Real Time: Dealing with a pastor who is trying to start an illicit relationship

[aleshanee]

A local pastor has been using text messages to contact my married daughter. She told him to stop and her husband knows what is going on. His inappropriate contacts stopped a couple of months ago. However, last night, he is at it again... this time, through Instagram messages.
We are guiding her and my son-in-law in how to proceed. Pray for my son-in-law who is confronting this pastor.
This pastor is married, with teen aged kids and is currently preaching through a series on Marriage.
Our plan...
1) Kept all screenshots.
2) Told him straight up to stop contacting.
3) Getting the husband involved to confront this pastor.
4) If... it does not go well... I am fully connected with many pastors in this area who are his friends. We will get them involved.
Anyone go through this before? Any thoughts?

i am sure you are aware that people capable of doing what you have described, are also capable of violence.... and that it can occur without any forewarning.... ... i will be praying for your daughter and your family that this situation get resolved quickly.... and safely....

 

[Ekklesian]

why would you even say something like that?..... unless you were the same kind of disgusting piece of trash they were fleeing from?...... ...the 2 sisters i am speaking of were teenagers when their family brought them here to give them separation from both the man and the church who was party to the abuse.... about a year after i met them the younger of the 2 commited suicide.....

you sound like a defense lawyer i remember who tried to acuse a child of having been "an unusually promiscuous 5 year old".. in a court hearing that sent her mother and a few other perverts to jail.. ...he came very close to sharing some jail time with his clients ...... ...so why don;t you take your half naked pencil necked avatar... and your filthy imagination.... and scram....

I would say something like that because that's what I've seen. But I stand corrected by the new info.

It now sounds as if the family were fleeing their part in it.

But feel free to educate me more. What exactly happened and why were no charges brought? Understand, you only know what you were told, and I understand this is all hear-say. But proceed.

And, "pencil-necked"? You can see the neck? Musta been looking hard. But the avatar is Caravaggio's St. John the Baptist. (Don't clicke the link if seeing thigh triggers you.)

Painting Of The Week: Caravaggio, Saint John the Baptist

Caravaggio’s enormous influence on other artists played a vital role in the development of the Italian Baroque .Caravaggio Saint John the Baptist|Caravaggio’s enormous influence on other artists played a vital role in the development of the Italian Baroque .Caravaggio Saint John the Baptist

www.dailyartmagazine.com

 

[aleshanee]

I would say something like that because that's what I've seen. But I stand corrected by the new info.

It now sounds as if the family were fleeing their part in it.

But feel free to educate me more. What exactly happened and why were no charges brought? Understand, you only know what you were told, and I understand this is all hear-say. But proceed.

And, "pencil-necked"? You can see the neck? Musta been looking hard. But the avatar is Caravaggio's St. John the Baptist. (Don't clicke the link if seeing thigh triggers you.)

Painting Of The Week: Caravaggio, Saint John the Baptist

Caravaggio’s enormous influence on other artists played a vital role in the development of the Italian Baroque .Caravaggio Saint John the Baptist|Caravaggio’s enormous influence on other artists played a vital role in the development of the Italian Baroque .Caravaggio Saint John the Baptist

www.dailyartmagazine.com

.

whatever i know or don;t know about the things i wrote in the first paragraph of my post.... it;s still a lot more than you know about it.... ... which is more than you or carvaggio either one knew about saint john the baptist... or what he might have looked like...... .

and as for the second paragraph?..... that;s what i experienced and saw for myself as a 9 year old victim of sexual abuse during my mothers trial.... .

but do carry on with your attempts to slander and besmear victims of sexual abuse, and targets of unwanted attention from perverted pastors.... as well as your misguided defense of them....

and by the way..... i never said no charges were brought against that youth pastor i told about.... i said .... in respect for that families privacy... that i didn;t feel comfortable saying any more about their case.... .i only wrote what i did about it to explain how easy it was for predators to gain information about their intended victims without the victims knowledge or consent... .

 

[AverageJoe]

whatever i know or don;t know about the things i wrote in the first paragraph of my post.... it;s still a lot more than you know about it.... ... which is more than you or carvaggio either one knew about saint john the baptist... or what he might have looked like...... . .

and as for the second paragraph?..... that;s what i experienced and saw for myself as a 9 year old victim of sexual abuse during my mothers trial.... .

but do carry on with your attempts to slander and besmear victims of sexual abuse, and targets of unwanted attention from perverted pastors.... as well as your misguided defense of them....

and by the way..... i never said no charges were brought against that youth pastor i told about.... i said .... in respect for that families privacy... that i didn;t feel comfortable saying any more about their case.... .i only wrote what i did about it to explain how easy it was for predators to gain information about their intended victims without the victims knowledge or consent... .

To be honest, aleshanee, you're letting your past experiences cloud every situation of this sort...at least that's what it seems like. I can see Ekklesians point, and I can see yours as well. Not taking sides, just stating what it looks like from the outside. I've been a victim of abuse myself and know both sides of this issue quite well, as you do.

 

[Ransom]

Exactly. Blocked the text messages and his number.
Problem solved.

How do you know?

 

[aleshanee]

To be honest, aleshanee, you're letting your past experiences cloud every situation of this sort...at least that's what it seems like. I can see Ekklesians point, and I can see yours as well. Not taking sides, just stating what it looks like from the outside. I've been a victim of abuse myself and know both sides of this issue quite well, as you do.

.
thank you... ..but i feel he has done the same thing allowing his past experiences with other people cause him to make a false accusation against people he doesn;t even know..... .... i made a post about how easy it is for a predator to get private information on someone..... he redirected it and made it about himself by making that false and unwarranted accusation against 2 teenage girls that i referenced - ... then used his own "experience" as justification to declare them guilty of some hideous sin... ... he;s no different than any other pig headed male hyper-fundamentalist who either stalked, harassed or sexually abused women ...or defended someone who did.... then claimed it was all the fault of the women, and that they brought it on themselves....

it;s true that i really don;t know anything about the other side of these issues..... i have never been in his shoes obviosly.... but also never defended a predator.... and never tried to understand what would cause a man to automatically assume a victim of sexual abuse or even unwanted attention, must have done something to bring it upon herself... ...but if they had any idea how much damage that can do to someone dealing with these kinds of things... . i think they would decide to keep that opinion to themselves...... .. but then again... i am only hoping they would.... some people don;t care if they do further injury to someone who has already suffered enough... whether that suffering is past or present.....

 

[FundNoMore]

Exactly. Blocked the text messages and his number.
Problem solved.

Problem NOT solved. He will approach someone else. Take screen shots to Deacon board, have him removed as pastor. Contact ordination board and have his ordination revoked. He should never be in another pulpit or lead another church. THEN the problem will be handled. Not sure it will ever be solved.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

I don’t think anyone here is trying to attack FSSL in any manner, including in a backhanded way. I actually commend him. He cares and loves his daughter and is doing what any decent, Christian father would to protect her and assist her and her family. But in defense of some of the posters, we are discussing a married *adult* woman, not a kid. A screenshot of a text is great evidence of this jerk sending an isolated inappropriate message, but as a married man, my first question to my wife would be why she didn’t immediately block his number and delete him from any social media.

 

[aleshanee]

I don’t think anyone here is trying to attack FSSL in any manner, including in a backhanded way. I actually commend him. He cares and loves his daughter and is doing what any decent, Christian father would to protect her and assist her and her family. But in defense of some of the posters, we are discussing a married *adult* woman, not a kid. A screenshot of a text is great evidence of this jerk sending an isolated inappropriate message, but as a married man, my first question to my wife would be why she didn’t immediately block his number and delete him from any social media.

why?... did you get the same impression ekklesian did from the post i made?...... that the sisters must have done something to bring it on themselves?.... and why throw an assumption like that into a thread like this anyway.. ..at anybody or about anybody?...... and the fact the 2 girls i mentioned were kids makes his comments even more insidious.... made worse when he learned their age and doubled down on it ..trying to implicate their whole family.... . what was the purpose in that?..... was that your impression as well?.......

it;s very easy to sit back and pontificate about what should have been done... what should be done... or how you would handle it yourself if you or your family was in that situation.... but until you are there you are never know... and every situation is unique.... each one presents a different set of challenges and dangers....

so.... once again.... i only wrote what i did about them to answer you and fundnomore after you claimed to be confused about how a predatory pastor could gain the private information and phone numbers of a married woman without her knowledge or consent.... .. (really?... in the internet and hyper-information age?).... .... and i made that post in full support of fssl and his daughter.... .. but i have no idea what provoked ekklesians posts to me or about that family... ... but if he is that easily prompted to assume what he did.... and so many others here agree with him... . then maybe this is the wrong place to bring up anything concerning a female victim of a predatory pastor... no matter how old she is and regardless of her marital status...

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

why?... did you get the same impression ekklesian did from the post i made?...... that the sisters must have done something to bring it on themselves?...... and the fact the 2 girls i mentioned were kids makes his comments even more insidious.... and then when he learned that he doubled down on it and tried to implicate their whole family.... . what was the purpose in that?..... was that your impression as well?....... it;s very easy to sit back and pontificate about what should have been done... what should be done... or how you would handle it yourself if you or your family was in that situation....

once again i only wrote what i did about them to answer you and fundnomore after you claimed to be confused about how a predatory pastor could gain the private information and phone numbers of a married woman without her knowledge or consent.... .. (really?... in the internet and hyper-information age?).... .... and i made that post in full support of fssl and his daughter.... .. but i have no idea what provoked ekklesians posts to me or about that family... ... but if he is that easily prompted to assume what he did.... and so many others here agree with him... . then maybe this is the wrong place to bring up anything concerning a female victim of a predatory pastor... no matter how old she is and regardless of her marital status...

No, I don’t agree with his comments about the young girls. I’m referencing the adults.

 

[aleshanee]

No, I don’t agree with his comments about the young girls. I’m referencing the adults.

thank you.... but let me say one more thing..... as a female... when confronted or stalked by a predatory male... especially one with the influence and power that someone like a pastor has.... and a predator who obviously has no fear about who knows about it.... it is terrifying...... regardless of your numerical age it all goes out the window... why do you think she told her dad about it and asked for his help?...... sons might grow up and grow beyond a parents ability or need to defend them.... but a girl never stops being her fathers daughter..... ...no matter how old she is.....

 

[FSSL]

Ok, now I am confused. If none of you are part of the church, how did this "pastor" become aware of your daughter? How did he get her cell phone number? Was there a non church affiliated interaction?

She visited a couple of times... two years ago. I'm sure he had a visitor's card.

 

[FSSL]

That was my first thought too, it takes three seconds to hit “block” after getting an unwanted or inappropriate text. I thought he was her pastor based on the initial message, but apparently not, so why not block his butt right away?!?

She blocked him and told her husband right away.

 

[FSSL]

....but as a married man, my first question to my wife would be why she didn’t immediately block his number and delete him from any social media.

Part of our strategy is to "keep the enemy closer" right now. My daughter DID block him from Facebook and text messages. Her husband befriended him on Facebook. And HE ACCEPTED!!! He just found that he could use Instagram to reach her.

My other daughter works for the local police department and is one of his Facebook friends. So, we are developing a strategy and thinking through our confrontation.

 

[AverageJoe]

Part of our strategy is to "keep the enemy closer" right now. My daughter DID block him from Facebook and text messages. Her husband befriended him on Facebook. And HE ACCEPTED!!! He just found that he could use Instagram to reach her.

My other daughter works for the local police department and is one of his Facebook friends. So, we are developing a strategy and thinking through our confrontation.

This tactic leads to more questions than answers. Breaking ALL communication with the perpetrator is the best way to handle it...but, y'all do what you want. I've got many members of my family in law enforcement, and I have to say they think your approach is ludicrous.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

She blocked him and told her husband right away.

OK, I was just confused because your initial post was in the plural tense; i.e., “messages” and “screenshots.” I didn’t get the impression it was a single text and that she immediately blocked him afterwards. I hope everything works out favorably. This sounds like an odd situation.

 

[Ekklesian]

Problem NOT solved. He will approach someone else. Take screen shots to Deacon board, have him removed as pastor. Contact ordination board and have his ordination revoked. He should never be in another pulpit or lead another church. THEN the problem will be handled. Not sure it will ever be solved.

The problem is solved for the OP. Now let the others who are being texted solve their own problems with him and everyone else mind his own business.

 

[Ekklesian]

No, I don’t agree with his comments about the young girls. I’m referencing the adults.

For the record, I didn't say anything about young girls.

From what was said, it doesn't sound as if the parents were angelic in all this. If they didn't go public with this and call down the law, then it's usually because a light will be shined on their own evil deeds. Really? Fleeing the state to get away from a handsy guy that can go to jail--heck, lynched--for molesting kids? He's got something on them.

And what about the father? Innocent fathers of molested children don't run, and they aren't silent, and the perps run to the law for protection from them.

The fact they moved out of the state, and the now revealed subsequent and tragic suicide makes it look to me like there was something more going on, and they were lying about it.

If I'm wrong, tell the whole story. Change the names to protect their privacy if you're worried about it.

 

[aleshanee]

in this day and age of the internet and hyper-information services available at ones fingertips.... . it is very easy to take small - even vague and obscure bits of information and figure out who someone is... or who someone else is talking about.... (ever heard of signals intelligence?... i have family members who are experts in it)

you have indicated from the very first reply to me, that what i said about 2 sisters i met in a group therapy session... 20 years ago,..and which i stated from the first paragraph that their story ended in tragedy.... reminded you of people you knew in your own past.... and then you asserted the ones i knew must have been fleeing their own involvement in the "scandal"..... (your word... it was actually a crime).. in the same way the ones you knew did.... ....you wrote this.... word for word....

"Knowing some who've 'fled' a region after some scandal, this sounds more like they were 'fleeing' from their part in it."

you put the words fled and fleeing in quotation marks like there was supposed to be some other sinister meaning behind them.... i don;t know how you surmised that from what i said.... but whatever.... i;ll continue...

since that first exchange.... ..and based on very little information.... you have gone off on a deranged rant... making wild assumptions... even accusations... against the people i spoke of ... and in your last post you have fabricated an elaborate scenario about them... coming up with things i never implied or alluded to... in a way that leads me to believe you are the one who had some "involvement" with the people you remember from your past... and the person they might have been fleeing from was you....

now that;s me making a wild assumptions about you, based on something you said..... (how do you like it?).... so tell me the truth about what;s going on with you here... ..why have reacted to what i wrote about in such a way?.... .. did something in my post make you believe you know who they are?..... are they people you have bad memories of?..... maybe people you or your church have an ongoing grudge against?.......

and why did you imply that the information about the suicide was a new revelation?...... if you could surmise all this other stuff from things i did not say... why could you not figure out i was talking about a suicide.. when i said very plainly in the first paragraph i wrote about them, that their story ended in tragedy?..... and how could you also not know they were not adults when i said they were "girls"... and that it was over "2 decades ago"...... they came here "with their family" ....all that was in the very first paragraph i wrote about them..... but you appear to have completey disregarded it in order to go on your personal crusade..... .......

for all those reasons alone i don;t feel comfortable giving you any more information than what has already been posted..... ..... however..... ... and against my better judgement.... in order to help you cool your heels and maybe also assist others here who might be confused.. i will submit the following and leave it between you and God to handle it in a chrisitian manner......

for the record..... from what i was told.... these girls were new converts and both teenagers when they got invited to help in that VBS.... they had been saved at a different church from across the town they lived in..... and it was the first church they had ever been to..... of any kind..... from that i gathered that their family was unsaved and unchurched.... but who really knows?...they never told me that part.... . .. but they did say the youth pastor at the VBS church immediately began grooming them and eventually raped the younger sister.... then he attempted to rape the older one... charges were filed against him..... both churches put up a vigorous defense of him..... but he was convicted and went to jail..... (and not only convicted from what the girls testified to... but also based on prior complaints against him for sexual harrassment made by other women)... . .. after that both churches began a campaign of harassment against the family which even effected the parents jobs... even led to violence committed against them... .. in fear for the safety and wellbeing of their daughters and also their younger children they pulled up stakes and moved here to "get away from it all".... (their very words - i heard them speak in the session)....

after a few group sessions were less than helpful the doctors discontinued them, and i never saw the sisters again.... we all went back into individual private counselling..... ..the sisters and i did not keep up with each other because they were older than me.. and - other than these therapy sessions... we had very little else in common... .whereas they were seen as a suicide risk i had actually attempted it.. (still had stitches in both forearms at the time)... .. but i learned years later from my own counsellor that about a year after the meetings stopped the younger one had committed suicide and the family had moved away.... i do not know where they went, and even if knew i would not say ... like i said, though i don;t really know them i still don;t want them hurt further than they have already been....... . but i do know the family became very hostile towards all things regarding churches in general.... it was evident to me from the start from what the sisters said about their parents in therapy... and from what i learned through my counsellor it became worse as time went on.... they rejected all attempts to reach out to them.....

so does that help ease your mind in this matter?........ are you satisfied with this highjack down the rabbit trail that has nothing to do with why i made my original statement, explaining how easy it was for devious people to get private information on someone?.... and which also has very little to do with the thread?.... are you going to drop your assertion that they must have done something to bring it on themselves?...

now, if you want to discuss caravaggio, and his use of emaciated teenagers as models for paintings of biblical figures.... and whether or not i get "triggered" by paintings of pale and skinny legs - when my own are at least twice that thick.... (as an archer i also have bigger shoulders than he does too).... then we can start another thread dedicated to it..... but otherwise i am done with this subject... and i am sorry i ever got involved with it...

 

[Ekklesian]

in this day and age of the internet and hyper-information services available at ones fingertips.... . it is very easy to take small - even vague and obscure bits of information and figure out who someone is... or who someone else is talking about.... (ever heard of signals intelligence?... i have family members who are experts in it)

you have indicated from the very first reply to me, that what i said about 2 sisters i met in a group therapy session... 20 years ago,..and which i stated from the first paragraph that their story ended in tragedy.... reminded you of people you knew in your own past.... and then you asserted the ones i knew must have been fleeing their own involvement in the "scandal"..... (your word... it was actually a crime).. in the same way the ones you knew did.... ....you wrote this.... word for word....

"Knowing some who've 'fled' a region after some scandal, this sounds more like they were 'fleeing' from their part in it."

you put the words fled and fleeing in quotation marks like there was supposed to be some other sinister meaning behind them.... i don;t know how you surmised that from what i said.... but whatever.... i;ll continue...

since that first exchange.... ..and based on very little information.... you have gone off on a deranged rant... making wild assumptions... even accusations... against the people i spoke of ... and in your last post you have fabricated an elaborate scenario about them... coming up with things i never implied or alluded to... in a way that leads me to believe you are the one who had some "involvement" with the people you remember from your past... and the person they might have been fleeing from was you....

now that;s me making a wild assumptions about you, based on something you said..... (how do you like it?).... so tell me the truth about what;s going on with you here... ..why have reacted to what i wrote about in such a way?.... .. did something in my post make you believe you know who they are?..... are they people you have bad memories of?..... maybe people you or your church have an ongoing grudge against?.......

and why did you imply that the information about the suicide was a new revelation?...... if you could surmise all this other stuff from things i did not say... why could you not figure out i was talking about a suicide.. when i said very plainly in the first paragraph i wrote about them, that their story ended in tragedy?..... and how could you also not know they were not adults when i said they were "girls"... and that it was over "2 decades ago"...... they came here "with their family" ....all that was in the very first paragraph i wrote about them..... but you appear to have completey disregarded it in order to go on your personal crusade..... .......

for all those reasons alone i don;t feel comfortable giving you any more information than what has already been posted..... ..... however..... ... and against my better judgement.... in order to help you cool your heels and maybe also assist others here who might be confused.. i will submit the following and leave it between you and God to handle it in a chrisitian manner......

for the record..... from what i was told.... these girls were new converts and both teenagers when they got invited to help in that VBS.... they had been saved at a different church from across the town they lived in..... and it was the first church they had ever been to..... of any kind..... from that i gathered that their family was unsaved and unchurched.... but who really knows?...they never told me that part.... . .. but they did say the youth pastor at the VBS church immediately began grooming them and eventually raped the younger sister.... then he attempted to rape the older one... charges were filed against him..... both churches put up a vigorous defense of him..... but he was convicted and went to jail..... (and not only convicted from what the girls testified to... but also based on prior complaints against him for sexual harrassment made by other women)... . .. after that both churches began a campaign of harassment against the family which even effected the parents jobs... even led to violence committed against them... .. in fear for the safety and wellbeing of their daughters and also their younger children they pulled up stakes and moved here to "get away from it all".... (their very words - i heard them speak in the session)....

after a few group sessions were less than helpful the doctors discontinued them, and i never saw the sisters again.... we all went back into individual private counselling..... ..the sisters and i did not keep up with each other because they were older than me.. and - other than these therapy sessions... we had very little else in common... .whereas they were seen as a suicide risk i had actually attempted it.. (still had stitches in both forearms at the time)... .. but i learned years later from my own counsellor that about a year after the meetings stopped the younger one had committed suicide and the family had moved away.... i do not know where they went, and even if knew i would not say ... like i said, though i don;t really know them i still don;t want them hurt further than they have already been....... . but i do know the family became very hostile towards all things regarding churches in general.... it was evident to me from the start from what the sisters said about their parents in therapy... and from what i learned through my counsellor it became worse as time went on.... they rejected all attempts to reach out to them.....

so does that help ease your mind in this matter?........ are you satisfied with this highjack down the rabbit trail that has nothing to do with why i made my original statement, explaining how easy it was for devious people to get private information on someone?.... and which also has very little to do with the thread?.... are you going to drop your assertion that they must have done something to bring it on themselves?...

I will say that with that post you've changed my opinion on the entire matter. Now it sounds to me like you've made the story up.

now, if you want to discuss caravaggio, and his use of emaciated teenagers as models for paintings of biblical figures.... and whether or not i get "triggered" by paintings of pale and skinny legs - when my own are at least twice that thick.... (as an archer i also have bigger shoulders than he does too).... then we can start another thread dedicated to it..... but otherwise i am done with this subject... and i am sorry i ever got involved with it...

Do NOT google Michelangelo's 'David.'