Jack Hyles Legacy

[Bruh]

?

I'm explaining all this to my wife. My wife and her family was a member of a IFB church her entire life. She didn't know who JH was till she married me.

So I'm explaining this conversation to her, she says, my answer is, who cares?  LOL!

I told her this is, shop talk.

 

[Norefund]

Smart wife.

?

I'm explaining all this to my wife. My wife and her family was a member of a IFB church her entire life. She didn't know who JH was till she married me.

So I'm explaining this conversation to her, she says, my answer is, who cares?  LOL!

I told her this is, shop talk.

 

[Bruh]

Smart wife.

?

I'm explaining all this to my wife. My wife and her family was a member of a IFB church her entire life. She didn't know who JH was till she married me.

So I'm explaining this conversation to her, she says, my answer is, who cares?  LOL!

I told her this is, shop talk.

I'll tell you like I told my wife, we've got to get to the bottom of this.

 

[IFB X-Files]

I'll tell you like I told my wife, we've got to get to the bottom of this.

Oh, I think we're already at the bottom.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Ok, I respect what you're saying but than men like Binaca Chugger and Prophet that actually knew him from birth and grew up literally in the system there are wrong and Mrs. Hyles is actually spitting in the face of her husband when it comes to the KJVO issue because we all know how he felt about this.

I don't know what Bible version Mrs. Hyles uses.  She still speaks at IFB ladies meetings.  She left FBCH to move to Texas to be with her daughter.  I think she also left to allow Cindy to be the pastor's wife of FBCH.  No, that did not work out well.  I don't know what Mrs. Hyles believed about the KJV while Dr. Hyles was KJVO.  Did she hold onto her previous beliefs and stayed quiet to honor her husband?  I do look at her attending a SBC as strange, but I do not look at it as disrespecting Dr. Hyles.  Perhaps that is where her daughter attended church and she started going with her. 

I don't see how it can be viewed any way other than a back-handed rebuke of Dr Hyles. She KNEW what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed...yet she purposely joined a church that was polar opposite of what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed.

I don't see how it can be viewed any other way than a calculated move....unless there are NO IFB churches of the Hyles camp anywhere near her.

 

[prophet]

BRUH,

Some of us knew JH much more than just at church, in the office or in the pulpit.  What prophet is trying to say is that JH was not really who he claimed to be.  He did vehemently, loudly and frequently speak against the SBC.  JH even went so far as to call the SBC idolatrous churches who worship the Board of Directors more than God and are thereby all false churches.  However, he was personally hurt by the SBC and many believe his frustration with the SBC was really just that they kicked him out of the organization for the second half of his life.  JH spoke against new versions, but used them and even sold them at FBCH up until his son was caught messing around and JH needed a diversion.

Your'e both right.

So the disdain he showed at pastors school and other places was because his feelings where hurt and truthful he didn't really have issues with other translations so people like Raider and Tom me and others were sold a bill of goods?

Because ultimately JH is the one that brought that fight to the forfront in the IFB churches.

And now I know some wil say, no I've studied it for myself now and have been convinced from my studies that the KJVO position is very very accurate.

And if this is the case now there're saying that JH had no idea what he was talking about.


Look, I know men like you, BC and prophet knew JH much more personally than many others.

I would say that the last several years of his ministry he was KJVO because that is what he truly believed.  I don't think it had anything to do with getting his "feelings hurt".  He spent time researching the issue with men like Roland Rasmussen and changed his previous view.

Ok, I respect what you're saying but than men like Binaca Chugger and Prophet that actually knew him from birth and grew up literally in the system there are wrong and Mrs. Hyles is actually spitting in the face of her husband when it comes to the KJVO issue because we all know how he felt about this.

For the first 60 years of her life, the KJV issue was never brought up.

Then, the last 14 years, she hears her husband take a position, back off of it, then restate it in his last year.

Do you really think she cared about all that?
Do you understand wives?
She probably want even listening, when he went into a subject very deeply, as most ladies in her position would do.

Explain some technical aspect of your work to your wife.
5 years later, bring it up.
She won't remember, and won't feel guilty one bit.

Mrs. Hyles is going to what her husband led her to for the first 40 years of their marriage, and probably what she thinks that he would still enjoy, were he around.

Jack Hyles yelled alot, in his sermons, but he wasn't at all militant.

For instance, he and Falwell spoke weekly.

Earnestly Contend

 

[Bruh]

Ok, I respect what you're saying but than men like Binaca Chugger and Prophet that actually knew him from birth and grew up literally in the system there are wrong and Mrs. Hyles is actually spitting in the face of her husband when it comes to the KJVO issue because we all know how he felt about this.

I don't know what Bible version Mrs. Hyles uses.  She still speaks at IFB ladies meetings.  She left FBCH to move to Texas to be with her daughter.  I think she also left to allow Cindy to be the pastor's wife of FBCH.  No, that did not work out well.  I don't know what Mrs. Hyles believed about the KJV while Dr. Hyles was KJVO.  Did she hold onto her previous beliefs and stayed quiet to honor her husband?  I do look at her attending a SBC as strange, but I do not look at it as disrespecting Dr. Hyles.  Perhaps that is where her daughter attended church and she started going with her. 

I don't see how it can be viewed any way other than a back-handed rebuke of Dr Hyles. She KNEW what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed...yet she purposely joined a church that was polar opposite of what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed.

I don't see how it can be viewed any other way than a calculated move....unless there are NO IFB churches of the Hyles camp anywhere near her.

Exactly!

The women wear pants (JH words, they know why they wear pants) have southern baptist music, go to the movies, aren't KJVO, have boards how is this not a slap in the face? Surely she has to know her husband is turning over in his grave.

If not, than everything he so say stood for, is a farce and did it all because his feelings were hurt.

 

[prophet]

Ok, I respect what you're saying but than men like Binaca Chugger and Prophet that actually knew him from birth and grew up literally in the system there are wrong and Mrs. Hyles is actually spitting in the face of her husband when it comes to the KJVO issue because we all know how he felt about this.

I don't know what Bible version Mrs. Hyles uses.  She still speaks at IFB ladies meetings.  She left FBCH to move to Texas to be with her daughter.  I think she also left to allow Cindy to be the pastor's wife of FBCH.  No, that did not work out well.  I don't know what Mrs. Hyles believed about the KJV while Dr. Hyles was KJVO.  Did she hold onto her previous beliefs and stayed quiet to honor her husband?  I do look at her attending a SBC as strange, but I do not look at it as disrespecting Dr. Hyles.  Perhaps that is where her daughter attended church and she started going with her. 

I don't see how it can be viewed any way other than a back-handed rebuke of Dr Hyles. She KNEW what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed...yet she purposely joined a church that was polar opposite of what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed.

I don't see how it can be viewed any other way than a calculated move....unless there are NO IFB churches of the Hyles camp anywhere near her.

Because you didn't know him.

He changed what he "believed" on a regular basis, like most effeminate men do.  He could never have a Father's approval, so he viewed the SBC's rejection of their over-achieving #1 son, as a 2nd Father's rejection of him.
If you know that, you know he really only wanted to headline their convention conferences once again, to be the voice of influence, to help guide the Convention.

We who know him can't explain this to those of you who don't.

You've never seen him in tears because people he cares about won't accept him, we have.

You heard bluster at the pulpit, but his wife saw him on the phone with, visiting, even preaching with/for people who you would've thought he disliked.

I can assure you that Mrs. Hyles in no way feels she's slighting the man, nor would he have objected to her going back home.  Really.

Earnestly Contend

 

[bgwilkinson]

Ok, I respect what you're saying but than men like Binaca Chugger and Prophet that actually knew him from birth and grew up literally in the system there are wrong and Mrs. Hyles is actually spitting in the face of her husband when it comes to the KJVO issue because we all know how he felt about this.

I don't know what Bible version Mrs. Hyles uses.  She still speaks at IFB ladies meetings.  She left FBCH to move to Texas to be with her daughter.  I think she also left to allow Cindy to be the pastor's wife of FBCH.  No, that did not work out well.  I don't know what Mrs. Hyles believed about the KJV while Dr. Hyles was KJVO.  Did she hold onto her previous beliefs and stayed quiet to honor her husband?  I do look at her attending a SBC as strange, but I do not look at it as disrespecting Dr. Hyles.  Perhaps that is where her daughter attended church and she started going with her. 

I don't see how it can be viewed any way other than a back-handed rebuke of Dr Hyles. She KNEW what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed...yet she purposely joined a church that was polar opposite of what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed.

I don't see how it can be viewed any other way than a calculated move....unless there are NO IFB churches of the Hyles camp anywhere near her.

She could go to Open Door if that were true.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Ok, I respect what you're saying but than men like Binaca Chugger and Prophet that actually knew him from birth and grew up literally in the system there are wrong and Mrs. Hyles is actually spitting in the face of her husband when it comes to the KJVO issue because we all know how he felt about this.

I don't know what Bible version Mrs. Hyles uses.  She still speaks at IFB ladies meetings.  She left FBCH to move to Texas to be with her daughter.  I think she also left to allow Cindy to be the pastor's wife of FBCH.  No, that did not work out well.  I don't know what Mrs. Hyles believed about the KJV while Dr. Hyles was KJVO.  Did she hold onto her previous beliefs and stayed quiet to honor her husband?  I do look at her attending a SBC as strange, but I do not look at it as disrespecting Dr. Hyles.  Perhaps that is where her daughter attended church and she started going with her. 

I don't see how it can be viewed any way other than a back-handed rebuke of Dr Hyles. She KNEW what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed...yet she purposely joined a church that was polar opposite of what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed.

I don't see how it can be viewed any other way than a calculated move....unless there are NO IFB churches of the Hyles camp anywhere near her.

Because you didn't know him.

He changed what he "believed" on a regular basis, like most effeminate men do.  He could never have a Father's approval, so he viewed the SBC's rejection of their over-achieving #1 son, as a 2nd Father's rejection of him.
If you know that, you know he really only wanted to headline their convention conferences once again, to be the voice of influence, to help guide the Convention.

We who know him can't explain this to those of you who don't.

You've never seen him in tears because people he cares about won't accept him, we have.

You heard bluster at the pulpit, but his wife saw him on the phone with, visiting, even preaching with/for people who you would've thought he disliked.

I can assure you that Mrs. Hyles in no way feels she's slighting the man, nor would he have objected to her going back home.  Really.

Earnestly Contend

Oh pleaseeeeeeeee!

Dr Hyles preached against, campaigned against, railed against and ridiculed SBC's...non KJVO's!
His wife KNEW that!
His wife is practicing the opposite of what he preached,practiced and ridiculed...fully knowing all of that.

And no amount of double talk is going to explain that away....unless you mean to say that Dr Hyles was a lying, deceiving, manipulative hypocrite and didn't mean anything he said.
(And, FTR, I DO NOT believe that about him, at all!)

 

[prophet]

Ok, I respect what you're saying but than men like Binaca Chugger and Prophet that actually knew him from birth and grew up literally in the system there are wrong and Mrs. Hyles is actually spitting in the face of her husband when it comes to the KJVO issue because we all know how he felt about this.

I don't know what Bible version Mrs. Hyles uses.  She still speaks at IFB ladies meetings.  She left FBCH to move to Texas to be with her daughter.  I think she also left to allow Cindy to be the pastor's wife of FBCH.  No, that did not work out well.  I don't know what Mrs. Hyles believed about the KJV while Dr. Hyles was KJVO.  Did she hold onto her previous beliefs and stayed quiet to honor her husband?  I do look at her attending a SBC as strange, but I do not look at it as disrespecting Dr. Hyles.  Perhaps that is where her daughter attended church and she started going with her. 

I don't see how it can be viewed any way other than a back-handed rebuke of Dr Hyles. She KNEW what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed...yet she purposely joined a church that was polar opposite of what he preached, taught and publicly ridiculed.

I don't see how it can be viewed any other way than a calculated move....unless there are NO IFB churches of the Hyles camp anywhere near her.

Because you didn't know him.

He changed what he "believed" on a regular basis, like most effeminate men do.  He could never have a Father's approval, so he viewed the SBC's rejection of their over-achieving #1 son, as a 2nd Father's rejection of him.
If you know that, you know he really only wanted to headline their convention conferences once again, to be the voice of influence, to help guide the Convention.

We who know him can't explain this to those of you who don't.

You've never seen him in tears because people he cares about won't accept him, we have.

You heard bluster at the pulpit, but his wife saw him on the phone with, visiting, even preaching with/for people who you would've thought he disliked.

I can assure you that Mrs. Hyles in no way feels she's slighting the man, nor would he have objected to her going back home.  Really.

Earnestly Contend

Oh pleaseeeeeeeee!

Dr Hyles preached against, campaigned against, railed against and ridiculed SBC's...non KJVO's!
His wife KNEW that!
His wife is practicing the opposite of what he preached,practiced and ridiculed...fully knowing all of that.

And no amount of double talk is going to explain that away....unless you mean to say that Dr Hyles was a lying, deceiving, manipulative hypocrite and didn't mean anything he said.
(And, FTR, I DO NOT believe that about him, at all!)

He changed what he believed, when the wind blew.

Call it what you will.

He was a very emotionally damaged man.

To the contrary, Mrs. Hyles was the opposite.

Jack Hyles never demanded of any one else, that they agree with him.
He always spoke from an opportunity to influence mindset.
What he said would seem to contraindicate, but his daily life behind the scenes went along with that publicized philosophy of his, that he had no right to demand of the next man what that he agree with him.

I've heard him preach sermons at home, in Hammond, where it was all too obvious that he was trying to get a point across, that he felt we weren't accepting.

His last year was spent trying to convince people who had separated from and attacked each other, that this was neither God's nor his intention.

He iterated this constantly at home.

Here is an example:

He said "lets quit sending our Baptist kids to non-Baptist schools".
Yet, he told my Sister to go to BJU, because she was taking Nursing.

To really know him, was to never feel that he was demanding anything from you.

In personal conversation, you would always be surprised at how he apparently did believe in individual soul liberty, had you been previously persuaded of the opposite.

Earnestly Contend

 

[Bruh]

Well, we've all learned a lot today.

JH wasn't KJVO, didn't think it was sinful wicked and a woman was a whore if she wore pants, thought CCM was ok, there was absolutely nothing wrong with going to the movie house and supporting Hollywood.

Interesting, can't wait to fill my mom in on all this, she won't believe it.

 

[prophet]

Well, we've all learned a lot today.

JH wasn't KJVO, didn't think it was sinful wicked and a woman was a whore if she wore pants, thought CCM was ok, there was absolutely nothing wrong with going to the movie house and supporting Hollywood.

Interesting, can't wait to fill my mom in on all this, she won't believe it.

Jack Hyles liked the CCM that was popular in his 30's and 40's.

He didn't like the Beatles, cuz they were anti-establishment.

He loved Southern Gospel.

He wasn't really musically inclined, so to take him serious on music, was a stretch.

Earnestly Contend

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Much has been said on this thread, but aside from the rhetoric, in reality, some, many, most IFB true believers prefer a strong, militant stand on separation and standards to an above reproach personal and moral life when it comes to claiming their hero's.

 

[Fresh Air]

Much has been said on this thread, but aside from the rhetoric, in reality, some, many, most IFB true believers prefer a strong, militant stand on separation and standards to an above reproach personal and moral life when it comes to claiming their hero's.

By that standard you ought to be claiming Mother Teresa...

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Much has been said on this thread, but aside from the rhetoric, in reality, some, many, most IFB true believers prefer a strong, militant stand on separation and standards to an above reproach personal and moral life when it comes to claiming their hero's.

By that standard you ought to be claiming Mother Teresa...

I think the point you try to make is that, Falwell for instance, wasn't sound doctrinally. That is untrue, unless you consider his lack of militant separation and standards doctrine. Do you consider militant standards and separation as doctrine...equal to practicing biblical, morality in one's personal and ministry life?

 

[Fresh Air]

I think the point you try to make is that, Falwell for instance, wasn't sound doctrinally. That is untrue, unless you consider his lack of militant separation and standards doctrine. Do you consider militant standards and separation as doctrine...equal to practicing biblical, morality in one's personal and ministry life?

Falwell was orthodox, but he wasn't a fundamentalist. I am one for what I think are very good reasons. As I've said a thousand times I commend him for preaching the Gospel and living a life of integrity. But in this thread you have set a straw man skewed to your purposes and then torn him apart with sound and fury.

It isn't a choice between a mindless man-worship of an evil Jack Hyles because he believed women shouldn't wear pants vs a spotless Jerry Falwell who lived and died above reproach but was reasonable in his interactions with the world. Jerry Falwell made a host of absolutely rotten decisions when it comes to associations and emphases. Yes, that means something. Separation from the world and the purity of the local church is huge emphasis on the NT. I am an independent fundamental Baptist b/c each of those three words stands for important biblical doctrine. Falwell started off with all three and ended with just the last one and that one barely. Along the way he took off on a thousand political tangents, swallowed the contemporary Christian music nonsense, and made compromise a core value. And this is just off the top of my head. I guarantee you I could come up with a much more substantial list if I took some time at it.

No, I'm not going to say that Jerry Falwell is my hero. It would be completely contradictory for me to do so. 

...but that's ok. Keep holding up the worst image of JH and comparing him to the best image of JF. It seems to make you feel better.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I think the point you try to make is that, Falwell for instance, wasn't sound doctrinally. That is untrue, unless you consider his lack of militant separation and standards doctrine. Do you consider militant standards and separation as doctrine...equal to practicing biblical, morality in one's personal and ministry life?

Falwell was orthodox, but he wasn't a fundamentalist. I am one for what I think are very good reasons. As I've said a thousand times I commend him for preaching the Gospel and living a life of integrity. But in this thread you have set a straw man skewed to your purposes and then torn him apart with sound and fury.

It isn't a choice between a mindless man-worship of an evil Jack Hyles because he believed women shouldn't wear pants vs a spotless Jerry Falwell who lived and died above reproach but was reasonable in his interactions with the world. Jerry Falwell made a host of absolutely rotten decisions when it comes to associations and emphases. Yes, that means something. Separation from the world and the purity of the local church is huge emphasis on the NT. I am an independent fundamental Baptist b/c each of those three words stands for important biblical doctrine. Falwell started off with all three and ended with just the last one and that one barely. Along the way he took off on a thousand political tangents, swallowed the contemporary Christian music nonsense, and made compromise a core value. And this is just off the top of my head. I guarantee you I could come up with a much more substantial list if I took some time at it.

No, I'm not going to say that Jerry Falwell is my hero. It would be completely contradictory for me to do so. 

...but that's ok. Keep holding up the worst image of JH and comparing him to the best image of JF. It seems to make you feel better.

True dat.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I think the point you try to make is that, Falwell for instance, wasn't sound doctrinally. That is untrue, unless you consider his lack of militant separation and standards doctrine. Do you consider militant standards and separation as doctrine...equal to practicing biblical, morality in one's personal and ministry life?

Falwell was orthodox, but he wasn't a fundamentalist. I am one for what I think are very good reasons. As I've said a thousand times I commend him for preaching the Gospel and living a life of integrity. But in this thread you have set a straw man skewed to your purposes and then torn him apart with sound and fury.

It isn't a choice between a mindless man-worship of an evil Jack Hyles because he believed women shouldn't wear pants vs a spotless Jerry Falwell who lived and died above reproach but was reasonable in his interactions with the world. Jerry Falwell made a host of absolutely rotten decisions when it comes to associations and emphases. Yes, that means something. Separation from the world and the purity of the local church is huge emphasis on the NT. I am an independent fundamental Baptist b/c each of those three words stands for important biblical doctrine. Falwell started off with all three and ended with just the last one and that one barely. Along the way he took off on a thousand political tangents, swallowed the contemporary Christian music nonsense, and made compromise a core value. And this is just off the top of my head. I guarantee you I could come up with a much more substantial list if I took some time at it.

No, I'm not going to say that Jerry Falwell is my hero. It would be completely contradictory for me to do so. 

...but that's ok. Keep holding up the worst image of JH and comparing him to the best image of JF. It seems to make you feel better.

So truthfully, a militant stand on separation and standards is as important, maybe more important than orthodoxy and actually practicing the moral standards one preaches.

I reference what is said about Dr Hyles on the forum....by those who were there when much of the unseemly things happened. Without this forum, I would have had NO idea of just how deep and widespread the unseemly, shady and yes, immorality was in Hammond.

And I certainly am not proposing Dr Falwell for sainthood. In fact, among many of my peers at Liberty, I am castigated because I have often 'made waves' concerning the philosophy and policies there.

But, to compare Jerry's political activity, his wrong headed plunge into Heritage USA with the seedy, unseemly and immorality known and tolerated and sometimes enabled by Hyles is ludicrous.

And to say his music was contemporary is simply a statement of fact....not an indictment of heresy. Now IF compromise was Jerry's 'core value', I'm much too nice to offer what might have been Dr Hyles core value.

And I used the word hero because it is understood in the IFB culture, not because I consider either of those men to be a hero. I don't. But it cannot be argued but that Dr Hyles legacy is in tatters and those left with it are fighting to distance it from him...in an effort to salvage some semblance of it.

Now, IF I had to choose a role model between the 2 men, it's a no brainer to me.

 

[16KJV11]

I think the point you try to make is that, Falwell for instance, wasn't sound doctrinally. That is untrue, unless you consider his lack of militant separation and standards doctrine. Do you consider militant standards and separation as doctrine...equal to practicing biblical, morality in one's personal and ministry life?

Falwell was orthodox, but he wasn't a fundamentalist. I am one for what I think are very good reasons. As I've said a thousand times I commend him for preaching the Gospel and living a life of integrity. But in this thread you have set a straw man skewed to your purposes and then torn him apart with sound and fury.

It isn't a choice between a mindless man-worship of an evil Jack Hyles because he believed women shouldn't wear pants vs a spotless Jerry Falwell who lived and died above reproach but was reasonable in his interactions with the world. Jerry Falwell made a host of absolutely rotten decisions when it comes to associations and emphases. Yes, that means something. Separation from the world and the purity of the local church is huge emphasis on the NT. I am an independent fundamental Baptist b/c each of those three words stands for important biblical doctrine. Falwell started off with all three and ended with just the last one and that one barely. Along the way he took off on a thousand political tangents, swallowed the contemporary Christian music nonsense, and made compromise a core value. And this is just off the top of my head. I guarantee you I could come up with a much more substantial list if I took some time at it.

No, I'm not going to say that Jerry Falwell is my hero. It would be completely contradictory for me to do so. 

...but that's ok. Keep holding up the worst image of JH and comparing him to the best image of JF. It seems to make you feel better.

True dat.

True dat dat...