against his wishes, etc., to return home and go to her church, would just be an admission that you don't really know them.
She was once the darling "first lady" of the convention.  No doubt she is still highly regarded in that part of Texas.

Listening to people try to read into her post-partem actions, will lead one to think much that is not true.



Earnestly Contend

 

[Norefund]

I hope none of my children demonstrate respect for me the way Dave demonstrated his respect for Jack Hyles (shudder).

So than, do you agree with this...

"To have the respect of those closest to you seems a far better legacy than to have the respect of thousands who know you from afar."

I don't believe Linda has respect for him.  I believe the others do.

This is a true statement.



Earnestly Contend

 

[Bruh]

I would not say Mrs. Hyles has rejected everything.  She often references and/or quotes her husband in her weekly blog.  Yes, I know, she probably has a ghost writer sometimes, but I do not believe any blog post would be published without her first reading and agreeing to it. 

One of her greatest concerns during the JS situation was that Dr. Hyles's legacy may be trampled and forgotten.

 

This is pretty much reality.

I think many people that aren't around them at all, have fallen prey to gossip.

Mrs. Hyles did absolutely not in any way do anything to slight her husband.

She simply went back home.

I've personally heard her say the same things for 30+ years now, she holds her husband in reverence.

Jack Hyles wasn't against the SBC, he was against being ostracized by them.

He was a Southern Baptist.  Period.

So he was "independent" for the last half of his ministry.
It is like The Anglican Church....that separated from Rome over a fallout, and not over doctrine.

He used Scofield's Reference, John R.Rice's Sword, Roloff, Roberson, etc. He taught Pre-Trib/Pre-Mil which was just recently popularized by the S.B.C., when he was in Seminary.

To say that Mrs. Hyles was going against his wishes, etc., to return home and go to her church, would just be an admission that you don't really know them.
She was once the darling "first lady" of the convention.  No doubt she is still highly regarded in that part of Texas.

Listening to people try to read into her post-partem actions, will lead one to think much that is not true.



Earnestly Contend

There is so much wrong in this post I don't have the time to respond to all of it.

Earnestly Contend  8)

 

[prophet]

I would not say Mrs. Hyles has rejected everything.  She often references and/or quotes her husband in her weekly blog.  Yes, I know, she probably has a ghost writer sometimes, but I do not believe any blog post would be published without her first reading and agreeing to it. 

One of her greatest concerns during the JS situation was that Dr. Hyles's legacy may be trampled and forgotten.

 

This is pretty much reality.

I think many people that aren't around them at all, have fallen prey to gossip.

Mrs. Hyles did absolutely not in any way do anything to slight her husband.

She simply went back home.

I've personally heard her say the same things for 30+ years now, she holds her husband in reverence.

Jack Hyles wasn't against the SBC, he was against being ostracized by them.

He was a Southern Baptist.  Period.

So he was "independent" for the last half of his ministry.
It is like The Anglican Church....that separated from Rome over a fallout, and not over doctrine.

He used Scofield's Reference, John R.Rice's Sword, Roloff, Roberson, etc. He taught Pre-Trib/Pre-Mil which was just recently popularized by the S.B.C., when he was in Seminary.

To say that Mrs. Hyles was going against his wishes, etc., to return home and go to her church, would just be an admission that you don't really know them.
She was once the darling "first lady" of the convention.  No doubt she is still highly regarded in that part of Texas.

Listening to people try to read into her post-partem actions, will lead one to think much that is not true.



Earnestly Contend

There is so much wrong in this post I don't have the time to respond to all of it.

Earnestly Contend  8)

You really don't know as much as you think you do, about JH.
Neither do a lot of people, but it never stops them from talking.

Earnestly Contend

 

[Bruh]

I would not say Mrs. Hyles has rejected everything.  She often references and/or quotes her husband in her weekly blog.  Yes, I know, she probably has a ghost writer sometimes, but I do not believe any blog post would be published without her first reading and agreeing to it. 

One of her greatest concerns during the JS situation was that Dr. Hyles's legacy may be trampled and forgotten.

 

This is pretty much reality.

I think many people that aren't around them at all, have fallen prey to gossip.

Mrs. Hyles did absolutely not in any way do anything to slight her husband.

She simply went back home.

I've personally heard her say the same things for 30+ years now, she holds her husband in reverence.

Jack Hyles wasn't against the SBC, he was against being ostracized by them.

He was a Southern Baptist.  Period.

So he was "independent" for the last half of his ministry.
It is like The Anglican Church....that separated from Rome over a fallout, and not over doctrine.

He used Scofield's Reference, John R.Rice's Sword, Roloff, Roberson, etc. He taught Pre-Trib/Pre-Mil which was just recently popularized by the S.B.C., when he was in Seminary.

To say that Mrs. Hyles was going against his wishes, etc., to return home and go to her church, would just be an admission that you don't really know them.
She was once the darling "first lady" of the convention.  No doubt she is still highly regarded in that part of Texas.

Listening to people try to read into her post-partem actions, will lead one to think much that is not true.



Earnestly Contend

There is so much wrong in this post I don't have the time to respond to all of it.

Earnestly Contend  8)

You really don't know as much as you think you do, about JH.
Neither do a lot of people, but it never stops them from talking.

Earnestly Contend

Boy, Raiders gonna loooove you.

 

[prophet]

I hope none of my children demonstrate respect for me the way Dave demonstrated his respect for Jack Hyles (shudder).

So than, do you agree with this...

"To have the respect of those closest to you seems a far better legacy than to have the respect of thousands who know you from afar."

I don't believe Linda has respect for him.  I believe the others do.

This is a true statement.



Earnestly Contend

Dave didn't consider the effects that his actions would have on anyone, his Dad included, so that isn't a proper scale with which to weigh his respect.

He has never come out and criticized his Dad publicly.  In fact, quite the opposite, he speaks highly of him.

That's what makes us scratch our heads at why he continues to insert himself at all in anything IFB.  Since one would think that he would be keenly aware of how his mere presence tarnishes the very legacy which he takes advantage of to this day.

No one is making the assertion that Dave didn't cause shame to his father's name, but no one has heard Dave disrespect him, either.

Earnestly Contend

 

[Bruh]

I hope none of my children demonstrate respect for me the way Dave demonstrated his respect for Jack Hyles (shudder).

So than, do you agree with this...

"To have the respect of those closest to you seems a far better legacy than to have the respect of thousands who know you from afar."

I don't believe Linda has respect for him.  I believe the others do.

This is a true statement.



Earnestly Contend

Dave didn't consider the effects that his actions would have on anyone, his Dad included, so that isn't a proper scale with which to weigh his respect.

He has never come out and criticized his Dad publicly.  In fact, quite the opposite, he speaks highly of him.

That's what makes us scratch our heads at why he continues to insert himself at all in anything IFB.  Since one would think that he would be keenly aware of how his mere presence tarnishes the very legacy which he takes advantage of to this day.

No one is making the assertion that Dave didn't cause shame to his father's name, but no one has heard Dave disrespect him, either.

Earnestly Contend

Raiders gonna loooove you.

 

[prophet]

I hope none of my children demonstrate respect for me the way Dave demonstrated his respect for Jack Hyles (shudder).

So than, do you agree with this...

"To have the respect of those closest to you seems a far better legacy than to have the respect of thousands who know you from afar."

I don't believe Linda has respect for him.  I believe the others do.

This is a true statement.



Earnestly Contend

Dave didn't consider the effects that his actions would have on anyone, his Dad included, so that isn't a proper scale with which to weigh his respect.

He has never come out and criticized his Dad publicly.  In fact, quite the opposite, he speaks highly of him.

That's what makes us scratch our heads at why he continues to insert himself at all in anything IFB.  Since one would think that he would be keenly aware of how his mere presence tarnishes the very legacy which he takes advantage of to this day.

No one is making the assertion that Dave didn't cause shame to his father's name, but no one has heard Dave disrespect him, either.

Earnestly Contend

Raiders gonna loooove you.

No he won't, cuz all I'm doing is setting the record straight, and he doesn't like it when it steps on his toes.

Earnestly Contend

 

[Bruh]

I would not say Mrs. Hyles has rejected everything.  She often references and/or quotes her husband in her weekly blog.  Yes, I know, she probably has a ghost writer sometimes, but I do not believe any blog post would be published without her first reading and agreeing to it. 

One of her greatest concerns during the JS situation was that Dr. Hyles's legacy may be trampled and forgotten.

 

This is pretty much reality.

I think many people that aren't around them at all, have fallen prey to gossip.

Mrs. Hyles did absolutely not in any way do anything to slight her husband.

She simply went back home.

I've personally heard her say the same things for 30+ years now, she holds her husband in reverence.

Jack Hyles wasn't against the SBC, he was against being ostracized by them.

He was a Southern Baptist.  Period.

So he was "independent" for the last half of his ministry.
It is like The Anglican Church....that separated from Rome over a fallout, and not over doctrine.

He used Scofield's Reference, John R.Rice's Sword, Roloff, Roberson, etc. He taught Pre-Trib/Pre-Mil which was just recently popularized by the S.B.C., when he was in Seminary.

To say that Mrs. Hyles was going against his wishes, etc., to return home and go to her church, would just be an admission that you don't really know them.
She was once the darling "first lady" of the convention.  No doubt she is still highly regarded in that part of Texas.

Listening to people try to read into her post-partem actions, will lead one to think much that is not true.



Earnestly Contend

You do know that the church she is a member of is NOT KJVO, right?

Are you telling us that Mrs. Hyles doesn't know the disdain that her husband had for other "PERVERSIONS " , his term.

And many other things.

I sure don't claim to have known him as his wife and kids and neither should you.

You knew him at church like many many many others did. At church from afar not inside his home.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

BRUH,

Some of us knew JH much more than just at church, in the office or in the pulpit.  What prophet is trying to say is that JH was not really who he claimed to be.  He did vehemently, loudly and frequently speak against the SBC.  JH even went so far as to call the SBC idolatrous churches who worship the Board of Directors more than God and are thereby all false churches.  However, he was personally hurt by the SBC and many believe his frustration with the SBC was really just that they kicked him out of the organization for the second half of his life.  JH spoke against new versions, but used them and even sold them at FBCH up until his son was caught messing around and JH needed a diversion.

Your'e both right.

 

[RAIDER]

I would not say Mrs. Hyles has rejected everything.  She often references and/or quotes her husband in her weekly blog.  Yes, I know, she probably has a ghost writer sometimes, but I do not believe any blog post would be published without her first reading and agreeing to it. 

One of her greatest concerns during the JS situation was that Dr. Hyles's legacy may be trampled and forgotten.

 

This is pretty much reality.

I think many people that aren't around them at all, have fallen prey to gossip.

Mrs. Hyles did absolutely not in any way do anything to slight her husband.

She simply went back home.

I've personally heard her say the same things for 30+ years now, she holds her husband in reverence.

Jack Hyles wasn't against the SBC, he was against being ostracized by them.

He was a Southern Baptist.  Period.

So he was "independent" for the last half of his ministry.
It is like The Anglican Church....that separated from Rome over a fallout, and not over doctrine.

He used Scofield's Reference, John R.Rice's Sword, Roloff, Roberson, etc. He taught Pre-Trib/Pre-Mil which was just recently popularized by the S.B.C., when he was in Seminary.

To say that Mrs. Hyles was going against his wishes, etc., to return home and go to her church, would just be an admission that you don't really know them.
She was once the darling "first lady" of the convention.  No doubt she is still highly regarded in that part of Texas.

Listening to people try to read into her post-partem actions, will lead one to think much that is not true.



Earnestly Contend

Well put!

 

[Bruh]

BRUH,

Some of us knew JH much more than just at church, in the office or in the pulpit.  What prophet is trying to say is that JH was not really who he claimed to be.  He did vehemently, loudly and frequently speak against the SBC.  JH even went so far as to call the SBC idolatrous churches who worship the Board of Directors more than God and are thereby all false churches.  However, he was personally hurt by the SBC and many believe his frustration with the SBC was really just that they kicked him out of the organization for the second half of his life.  JH spoke against new versions, but used them and even sold them at FBCH up until his son was caught messing around and JH needed a diversion.

Your'e both right.

So the disdain he showed at pastors school and other places was because his feelings where hurt and truthful he didn't really have issues with other translations so people like Raider and Tom me and others were sold a bill of goods?

Because ultimately JH is the one that brought that fight to the forfront in the IFB churches.

And now I know some wil say, no I've studied it for myself now and have been convinced from my studies that the KJVO position is very very accurate.

And if this is the case now there're saying that JH had no idea what he was talking about.


Look, I know men like you, BC and prophet knew JH much more personally than many others.

 

[RAIDER]

BRUH,

Some of us knew JH much more than just at church, in the office or in the pulpit.  What prophet is trying to say is that JH was not really who he claimed to be.  He did vehemently, loudly and frequently speak against the SBC.  JH even went so far as to call the SBC idolatrous churches who worship the Board of Directors more than God and are thereby all false churches.  However, he was personally hurt by the SBC and many believe his frustration with the SBC was really just that they kicked him out of the organization for the second half of his life.  JH spoke against new versions, but used them and even sold them at FBCH up until his son was caught messing around and JH needed a diversion.

Your'e both right.

So the disdain he showed at pastors school and other places was because his feelings where hurt and truthful he didn't really have issues with other translations so people like Raider and Tom me and others were sold a bill of goods?

Because ultimately JH is the one that brought that fight to the forfront in the IFB churches.

And now I know some wil say, no I've studied it for myself now and have been convinced from my studies that the KJVO position is very very accurate.

And if this is the case now there're saying that JH had no idea what he was talking about.


Look, I know men like you, BC and prophet knew JH much more personally than many others.

I would say that the last several years of his ministry he was KJVO because that is what he truly believed.  I don't think it had anything to do with getting his "feelings hurt".  He spent time researching the issue with men like Roland Rasmussen and changed his previous view.

 

[Bruh]

BRUH,

Some of us knew JH much more than just at church, in the office or in the pulpit.  What prophet is trying to say is that JH was not really who he claimed to be.  He did vehemently, loudly and frequently speak against the SBC.  JH even went so far as to call the SBC idolatrous churches who worship the Board of Directors more than God and are thereby all false churches.  However, he was personally hurt by the SBC and many believe his frustration with the SBC was really just that they kicked him out of the organization for the second half of his life.  JH spoke against new versions, but used them and even sold them at FBCH up until his son was caught messing around and JH needed a diversion.

Your'e both right.

So the disdain he showed at pastors school and other places was because his feelings where hurt and truthful he didn't really have issues with other translations so people like Raider and Tom me and others were sold a bill of goods?

Because ultimately JH is the one that brought that fight to the forfront in the IFB churches.

And now I know some wil say, no I've studied it for myself now and have been convinced from my studies that the KJVO position is very very accurate.

And if this is the case now there're saying that JH had no idea what he was talking about.


Look, I know men like you, BC and prophet knew JH much more personally than many others.

I would say that the last several years of his ministry he was KJVO because that is what he truly believed.  I don't think it had anything to do with getting his "feelings hurt".  He spent time researching the issue with men like Roland Rasmussen and changed his previous view.

Ok, I respect what you're saying but than men like Binaca Chugger and Prophet that actually knew him from birth and grew up literally in the system there are wrong and Mrs. Hyles is actually spitting in the face of her husband when it comes to the KJVO issue because we all know how he felt about this.

 

[RAIDER]

Ok, I respect what you're saying but than men like Binaca Chugger and Prophet that actually knew him from birth and grew up literally in the system there are wrong and Mrs. Hyles is actually spitting in the face of her husband when it comes to the KJVO issue because we all know how he felt about this.

I don't know what Bible version Mrs. Hyles uses.  She still speaks at IFB ladies meetings.  She left FBCH to move to Texas to be with her daughter.  I think she also left to allow Cindy to be the pastor's wife of FBCH.  No, that did not work out well.  I don't know what Mrs. Hyles believed about the KJV while Dr. Hyles was KJVO.  Did she hold onto her previous beliefs and stayed quiet to honor her husband?  I do look at her attending a SBC as strange, but I do not look at it as disrespecting Dr. Hyles.  Perhaps that is where her daughter attended church and she started going with her.   

 

[Binaca Chugger]

BRUH,

Some of us knew JH much more than just at church, in the office or in the pulpit.  What prophet is trying to say is that JH was not really who he claimed to be.  He did vehemently, loudly and frequently speak against the SBC.  JH even went so far as to call the SBC idolatrous churches who worship the Board of Directors more than God and are thereby all false churches.  However, he was personally hurt by the SBC and many believe his frustration with the SBC was really just that they kicked him out of the organization for the second half of his life.  JH spoke against new versions, but used them and even sold them at FBCH up until his son was caught messing around and JH needed a diversion.

Your'e both right.

So the disdain he showed at pastors school and other places was because his feelings where hurt and truthful he didn't really have issues with other translations so people like Raider and Tom me and others were sold a bill of goods?

Because ultimately JH is the one that brought that fight to the forfront in the IFB churches.

And now I know some wil say, no I've studied it for myself now and have been convinced from my studies that the KJVO position is very very accurate.

And if this is the case now there're saying that JH had no idea what he was talking about.


Look, I know men like you, BC and prophet knew JH much more personally than many others.

I would say that the last several years of his ministry he was KJVO because that is what he truly believed.  I don't think it had anything to do with getting his "feelings hurt".  He spent time researching the issue with men like Roland Rasmussen and changed his previous view.

SBC was "feelings hurt."  Go back and listen to how he talked about that event.  It destroyed him.  Every friend he had ever had abandoned him.  I know the feeling.  It hurts.  JH responded with vehement attacks to prove he was right.  Of course, with the liberalism creeping into the SBC, it was pretty easy.  His emotion combined with his position dictated his response.

On the Bible issue, I believe he needed a diversion and saw one with the KJVO position.  New translations were growing increasingly poor.  Some of the translations were just bad.  I think he researched it enough to know if he could really promote this idea and use it as a diversion to rally the troops against something.  He quickly found himself making some preposterous statements (can't be saved unless through the KJV) and began to backtrack on the position.

 

[Bruh]

Ok, I respect what you're saying but than men like Binaca Chugger and Prophet that actually knew him from birth and grew up literally in the system there are wrong and Mrs. Hyles is actually spitting in the face of her husband when it comes to the KJVO issue because we all know how he felt about this.

I don't know what Bible version Mrs. Hyles uses.  She still speaks at IFB ladies meetings.  She left FBCH to move to Texas to be with her daughter.  I think she also left to allow Cindy to be the pastor's wife of FBCH.  No, that did not work out well.  I don't know what Mrs. Hyles believed about the KJV while Dr. Hyles was KJVO.  Did she hold onto her previous beliefs and stayed quiet to honor her husband?  I do look at her attending a SBC as strange, but I do not look at it as disrespecting Dr. Hyles.  Perhaps that is where her daughter attended church and she started going with her. 

Raider, let's not mince words here, I'm not talking about what she uses I'm talking about what her church as a whole uses.
And by what you're saying JH was KJVO and his wife wasn't.

And FTR, I have no issue with her going to a SBC church.